morals, and the industry of the people; and which, notwithstanding the variety of interests, which seem to place insurmountable obstacles in the way, I doubt not to see effected. It is imagined the growth of corn and the revenue will be checked. I do not think this can happen; but even if it should, I would sacrifice both to the human species. Corn and revenue were made for the benefit of man—not man to be sacrificed to the increase of these; but tillage ' revenue can lose nothing by correcting this abuse. Consider the Aime lost in intoxication; consider the riots, the disorders, the liti gations that arise from this plenteous source of evil! It is absurd to suppose, that healthy, laborious men will not consume more corr as food, at the moment when they are by their industry contribu ting to the benefit of the state, than poor enervated wretches, poisoned and debilitated by the use of spirits.

As to the revenue, the real objection against reforming the abuse of spirits (and the only objection that ever I heard which had any real weight) is, that if you raise the duty beyond a certain point, you hold ont an encouragement to the clandestine distiller; but even this, I think, is not beyond the ability of parliament to obviate. Whatever is done to promote sobriety in this country, must be done by parliament. Parliament, by the gin act in England, sobered England; and why may not we do the same in Ireland? Though there are local differences between the countries, yet there cannot exist such essential ones as would bespeak in the people of Ireland an indomitable dissoluteness, or in the Parliament of Ireland total incapacity.

There are four measures, by the combination whereof I think this may be effected: a tax on the malt; a further tax on the distillery, and the disallowance of drawbacks; a very heavy expense for license; and a tax upon retailers.

The first of these measures it may be feared would injure the brewery; but to guard the brewery from injury, and to promote its interest, is, in my opinion, a primary object of the reform.

It will be for the consideration of the committee, whether it is not advisable to take away the present excise on beer and ale totally and entirely, and throw the whole duty which either is to pay on the malt, making that duty less than what is now paid by the brewer, so as to give your brewery a decided encouragement and advantage over any foreign brewery, or any home-made spirit. In so doing, you free your brewery, which I think indispensably necessary, from the injudicious restraints now imposed on it. You free the brewer om all restraint as to price or quantity of material. and you

permit him to make the most of his materials, by selling both beer and ale if he chooses; by lowering the duty, you give a spirit to a trade which now declines, and you will thereby give to the consymer a cheaper and better beverage, and furnish nourishment in the place of poison, which is one way of preventing its consumption. Your committee will then consider of some further measure to check the consumption of whiskey, beside the encouragement of malṭ liquors. It may possibly appear eligible to have, without drawback, and in addition to the malt tax as above stated, a certain ex cise on the distiller, and to add further a very high tax on the license, and, perhaps, another tax on the retail,

I

Besides the measures which I have mentioned, I would endeavour to interest the magistrates and gentlemen of the country. The revenue can never be collected by any number of officers, if the gentlemen of the country do not countenance and support them. would have in every district superintending magistrates, with power to inflict immediate penalties; to report to the quarter sessions (perhaps on oath) the number of stills and of retailers in their district; and I would give to the sessions a power of punishing with severity crimes committed against the revenue.

In settling the excise on spirits, it should be raised so high, if possible, as to put them out of the reach of the mechanic and the labourer, taking care, at the same time, to provide him with a cheap and wholesome beverage; in order to which, the excise and every restriction should be taken off the brewery; no tax on brewing should be suffered to remain, save only that paid on the malt. The brewer, like every other manufacturer, should be left to himself to prepare his goods in the best manner his skill could suggest; neither should he be tied to any price. All this may be done with the utmost safety; his profits may always depend on the quantity of his manufacture consumed; the consumption will depend on the quality of that manufacture, and therefore it would become his interest that the quality should be the best.

By adopting these measures, Sir, you would have an opportunity of reducing the number of excise-officers. By the return made to this House last year, it appeared that their number exceeded 800; which, reckoning their salaries and fees (fees more oppressive to the subject than salaries) cannot be estimated at less than £100 per man, or £80,000 in the whole. If to these you add the incidents and the expense of check officers, you cannot suppose the gross amount to make less than £100,000 paid for collecting £270,000. This, I think, is the strongest case that can be made out to induce the

House not only to remove the evil of poisoning the people, but the evil of collecting a revenue from that poison.

If, Sir, those measures, after being well matured and digested by the House, shall be adopted, and if any defalcation shall happen in consequence, the House is not without a remedy-a lottery (if such be in contemplation). Let the lottery which is applied to the cur rent service of the year, be applied to make good any defalcation in the revenue; but while I recommend this application of a lottery, I would not be supposed to be a friend to insurance. I believe the city has suffered as much by insurance as the country has by whiskey.

The motion was supported by Sir Lucius O'Brien, Mr. Denis Browne, and Mr. J. Beresford, and unanimously agreed to.

On this day (2nd February) the committee sat, Mr. David Latouche in the chair. Mr. Grattan brought forward the plan he had in contempiation, and spoke as follows:

We are agreed that no false alarm for revenue or agriculture shall stand in the way of the proceedings in this committee. We are agreed to banish the present excessive use of spirituous liquors, without regard to the pretended interests of the crown, the farmer, or the distiller. We must also be agreed that the principal cause is, the low price, and that the only remedy Parliament can interpose is, to raise that price by augmentation of duty. It was weakly suggested, that the use of spirituous liquors was decreasing under the operation of the present laws; and that, in the course of time, the present laws could correct the evil.

1

But what are the papers before you? A consumption of 3,000,000 of gallons of whiskey, above 1,000,000 of gallons of rum, and near 300,000 of gallons of brandy, beside a great indefinite quantity o. the first of these liquors that is not comprehended in your papers, because illicit. It appears from those papers, that the number licenses to sell spirits is about 8,000; the number of houses in Ireland, by the best returns, is calculated at 640,000, and by returns of different parishes, it appears that nearly every seventh house is a whiskey shop; that is about 90,000. The license is £5 in cities, and £3 in counties. Now, if every one of the houses selling spirits paid for their license, the revenue would be near £300,000 for licenses only; it is now £32,000. Hence, judge what a quantity of spirit is sold against law; and you have already seen what a quantity is sold under law. It is, therefore, weak and fallacious to hold out the present laws as likely to correct the excessive use of spirituous liquors. It becomes therefore necessary to interfere, and in

terfere by laying high duties. The object of those duties must be to prohibit the lower orders of the people from the consumption of spirits, and the quantum of those duties at least, in the first instance, such as may approach to, but not equal the duties on foreign spirits. The excise is now fourteen pence per gallon, of which six pence is drawn back on account of the malt tax. If you stop the drawback, you add at once six pence per gallon to the spirit, which will, with the malt tax, make the whole duty amount to about twenty pence add to that, such further excise as the committee shall think neces<< sary to raise the price too high for ordinary consumption. But it will be also necessary to regulate the granting of licenses, and to take from the commissioners that power, and lodge it with the quarter sessions, who shall have authority to withdraw those licenses; and in the interval of the quarter sessions, I would give to the justices of the peace a power of suspending them. It will also be proper to oblige the person taking out a license to enter into a recognizance for the order and regularity of his house; and it will be further necessary to confine licenses to a certain description of housekeepers, that the number may not be excessive, and that the person selling liquor may be a responsible publican. There is, therefore, a resolution to this purpose, conceived in general terms, that the bill founded on these resolutions may more particularly set forth. It is also necessary, in order to prevent the unlicensed sale of spirits, to give the magistrates new and summary powers, with regard to all persons selling unlicensed liquor: but as all this is only experimental, there is a final resolution, expressing the propriety of such a committee as this, the opening of the next session, sitting to inquire into the effect of our measures, and take such further steps as may be found requisite.

Whatever is adopted with regard to spirituous liquors would be imperfect, indeed, if nothing was done in advancement of the breweries. The state of your brewery, on a comparison with its state thirty years ago, is that of a rapid decline; the decrease is about one-third: increase of importation nearly two-thirds; whereas, your increase of intoxication, that is, your increase of the consumption of whiskey, in the course of twenty years, appears to be as 700 to 3,000,000. Judge from this growth of poison, and this decline of nutriment, how necessary the interference of parliament to sustain the latter, as well as to check the former. Your breweries labour under many disadvan tages. Dear and inferior barley is one; a prohibition against hops from Flanders (a prohibition which you ought now to take off another; the superiority of the mait liquor of England, which daily

increases upon you, another; also duties, which are too high, and extraordinary regulations, which are wrong in principle, and which have proved in experiment to be mischievons.

I have, therefore, submitted with respect to brewery; first, a re solution declaring it requires decisive encouragement: secondly, resolution declaring, that the duties should be reduced, and the restrictions taken off: and, thirdly, a resolution declaring, that these ends were best answered by taking the whole excise off beer and ale, and laying a moderate duty on malt. I have digested this idea into three resolutions, because I do not wish to embark the fate of the redress of the brewery on the event of a malt-tax; at the same time I am clear that you will at last, if you do not now, see the wisdom of entirely and absolutely repealing the whole excise on beer and ale. The present system cannot be justified. It is expensive in collection, small in production, and in little and vexatious restrictions and penalties, abundant.

The malt-tax is now £116,000, collected at considerable expense of officers; the drawback is about £100,000, so that the tax nets about £16,000 a year. The excise of beer and ale, after deducting the drawback on account of malt, is about £60,000. The number of officers employed to collect this, with the other inland excises, is about 800. See, then, what a multitudinous system of expensive collection, and what a miserable production. Take off, therefore, the whole excise on beer and ale, and with it banish some of those idle officers, and all those idle restraints and regulations which affect the brewer in every part of his process, as well as in the ingredients thereof. I will suppose you to take off the excise, and lay six pence a stone on the malt. I do not say, you ought, by any means, to lay so much; but if government will not consent to less, yet see even on that duty how the brewer will stand; supposing six stone and a half to a barrel of beer, he will pay three shillings and three pence per barrel, whereas he now pays four shillings and one penny.

There is another advantage attending the transfer of the excise to the malt that you will then bring the home-spirit much more under the control of your regulations; because, when such a tax is laid on the malt, as will take place if the whole excise on beer i taken off, whatever is kept of excise on the distiller, will have more operation. He will first pay a malt tax, he will then pay an excise which, being less, will in so much diminish the temptation to smuggle, whüe, on the whole, he pays such duties as greatly raise the price of the spirit. I shall now read the resolution, observing, that, in my opinion, the revenue will be increased thereby; but I am very