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| lus, which had caused extensive agricul tural speculations; and a series of abun dant crops ensuing, created the glut which existed at this moment. When the price of corn was high, or sufficient to remunerate the farmer, he laid out considerable sums on his lands, and was content to pay a heavy rent. But when corn fell in value to any great extent, the capital which he was expected to lay out, and the rent he was obliged to pay, were out of all proportion to what he received. The law of 1815, led to the most injurious consequences. It induced the farmer, in the first instance, to incur an immense expense, for which, it was pretty clear, he would not be finally remunerated. When the farmer was thus situated, he would deal hardly with the land. He would extract as much as he could from it, at the least possible expense; he would impoverish it, and in that state it would revert to the landowner. Agricultural labour was also affected by the system on which the bill of 1815 was founded. Labour, in the

manifest injustice to the public creditor. But, supposing it possible to remit taxes to that extent, would not the subtracting such a sum from the revenue, and consequently from the circulation of the country, add to the prevailing distress, instead of diminishing it? The hon. member for Corfe-castle had drawn a very feeling picture of the wretched state in which the agricultural labourer would be placed, if he were compelled to exchange the pure air which he usually breathed, for the fetid atmosphere of a manufactory. But, might be not look at the other side, and ask, how was it possible for the manufacturer, who had been all his life accustomed to breath the close air of a factory, to perform work which required all its exertions out of doors? The interest of both those classes were bound up together, and whatever tended to injure the one could not benefit the other. The last corn bill gave a sufficient protection to the agriculturist. He thought they ought to depart as little as possible from that measure; and therefore he should vote for the proposition of the noble mar-long run, must bear some proportion to quis.

Sir J. Shelley thought the proposition of the noble marquis would do some good, and that it was at all events better than the existing state of the corn laws.

Mr. Whitmore conceived the great cause of the present distress to be overproduction. Not that he imagined, when a country stood in a natural situation, that an abundant crop could be considered an evil. In ordinary cases, where there was a large growth of corn in one part of the world, there was a defective crop in another, and the prices in consequence equallized themselves. But this was not at present the case. The circumstances of the war gave a considerable stimulus to agricultural speculations; corn was grown, at an immense expense, on poor soils; it produced very high prices; and the price of every article connected with farming was raised in proportion. The amount of capital employed, when prices were high, was, therefore, much greater than when prices were low. The capital employed in cultivating 100 acres of land in 1790, 1803, and 1813, was widely different. The amount of capital employed in the last period, as compared with the first, was no less than double. Large quantities of corn were grown during the war at a great expense. The effect of the bill of 1815 was, to keep up the stimu

the price of food. When food was high, it produced a fair remuneration for the labourer; but when food was very low, and the farmer in distress, he did all he could to economise, and his first step was to reduce the price of labour below what it ought to be. It was clear, therefore, that the labourer did not benefit by the low price of corn. With respect to the amount of duty in the noble lord's resolution, he thought it too high. The resolution of the hn. member for Portarling ton was liable to the same objection. But he preferred the latter on account of its tendency to give steadiness to prices.

Mr. Western said, the more he considered the question, the more he was convinced that this was not the proper time to legislate upon it. No member had clearly comprehended the whole bearing of the actual circumstances of the country, or the consequences of enacting a permanent law in our present unsettled state. The most vague ideas prevailed on the subject of our difficulties. He would take the premises of those who supported the resolutions, and would show that they did not warrant the conclusion to which they had come. If, as they asserted, every country of Europe teemed with a superabundant produce, and if the markets were in an unnatural state of depression, was this the time to proceed to the forma

tion of permanent protecting duties? A scale of prices adapted to present circumstances might be too high for permanent protection; and a permanent scale might be insufficient in the existing state of the markets of Europe. Were not the prices of corn on the continent, for the last twenty-five years, estimated in our paper currency, and, therefore, liable to all ́its Auctuations? Were not the Dantzic prices regulated by the state of the British markets, and therefore affected by the depreciation of our currency? Would it not, then, be unwise to look at those prices as the foundation of any prospective regulation? He was prepared to contend now, as he had often done, that the present state of the currency was incompatible with the safety of the country. He would follow the advice of the hon. member for Corfe-castle, and refuse to legislate permanently, until he could form a clearer judgment of what measure ought to be adopted.

Mr. Alderman Heygate thought the proposed measures of the noble marquis would do more mischief to the agriculturists than that under which they now laboured. Something, however, should be done, and it was only in consideration of the necessity of the case that he could be brought to vote in favour of any protecting duty. The propositions before

the House were so numerous and so complicated, that it was difficult to understand them. He was most inclined to the plan of the hon. member for Cumberland; but he would vote for no plan which did not contain a clause to remit the duty in the event of the price of corn rising so high as to indicate the approach of scarcity. Mr. Ricardo denied that the price of corn on the continent was liable to the fluctuations of our currency.

The committee then divided on lord Althorp's Amendment, to fix a permanent duty of 18s. on wheat, and other grain in proportion: For the Amendment 24. Against it 201.

List of the Minority.

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long before to have known, that in certain prove satisfactory to the House. He was districts of the south of Ireland there had far from being one of those who wished been a great failure in the crop of potatoes, to shelter themselves under general theowhich had produced most extensive dis- ries, but their lordships must be aware, tress. Though it afforded much grati- that no subject could be more delicate fication to him to find that liberal sub- than that of the interference of governscriptions for relieving the distress had ment with the subsistence of the country. been entered into, still it appeared to him He would only wish them for a moment matter of imputation on ministers, that to consider, what might be the consenot only they seemed now to be taking no quence of such a principle-how much it measure to remove the distress, but, in- might operate in counteracting the exerformed as they must have been of its rise tions of private benevolence, and to what and progress, they had done nothing to mischievous results such a meddling with prevent it from reaching its present the natural means of supplying the market aggravated form. He wished, therefore, might lead. Impressed with this princito ask the noble earl what measures ple, he did not hesitate to say, that when government had adopted? The distress government received information of the of a part of Ireland had risen to a most local distress in Ireland, he was anxious calamitous height, without the least that whatever aid it should appear advisapparent attention being paid to it by able to afford, might be conveyed without government. It had been observed, that the transaction becoming a subject of the application of the public money to public notice in parliament. This was the purchase of corn in this country was not the first time that such a case had contrary to the principles of political occurred in Ireland, and that government economy; but he thought that the million had found it necessary to interfere. It which was to have had that destination was to be expected, therefore, that in would be with more propriety employed what was now done former precedents in relieving the distress of Ireland. He would be followed. There was no reason held in his hand a letter from a gentleman to suppose that the subject had been in the county of Clare, on whose correct- overlooked. He had on a former occaness their lordships might rely. The sion stated that it had engaged the serious writer said, "The distress here is beyond attention of government, and he had now all possible description. There is nothing no hesitation in saying, not only that but starvation in every corner of the measures would be taken to relieve the country, and it appears impossible to distress, but had already been taken, on remedy it. Unfortunately, government, principles as unobjectionable as possible. to whom repeated and strong applications These measures were adopted with the have been made, has as yet done nothing; view, not only of meeting the present and if relief do at last come, it will now distress, but of preventing its recurrence, arrive too late." Such was the state- by supplying seed. With regard to the ment to which he wished to call their address, he should have no objection to lordships' serious attention. If the pic- agree to it when the proceedings to which ture was not overcharged as he was per- it referred were terminated; but, in the suaded it was not, what could their lord-present state of the business, the producships think of the conduct of ministers? In one part of the united empire they were told that superabundance was the only cause of complaint, while in another the people were actually starving. If the answer of the noble earl opposite did not prove satisfactory, he should propose an address to his majesty, for the purpose of obtaining information on this important subject. The bounty of individuals would doubtless do much good; but if the distress was so extensive as it was described, nothing but the interference of government could produce relief.

The Earl of Liverpool trusted, that the explanation which he had to give would

tion of the correspondence would be attended with much inconvenience.

The Marquis of Lansdown, though agreeing with the noble earl as to the inexpediency of interfering with the supply of provisions to the markets, was still of opinion, that the case of the suffering poor, in the part of Ireland alluded to, formed an exception to any general rule, and that it was incumbent upon their lordships to take care that every thing was done that could be done for the relief of the unhappy sufferers. That the distress was most afflicting, all the accounts from the south-west of Ireland agreed in stating, and the information he

Lord Ellenborough said, it would be satisfactory if the noble earl would state how long it was since the government began to afford relief to the suffering population of Ireland, and to what extent that relief had been afforded.

The Earl of Liverpool said, he was unable to state to what extent the relief had been afforded; but it was some weeks since that money had been sent for the purpose of purchasing provisions for those who were destitute; and measures had also been taken to provide seed, in order to prevent, as far as possible, a recurrence of the distress.

had received, pourtrayed a state of distributed immediately, and the remaining tress, in the county of Clare in particular, three applied as local circumstances should which imperatively called for the imme- require. diate application of some remedy. It was not merely, however, in that county, but in the mountainous district adjoining, that the distress was to a great extent prevalent; and he had some time since, on receiving information of the state of that part of the country, sent instructions to purchase oatmeal, and to sell it an inferior price in the distressed districts. The warmest acknowledgments were due to those individuals who had so liberally came forward in aid of the suffering population of Ireland; but he trusted that their highly meritorious liberality would not slacken the exertions of the Irish proprietors, and that the latter would not subscribe money instead of affording that relief which would be so much more effectual, and which they had the best means of affording a supply of articles of food. He was averse to any interference with the supply of provisions, but it should be recollected that this was not the case of a general scarcity, but merely the failure or scarcity of one article of food, and that of the lowest gradation in the scale. This, therefore, formed an exception to general rules; and there was this fact in addition, that by confining the supply as much as possible to the next article in gradation, the purpose in view would be answered, without interfering with the markets for any other article of produce.

The Earl of Blesinton supported the address. He stated the number of the starving population in the county of Clare to be 48,507. The distress was of no recent origin. It had been going on for a considerable time, and so strongly was it felt, that when he applied in 1819 to the archbishop of Tuam for his subscription to defray the expense of a statue to be erected to the memory of his late majesty, his grace answered, that he rather wished the money to be applied to the relief of the starving people of Ireland. Distress was not exclusively felt in the south and west of Ireland. In the county of Donegall there was no want of food, but of money to buy it. Money and capital were the things wanted. If the people were fed, without being provided with employment, mischief would ensue. If it were wished to do good to Ireland, a large sum must be given, at least five millions; two of which should be dis

The Earl of Limerick observed, that any ministry who could have neglected the consideration of the distressed state of Ireland, would have been deserving of public execration. But the contrary was the fact in this instance. The noble earl had stated, that measures had been resorted to, and were now in progress for the relief of the distress, and relying with confidence upon that declaration, he should oppose the address.

Earl Grey could not discover any ground for that confidence which the noble earl was so disposed to place in ministers. They had authentic accounts, the truth of which could not be disputed, that the population of Ireland, from whence large supplies of grain were drawn to England, were, a great part of them at least, in state of distress bordering upon famine, and yet there was no trace of any aid furnished by government for the mitigation of this dreadful calamity. What a picture of a government! Hundreds and thousands of the population of Ireland dying in the streets and highways for want of food, in the midst of plenty, and we were merely told by the king's ministers, that measures were in contemplation to afford relief! Was this a ground for refusing support to the address? On the contrary, that House ought to be informed of what had been done (if any thing had been done) for the alleviation of this dreadful distress; and if it should turn out that nothing effectual had been done, they should wrest from the hands of incapable men that power which they knew not how to use for the advantage of the country.

Lord Ellenborough trusted that his noble friend would carry his motion to a division.

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Lord Holland said, that the information alluded to by the noble duke was unsatisfactory, inasmuch as no dates were mentioned by which alone the House could be enabled to judge whether the proper means had been adopted in proper time for the relief of the distress.

The Earl of Liverpool said, he could not at the moment recollect the dates; but it was some weeks since that the relief was afforded in money to purchase food; and, subsequently, seed had been supplied, in order to prevent a recurrence of the distress.

The Earl of Lauderdale contended, that the admissions of the noble earl were sufficient to induce him to vote for the address; as it was evident that the relief was not afforded in time, especially with regard to seed, which ministers ought to have known was long since required, and that the time they had chosen for supplying it was too late to be of any real

use.

The House divided; For the Address 17. Against it 35.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Friday, May 10.

ROMAN CATHOLIC PEERS BILL.] On the motion of Mr. Canning, the order of the day was read for the second reading of the Catholic Peers bill.

Mr. T. A. Smith said, he felt it his duty to address a few observations to the House on this particular measure, but on the general question he would not say one word. With all the respect which he had for the wonderful talents and splendid eloquence of the right hon. member who had introduced the bill, he could not help looking on this measure as a most extraordinary one. He thought the measure most unfair, most unjust, towards the great body of the Catholics: he thought it most aristocratic in its principle; for

what could be more aristocratic than to grant a boon to the peers, and to leave the commoners in their existing situation? On a former evening he had paid the most sedulous attention to the hon. mover's speech. He had listened to it with impatience, not unmixed with alarm, after what had fallen from the hon. member for Somersetshire, lest he should be captivated by the voice of the Syren. But the charm of that address, whatever it might have been, had been completely removed by the speech of the right hon. secretary. If he knew any thing of the subject, the measure of the right hon. member was not pleasing even to the most zealous advocates of Catholic emancipation. He had hoped to see it rejected by a large majority; but he supposed that the right hon. attorney-general for Ireland, finding that he could not prevent the motion from being brought forward, had thought it better to express his approbation of it, than to meet it by moving the previous question, as he had been expected by many to do. If the right hon. attorney-general was sincere in the approbation he expressed, why had he not brought forward the general measure at once? For certainly the general measure, backed by securities, would have come better to the House than the measure now brought forward. He must express his hope, that many members who had supported this measure at first, would, upon consideration, agree in the propriety of its postponement, until they came to a vote on the general question. The question, as it now stood, was not whether the story of Titus Oates was false or not, whether Charles 2nd was a Catholic, or whether the Catholics were unjustly deprived of their privileges or not; but it was, whether, because they were lords, they ought to be restored to their privileges instanter? But if ever a time should arise when such securities were offered as would be deemed sufficient in the opinion of his right hon. friend (Mr. Peel), and would induce him to relax his opposition, then, and not till then, would he accede to the concession.

Mr. Wetherell said, that upon all former occasions he had been an opponent of the measure, termed Catholic emancipation; and whatever objections, founded upon what he conceived to be the just and wise policy, and the real principles of the constitution, had upon former occasions appeared to him to be fairly available against

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