lower grade for sake of the upper as the funds available are never satisfactorily large in any case. It seems that it might have been a wise policy for those states which have established both a university and an agricultural and mechanical college to have created at the university a strong professional school of engineering and reserved distinctly the mechanical college for work of the lower grade. The location of these schools is, however, often not favorable for economically doing this work. It has happened, too, in some cases that the agricultural and mechanical colleges have received a more adequate support than the universities and have found it desirable to advance the work to the higher grade. Naturally all faculties desire to do the higher work, with the result that all are trying to do the same work and none the lower grade. Not a few of our schools have thus been perverted from the purpose of the founder, or of the law-making body establishing the school. It is indeed probable that the Morrill act itself contemplated something very different from the engineering schools that have for the most part actually resulted from this legislation. Apparently the Carnegie schools, at least, will be a brilliant exception to this rule.

Are we not too ambitious and have, as a result, moved forward in so nearly parallel lines as to leave a big gap that almost no one is willing to fill? The state must do this in some way if it is to be done. Mr. Carnegie has touched a vast number of communities with his inspiring wand, but in such matters as these Carnegie belongs to Pittsburg alone. Such schools should naturally be located in large cities and industrial cen

ters and might either be supported by the state or by the city with a certain amount of state aid, as in the case of other departments of the public school system. The state of Wisconsin lends aid to counties in the establishment of county agricultural schools and county training schools for teachers; and a similar arrangement for local technical schools would seem to be entirely fair, as the state at learge reaps a decided benefit. Whether such a school or schools could wisely be included in the public high school system is doubtful, although not impossible. In such a case special courses must be arranged, with perhaps one or two of the first years' work similar to the present high school course. Thereafter the course would necessarily be special, and with no expectation to be used as preparatory to college or professional school. Its aim should be special from start to finish. A fair beginning has already been made in this direction in the business courses provided in many cities, but the efforts in the technical direction have been feeble and of little value. In large cities a separate building and separate school, but not more than one, would in most cases be preferable and economical. In this school there should be included the technical work, the business course, night school work, and in many cases trade schools of a nature depending upon the industries of the locality. Already one state at least, California, has begun this work in the establishment of a so-called polytechnic school at San Luis Obispo, where three-year courses are given in agriculture, mechanics and domestic science, taking students directly from the grammar schools. The course in mechanics includes: English, history, freehand and mechanical

drawing, algebra, geometry, trigonometry, botany, bookkeeping, physical science, chemistry, physics, architectural drawing, carpentry, forging and blacksmithing and electrical working. Outside of the summer school courses already mentioned this school is, so far as the author knows, the first attempt of a state to support a technical school of a secondary grade.

Let each state now possessing a good engineering school see to it that it is adequately supported, and as soon as possible put on a high grade professional basis. In my opinion it is fortunate for this school if it is located at the state university and certainly it is fortunate for the university. But while doing this let the state also render its aid in the establishment of one or more secondary technical schools placed in central locations with respect to its main industries, the great industry of agriculture to be given full consideration. The school of engineering could then devote itself to training for the profession unhampered by many of the drawbacks under which it now labors. The entrance requirements could in fairness be placed higher than at present and gradually more or less college work could be required. The study of algebra, trigonometry, English and the foreign languages has no place in the curriculum of a professional course, but under present circumstances it would be unfair to the young men of the state for these studies to be required for entrance without in some way providing for a course where the requirements are less severe. With such provision made we would ultimately have on the one hand genuine professional schools with instruction in charge of the best talent, each man an expert in his

line, and a course of four years devoted exclusively to scientific and professional instruction. And on the other hand there would be a system of secondary technical schools, maintained distinctly for mechanics and artisans, and adapted to the needs of the locality. The result would be greatly to increase the supply of trained men, to the great advantage of the industrial interests of the state.

DISCUSSION.

PROFESSOR WM. G. RAYMOND: There are a great many points made in this last paper that are very valuable and ought to be touched upon. I want to speak upon only one. I wonder if you heard Dean Turneaure say "individual instruction"? I wonder if you heard "eight hours a day"? Professor Johnson said it could not be done, but his successor seems to be doing it. I told you in Pittsburg I felt like a voice crying in the wilderness.

PROFESSOR ARTHUR L. WILLISTON: Sooner or later, it seems to me, that those who are interested in technical education in this country have got to face the question of providing the right kind of specialization in technical education to keep abreast with the industrial specialization which is going on everywhere at such a tremendous pace. A generation ago it was argued that one type of education was necessary for all purposes. A general classical course, it was claimed, was all that was necessary. Some of us at that time thought differently and took exception to that theory. We believed that while the individual was being broadened and educated, he might be trained in the direction of his life work as well and greatly to his advantage. The

soundness of this argument has been demonstrated by experience. But the same argument leads us to the inevitable conclusion that wherever there is a large body of young men who want to prepare themselves for any particular industry, that it is wise and profitable to establish highly specialized courses of instruction especially for them. Thus, in the vicinity of Pittsburg, for example, courses of instruction in steel manufacture and in foundry practice would be appropriate.

PROFESSOR C. A. WALDO: A number of years ago, Charles O. Thompson made some investigations in Germany along the line of technical education for the United States Commissioner of Education. Assisting in that investigation, I visited the Weavers' School at Saxony and admired greatly its organization, its direct and definite purpose in the economy of the country. That experience at that time has kept me awake to movements looking towards the trades education of our own people. It has seemed to me that the public institutions have steered clear, or fought shy, of that kind of technical education for the people, and I think the reason for it is easily found. Many of our large colleges and universities, especially in the west, being so-called state institutions, are dependent for their support upon the good will of the people, and must look out for the labor vote. Trades unions fear the effect of trades schools and are inclined to oppose them. In talking with Professor Brashear about the Carnegie School in Pittsburg the question came up as to how Mr. Hamerschlag, who is in charge, would be able to get around that difficulty in his organization, and I was told that he had done it very skillfully. He brought together at