design later on. In a great many institutions these branches of mechanics are not sufficiently presented for electrical engineers.

In physics there should be not only all the usual undergraduate work but also work in higher electrical measurements including questions of capacity, selfinduction and mutual induction.

In statical structures the electrical engineer should have sufficient insight to consider the subject with respect to foundations, which are so important for his machinery.

In surveying, if there is time, it would be a good thing for the electrical engineer not only to take the theory of leveling but also begin on railroad surveying, so as to be familiar at least with the ordinary simple surveying instruments.

On page 103 in the report under electrical drawing are given "shades, shadows and perspectives." These should be mechanical drawing instead. Although I think they are very useful, if the curriculum is crowded I think the electrical engineer could dispense with the subjects of "shades, shadows and perspectives" easier than any other portion of drawing.

In chemistry I think the electrical engineer should have, as is mentioned in the report here, a very practical course that should at least go through qualitative analysis. Although it would certainly be of advantage to have quantitative analysis included, this latter could be omitted if the curriculum is too crowded.

As to mineralogy, geology and botany, mentioned on page 112, botany in a great many places is required for entrance, and is disposed of, therefore, in that way.

M

Mineralogy and geology are usually omitted from an electrical engineer's requirements.

As to machine designing, the electrical man should be given sufficient insight if possible to be of assistance in dynamo design and alternator design, and also go quite deeply into the questions of engine governors and fly wheel effect, because these are important in the paralleling of alternators.

Referring to page 114, I think what is mentioned at the beginning, surveying, should be included. The general subject of railroad engineering is at present not only of interest, but almost a necessity, to the electrical man. He should know and be familiar with train, grades and curve resistances, and also the principles of designing the ordinary electrical machinery for the present trolley car because that is nowadays used in interurban work. The electrical roads between cities and in cities themselves cannot be handled entirely by civil or mechanical engineers, for the equipment necessitates an electrical engineer more or less familiar with some of the mechanical and railroad details.

When it comes to hydraulic engineering, in order to gain as much time as possible, I think the electrical man might omit canal construction and the improvement of rivers and harbors. He should however include the capacity of streams for power development, besides a discussion of turbines and water wheels with descriptions of their manufacture and installation.

In regard to subjects which are apparently lumped under electrical engineering and power in the scheme presented and make a total of two thousand hours, I think that the electrical man graduating from a college

or university should have had in some way or another the theoretical and fundamental principles in all of these subjects: Elements of electrical engineering, dynamo, electric power, railways, lighting, telegraphy, telephony and central stations.

There should be an insight into electro-chemistry and metallurgy, as the electrical engineer must understand primary and storage batteries.

The purely theoretical subjects, including mathematical treatment should include alternating currents, theory of electricity and electro-mechanics.

In the ordinary undergraduate course I doubt if there is time to give anything but an insight into designing. I doubt if there can be gotten out of the student any real designing that would be of value to him. Consequently, though some of you may think that perhaps I have outlined a rather heavy course, there will still be left a good deal and a good many hours for post-graduate work as in designing in the various departments of direct and alternating currents, transformers, converters and various direct and alternating current motors, besides the larger work of plant installation.

There is one other point I want to touch upon, page 122, and that is the conclusion of the committee: "Such degrees as are given should be expressive of scholastic training rather than business titles. Any man is a civil engineer who practices civil engineering, and until the practice of this profession is controlled by law as is the practice of medicine, very little value will be attached to the degree of civil engineer."

When they raise the point in regard to degrees, of course everybody has his own opinion as to what de

grees should be given. The statement regarding the course of the civil engineer I suppose is intended to also apply to other engineers-that would mean mechanical and electrical engineers. At present there is the criticism which is properly made in the report that these degrees may not have any appreciable value and any action this Society could see its way clear to take that would increase the value of these degrees, I for one would feel very grateful for. At present the M.D. degree given the physician is a recognized ståndard, but while the physician does have a certain amount of practical and laboratory work and has a certain amount of clinical and hospital work, yet everybody knows he is not a full-fledged practicing physician the instant he graduates, so that the engineering degrees should not be taken as intimating that the graduate holding them is a practicing engineer. Even if the universities do give degrees of electrical, mechanical and civil engineer everybody knows that the holders are just beginning their life work and that if they are not students by nature the fact of giving them degrees will not make them very great engineers. Yet, however, it seems to me that the mere B.S. degree, with the present arrangement of the curriculum, is perhaps not exactly fair to the man who has done this extra technical work. I do not think there is any doubt in anybody's mind that the engineering degree nowadays means more work than the B.S. degree which used to be given years ago for scientific attainments. Besides the scientific attainment there must be a certain amount of technical knowledge added and that means the degree is much more valuable and might properly indicate as much.

In conclusion, I want to state that the minimum, placed by the committee, of seventy-two hundred hours for the total amount of work done I think is rather a happy one since it corresponds very closely with the eighteen hours work a week,counting laboratory one hour and allowing two hours for preparation for each lecture or quiz hour. Of course, the minimum number of hours any university should demand, I think depends somewhat on the age of its students. One or two years difference in maturity makes an immense amount of difference in the amount of technical work a student can turn out, and everybody who has had any experience in teaching knows the difference between a junior and a senior is very great. The man who goes away a junior and at the end of his vacation comes back a senior is quite a different man and can easily do almost twice the amount of work he did in the junior year. Questions that involve judgment in designing or testing problems cannot be handled by the junior anywhere near with the facility that they can by the senior.

PROFESSOR HENRY S. MUNROE:-1. Nature of the Problem. (a) Mining engineering is allied to civil engineering, but includes also work in mechanical engineering and electrical engineering. Under the head of civil engineering must be included such subjects as resistance of materials, foundations, structural work in wood, iron and masonry, railroad location and water supply. In mechanical engineering and electrical engineering the mining engineer has to deal with the design, construction and operation of many different types of machines in connection with the work of excavation, economical handling and treatment of minerals. His