Mr. REID. Have you had an appropriation for that?

Doctor BALLOU. Yes, sir.

Mr. REID. Has the property been purchased?

Doctor BALLOU. It has been purchased.

Mr. REID. How far from the Adams School building is it now? Doctor BALLOU. I do not know just how far. It is some little distance in the direction toward which population is growing.

Mr. REID. Has there been any complaint about that?

Doctor BALLOU. Not to my knowledge.

Mr. REID. Would they have complained to you?

Doctor BALLOU. I do not know.

Mr. REID. You would listen to the complaint as soon as it was made?

Doctor BALLOU. We would give it consideration, yes.

Mr. REID. That is what I meant.

Doctor BALLOU. I do not recall that there has been any complaint made about that.

Mr. REID. There has been no complaint, then, in regard to the building program that you know of?

Doctor BALLOU. There has been no complaint as to this particular item. I do not recall any complaint about carrying out this program. Mr. REID. That is what I wanted to know.

Doctor BALLOU. I am not aware of any such complaints. Of course, if some one should say, "didn't I say you ought to have done thus and so?" I should probably admit that they had said so, but the matter has not been presented in such a manner as to make me recall at this time that any complaints have been made about the way in which that program has been carried out, so far as the location of schools is concerned.

Mr. REID. You did not have anything to do with hiring the architect of the schools?

Doctor BALLOU. No, sir; nothing whatever.

Mr. REID. And you have no notion as to the system of hiring, whether home architects or architects away from home are employed?

Doctor BALLOU. The matter is entirely beyond our official knowledge.

Mr. REID. That is what I wanted to know.

Now you have mentioned the committee on buildings and grounds. That is six. What is the next one?

Doctor BALLOU. The committee on finance. The committee on finance supervises the preparation of the budget.

Mr. REID. Who are they?

Doctor BALLOU. The committee on finance usually invites all members of the board to be present, just as the committee on personnel does. The chairman of that committee is Mr. Carusi.

Mr. REID. That is the gentleman here to-night?

Doctor BALLOU. Yes, sir.

Mr. REID. And their duty is properly to present the need for funds to Congress?

Doctor BALLOU. It is their duty to organize the school budget and follow it through Congress.

Mr. REID. Have they been inadequate up to date, the funds that have been supplied?

Doctor BALLOU. In many respects, yes, not all that we could have wished for and properly expended.

Mr. REID. What you wish for is a big proposition, big enough adequately to educate the children?

Doctor BALLOU. That statement correctly represents the situation, provided we do not want more than we could reasonably expect to get.

Mr. REID. Do you not reasonably expect to get enough to house the children properly?

Doctor BALLOU. We do, but we are not getting it.

Mr. REID. Then you have not had enough funds adequately to educate them?

Doctor BALLOU. That is very true. I agree heartily with that statement.

Mr. REID. You do not want to be in the position I am in-this is not your trial, you know; this is the Board of Education. You are merely a witness that has been called here.

Doctor BALLOU. I am doing the best I can.

Mr. REID. You are doing very well.

Doctor BALLOU. Thank you.

Mr. REID. What is the next committee?

Doctor BALLOU. Athletics and physical training-athletics and playgrounds.

Mr. REID. Well, which is it, playgrounds or physical training? Doctor BALLOU. Athletics and physical training-I do not remem

ber which it is.

Mr. REID. Do they have playgrounds under their consideration? Doctor BALLOU. Matters pertaining to athletics and playgrounds will be referred to that committee.

Mr. REID. That is what I want to know. Who is chairman of that committee, if you know?

Doctor BALLOU. Mr. Learned, I think, is chairman of two committees. Mr. Greenwood has no chairmanship. He asked to be relieved of the chairmanship of the committee.

Mr. REID. Now, how does that committee operate?

Doctor BALLOU. Just the same as any committee operates.

Mr. REID. Do they go out and look over the situation when the matter is referred to them?

Doctor BALLOU. That committee does not go out and look over the situation any more than any committee goes out and looks over the situation.

Mr. REID. Well, you were here when Mr. Graham made his statement, were you not?

Doctor BALLOU. I was here when Mr. Graham testified, yes.

Mr. REID. He went on the Board of Education, he said, with theintense desire to do something for the children in the way of education, and inspired every member of the board to sacrifice his time and so on, and you mean to say that they do not voluntarily take up these questions until they are complained to or supplicated to do so? Doctor BALLOU. What questions?

Mr. REID. Any questions, the playground question or any of these others?

Doctor BALLOU. The playgrounds question is not a large question, as far as the Board of Education is concerned. We have two small items in the school budget, one for maintenance and one for fitting out six or eight additional grounds. Now, by the "ground" we mean just a yard adjoining the school, in which we put swings and slides or a little material of that sort.

Mr. REID. All right, Mrs. Norton, they answer in tandem, and we will ask them in tandem. What did you find lacking in playground facilities in the schools?

Mrs. NORTON. There seemed to be very little playground space in some of the schools, and in others the playgrounds were in very bad condition, low, and in some cases I found quite a large pool of water, which must become stagnant at times, and altogether I would say a health menace.

Mr. REID. Would that come under the jurisdiction of the health department or the playgrounds committee?

Doctor BALLOU. My opinion is that, for instance take the matter of pools of water, that is a matter of regrading the ground.

Mr. REID. Would the buildings and grounds committee have something to do with that?

Doctor BALLOU. The buildings and grounds committee would have something to do with the apportionment of the funds that are available in a lump sum appropriation, but that sum, as I understand it, can not be expended for the fitting up of playgrounds, because there is an appropriation of $4,000 for the maintenance of grounds, and we have a large number of school play yards to look after. Mr. REID. Only $4,000?

Doctor BALLOU. Yes; I think it is $4,500.

Mrs. NORTON. In one of the school playgrounds the ground was so low that the mothers who had children in the school had contributed ashes and stuff to fill up the playgrounds. It was in as bad condition as that.

Doctor BALLOU. What school was that?

Mrs. NORTON. I will have to ask Mrs. Rafter. What school was that, Mrs. Rafter? I can not remember the name of it. I do not have our report here. Do you remember the school that we were told about where they filled that in?

Mrs. GILES SCOTT RAFTER. The Allison portables, you know. They did it there. The Allison Street portables. That is the worst place. Those portables are put on a dump there.

Doctor BALLOU. The ground back of the Allison Street portables has never been fitted up for playground purposes at all. The ground where the portables were located was leveled off and the portables located there, and when the portables were located there the ground further back had not been filled in, so that the water did drain off farther from the portables than it now does, but the ground some distance away has been filled to some extent, and that means the water remains nearer the portables than it originally did. It ought to be graded. There is no question about that.

Mrs. NORTON. Well, in this particular part that I refer to, the pool of water, as I recall it, was between the school and the portable. Doctor BALLOU. Well, there is not any school there. There are just five portables there.

Mrs. NORTON. Then between each of the portables, perhaps. Doctor BALLOU. There is water in the immediate vicinity of the portables, immediately following a rain.

Mrs. NORTON. It was so bad that the children could not very well get in or out of the school without getting their feet wet.

Doctor BALLOU. I do not think there is any place around the Allison Street portables which prevents children from getting out of the portables without going through water.

Mrs. NORTON. Yes; I recall one place that there was.
Doctor BALLOU. Well, I am surprised to know it.
Mr. REID. Now, Doctor, what is the next committee?
Doctor BALLOU. You have eight committees. That is all.
Mr. REID. I thought you said there were nine.
Doctor BALLOU. I was mistaken about that.
committees.

There are eight

Mr. REID. Now, these eight committees, you and I have gone over in a general way what these committees have done. Now, is the combined action of the committees the combined action of the board?

Doctor BALLOU. No; because the board considers a great many matters in committee of the whole or as a board matters not referred to the committees. I should say the major work of the Board of Education are matters of policy, actions by the board as a whole and not by the committees.

Mr. REID. There has been no major policy of education acted upon by the Board of Education in the last five and a half years, has there?

Doctor BALLOU. Yes; the adoption of the five-year building program, a very definite program.

Mr. REID. It did not take them all that time to pass that?

Doctor BALLOU. Oh, yes; the beginning of the accumulation of evidence and study of the school system began in November, 1920, and culminated in the passage of the act in February, 1925.

Mr. REID. The school board has been paying attention to that all the time?

Doctor BALLOU. Yes; it has, regularly and systematically and particularly from the time it begins to prepare its estimates in April until the estimates are through Congress, which is sometimes in March and sometimes in May.

Mr. REID. So the bulk of the time has been taken up in that building program?

Doctor BALLOU. Yes, much of it.

Mr. REID. And your time has been taken up in that way?

Doctor BALLOU. In the building program and in the appropriations for the schools, and the matters that relate to that appropriation bill.

Mr. REID. A lot of time has been taken up in it?

Doctor BALLOU. Indeed there has been a lot of time taken up. Mr. REID. Then they must necessarily have neglected some of the other things that the school system needs?

Doctor BALLOU. I do not think they have neglected other things. There has not been the time to give to other things that might have

been given if they had been able to devote less time to this particular program.

Mr. REID. That is what I want to know, if the program took up all the time.

i

Doctor BALLOU. I did not say that it took up all their time; I said it took up a large part of their time.

Mr. REID. The committee will stand adjourned until 7.30 o'clock Friday night.

(Whereupon, at 10.15 o'clock p. m., the subcommittee adjourned until 7.30 o'clock p. m. Friday, March 12, 1926.)

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE

ON THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA,
Friday, March 12, 1926.

The subcommittee met at 7.30 o'clock p. m., Hon. Frank R. Reid (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Mr. REID. Who is your first witness, Mr. Gasque?

Mr. GASQUE. We have here George A. Warren, who represents the labor interests of the District and organized Federal employees of the District.

STATEMENT OF GEORGE A. WARREN, REPRESENTING ORGANIZED FEDERAL EMPLOYEES AND THE CENTRAL LABOR UNION, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Mr. REID. What is your full name?

Mr. WARREN. My name is George A. Warren.
Mr. REID. Whom do you represent?

Mr. WARREN. I come as representing the organized Federal employees of the Central Labor Union.

The Central Labor Union, with which the Federal employees are affiliated, has always favored an elective school board, in fact, it goes further. It stands for local self-government and control of everything in the District, and especially schools, realizing that that stands out preeminently as a need for local control.

There was testimony the other evening that it was the conviction of the speaker that a majority of the people of the District did not wish and were not in favor of an elective school board. I can say this of our people that we represent a large part of the population of this District. Some two or three years ago it was estimated that we had, with our various organizations a membership of about 70,000.

Mr. REID. Seventy thousand?

Mr. WARREN. Seventy thousand; that is all the organizations, including a large number of Federal employees, including some organized teachers, because we represent the organized teachers as well. And our people are pretty apt to have families. Upon that theory, and estimating about three persons to a family-I think that is a minimum estimate-you can see that we really make up a very considerable part, perhaps a third, of the population of the

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