of 18 millions sterling. He entreated that gentlemen would not throw out loose and general allusions upon this subject, calculated to embitter the feelings of those who suffered under difficulties which the remedy proposed must aggravate rather than diminish. He was glad that enquiry was to take place, but wished his assent to the motion to be considered not as any unwise disposition to surrender the rights of the country, but merely as a desire to shew the people that there was no intention to deceive them. Mr. Brougham said, that nothing that had fallen from the noble lord should tempt him for a moment to deviate from his resolution of saying nothing upon the question till they had come out from the enquiry, which could alone, in his mind, render them competent to speak upon it. He deprecated, however, the exulting tone adopted by the noble lord in speaking of what the noble lord was pleased to term the prosperity of our commerce. As to the meaning put by the noble lord upon his own vote, it appeared rather inconsistent, that if that noble lord and his friends thought that the Orders in Council were not to be abandoned, they should' vote to send those measures, as it were, to their trial, by voting to refer them to the consideration of a committee. It was, he thought, practising a gross delusion upon the public, to hold out to them a shew of relief if none whatever was ultimately intended. He could not divine the motives which had at length, after such a manifesto as they had lately issued, induced the ministers-to use no more invidious terms-induced the ministers to agree to the committee. He expressed a wish that the committee might be gone into tomorrow, and continue to sit, from day to day, deferring all other less urgent business until the present was disposed of. ciple of 1806, but there was a period in which America joined France, to call upon us for a revocation of those principles of blockade which we had hitherto maintained, and the adoption of the maritime rule of France. When such a demand was made, he hoped the House would not be inclined to look upon it as a mere commercial question. It was a question of great national right, and as such it ought to be looked at, and not as a mere calculation of imports and exports. America, he trusted, would not make our conduct a cause of war; but if she did, our duty would be to satisfy our own minds as to the justice of the case, and not to be deterred by our apprehension of war from the maintenance of what we knew to be our right. On the commercial part of the subject, however, he could not help observing, that there was a disposition in gentlemen greatly to exaggerate the difficulties experienced. To impute those difficulties to the Orders in Council, was neither logical nor fair. Looking to the documents on the table, they would find, that the whole state of the commerce during the present war, had experienced an increase rapid beyond example, extensive and unnatural in its degree. They would find that, at the present moment, the export of British manufactures within the year; exceeded the whole amount of the manufactures of France. The amount of the latter for the last year was 54,000,000l. the amount of the former for the same period, 62,000,000l. for the year before, 66,000,000l. and the preceding year, 49,000,000l. Many of the present difficulties might be traced to this unnatural, and as he might call it, diseased and gigantic success, which recoiled back upon the merchants and manufacturers. There was something in the very prosperity of this country, which rendered it more liable to such difficulties, by rendering the individuals less willing to leave their own trades for others. The direct trade with the United States of America, he would allow, was diminished by the unfortunate commercial hostility; but the exports to the other parts of America had risen in proportion, so that the general trade across the Atlantic did not suffer. Notwithstanding the policy of the emperor of France, there was much of the trade of France now open to us, and even in the last year, when the pressure was the severest, we contrived to convey to the continent of Europe exports to the value Mr. Stephen, in opposition to what had fallen from the hon. and learned gentleman, denied that it was the intention of ministers that the Orders in Council should be put on their trial in the committee. The question to be there examined was, whether any part of the commercial distress complained of, was owing to them, and not whether the policy which dictated them was founded upon right or wrong principles, notwithstanding the petitioners from Birmingham had ventured to decide the question, by asserting that the government had overturned the clearest principles of national law. After the wise therefore, give no pledge as to his future determination. and strong declaration of ministers on the the distresses complained of were in some subject just published, it would indeed degree, or altogether, occasioned by the appear inconsistent if they were to assent Orders in Council, it would still remain a to the motion without entering their pro- question for parliament to decide, whetest against the supposition that they con- ther, weighing the disadvantages against curred, because they entertained the the benefits, they should be abandoned. slightest doubt as to the propriety of per- He was fully persuaded that the result of sisting in the Orders in Council. It was a the examinations would be, that the disfoul libel to assert, that the Orders in tresses now felt (in the only year out of Council had been resorted to for the ex- the four in which the Orders in Council tension of the commerce of Great Britain. existed in which they had been complainHe expressed his conviction, derived from ed of) originated in causes completely experience of the proceedings of a com- distinct, connected with the excessive committee four years ago, that little or no be-merce previously carried on. He would, nefits would result from the enquiry about to be commenced. He therefore rather assented to the appointment of a committee as a negative good, and to prevent misconstruction; and he trusted that the investigation would be conducted in a fair, temperate, and candid manner. In reply to the speech of another hon. gentleman (Mr. Baring) he maintained, that the government of the United States did insist strenuously not only on the repeal of the Orders in Council, but of the blockade of 1807. After noticing the impossibility that mechanics taken from their looms could be competent judges on a question of such vast magnitude, and asserting that the distresses of trade proceeded from the glut of 1809, and the disturbances from the high price of provisions, he concluded by stating his willingness to go into the committee, for the purpose of quieting the public mind. He reprobated the introduction of such topics as the riots in Nottinghamshire, and the scarcity, in a discussion on the present subject; nevertheless, if the yellow fever raged in the country, and it was the belief of many persons that it proceeded from the Orders iu Council, he would consent that the subject should be examined, merely for the sake of removing the false impression. Lord Stanicy, in explanation, said he had not stated that the Berlin Decree was a mere municipal regulation. He wished to enquire whether, if it should appear that the Orders in Council constituted the principal cause of the present distress, his Majesty's government would give up the measure, or persevere in their former declaration? The Chancellor of the Exchequer replied, that he did not feel it necessary in this stage of the business, before any enquiry had been made, to enter into any pledge or promise as to his future conduct. Supposing, however, that it were proved that Mr. Tierney thought that he could answer his noble friend's question, though the right hon. gentleman would not. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had been asked whether he would consent to the committee?-His answer was in the negative. Consulting his friends, however, he found among them such strong symptoms of disaffection as induced him to alter his determination. The Chancellor of the Exchequer was now asked if he would repeal the Orders in Council after the report of the committee had been made? His answer was, No If the right hon. gentleman should discover, however, that desertion was likely to ensue, and he should be left in a minority, when the time arrived no doubt he would be as ready to repeal the Orders as he was to consent to the committee upon them. The question was then put, and agreed to, and it was ordered that the committee on the Orders in Council should sit to-morrow, and be continued de die in diem.' Witnesses from Birmingham, Sheffield, Manchester, &c. were summoned to attend on the motion of Mr. Brougham. MR. HENRY'S SECRET MISSION TO THE UNITED STATES.] Mr. Whitbread, referring to the accounts just received by the American papers, of Mr. Madison's Message to Congress, relative to an authorised agent being employed by the British government to foment the separation of the Eastern State from the Union, and ascertain the sentiments of the people of Boston on that topic, wished to ask the noble lord opposite, if he avowed the authenticity of the letter stating this fact, or knew of such agent so authorised? Lord Castlereagh replied, that, in his opinion, this matter had been very unfairly brought forward by the American | government. He thanked the hon. gentleman for affording him this opportunity for explanation, and begged, on the part of the British government, to disclaim, most explicitly and peremptorily, having encouraged any disposition of the kind alluded to. It was true, that an agent had been employed by sir James Craig, without the privity of the government, who only heard of that circumstance in the dispatch-announcing, at the same time, that he had been recalled, on the appearance of a pacific understanding being come to between the countries-having only been sent for the sole purpose of receiving information necessary to the commander of a province threatened with invasion. Mr. Whitbread read a passage from a letter dated 26th Feb. 1809, mentioning the separation of the Union, and wished to know on its being communicated to government, what steps were consequently taken ? Lord Castlereagh was not prepared to say that any blame had been attached to sir J. Craig. All that he had directed the agent to ascertain was, the temper of the States near that which he had to defend : and that he had no other objects but defence in view, was clear, from his immediately recalling the person when the apprehension of invasion was over. Mr. Whitbread said, he was not at all satisfied with this answer, and would be glad to know if government would produce the correspondence with sir James Craig, if moved for? Mr. Ponsonby also referred to a letter from Mr. Ryeland, to the agent, Henry, in which he proposed to furnish him with a cypher, in which to carry on his correspondence, and authorized him to meet any leading men on the subject of the separation, if they shewed a disposition to come under the protection of the British government. He was desirous of information on this subject. Lord Castlereagh said, he had not found this letter among sir J. Craig's correspondence. Mr. Whitbread then gave notice of a motion for the production of these papers to-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Wednesday, April 29. EXPENCE OF PUBLISHING PROCLAMATIONS IN THE IRISH NEWSPAPERS.] Sir John Newport moved, "That there be laid before this House, a detailed Account of the expenditure of the sum of 10,205l. 128. paid from the Treasury of Ireland, for publishing Proclamations, and other matters of a public nature, in the Dublin Gazette, and other newspapers in Ireland, from the 5th of January 1811 to the 5th of January 1812, specifying the titles and dates of the Proclamations so published and paid for." In making this motion, the right hon. gentleman reprobated the wasteful manner in which the public money was expended, by the publication of these Proclamations, which, he said, were frequently given to the proprietors of newspapers, as a remuneration for their services, in supporting the measures of the govern ment. Mr. Wellesley Pole felt no disposition to object to the motion, although the right hon. gentleman had not given any regular notice of his intention to bring it forward. With respect to the wasteful manner in which the right hon. gentleman had stated the public money had been squandered, he had only to observe, that during the last year, for the first time, the expenditure for the purposes alluded to, had been much less than on any former occasion, having been within the sum allowed by parliament for that purpose. When the right hon. gentleman was Chancellor of the Exchequer for Ireland, the expenditure was 17,000 per annum, and was never less than 15,000l. The newspaper in which the proclamations were generally inserted, was The Dublin Journal, which it was known had been the channel through which the Irish government had issued their orders for fifty years. As to the assertion, that the Irish government had rewarded or encouraged the conductors of newspapers who had thought proper to support their measures, by any unnecessary expenditure of public money, he begged leave to give it the most unqualified contradiction. Mr. Parnell gave full credit to the right hon. gentleman, for the economical measures which had been pursued by the present government of Ireland. He, however, observed, that it had been candidly admitted by his predecessor in office (lord Wellington,) that those proclamations were given to certain papers as a reward for their advocating the measures of go vernment. The motion was then agreed to. BILL FOR PREVENTING THE COUNTER FEITING OF SILVER COIN.] The Chancellor | contemplate the present state of the comof the Exchequer postponed till to-morrow merce and manufactures of the United his motion for repressing the issue of Local Kingdom, excluded as they are, in a great Tokens. He should now, however, pur- measure, from the principal markets in suant to notice, move for leave to bring in every quarter of the globe, from the cona Bill to increase the penalties imposed tinent of Europe by the envious malignant last year on the imitating and counterfeit- and persevering exertions of the lawless ing of tokens issued by the Bank. He ruler of France, from North America by proposed also, that provision should be those intricate and long protracted dismade in the Bill for repressing an abuse putes which continue to perplex the counwhich must have come within the obser- cils of both nations, from Africa by the vation of many gentlemen-he meant the difficulty of access, and the barbarism of engraving of pieces of paper which had all its general population, and from the richest the semblance of Bank notes, and which provinces of Asia by the exclusive monowere calculated to catch the eye of the poly of the East India Company; and unwary. He had seen a parcel of these that the petitioners trust they shall ever papers, which at a little distance, and bear, without murmuring, all necessary when not narrowly inspected, had the ap- burthens and unavoidable privations, rapearance of bank-notes for one, five, or ther than compromise, in the smallest detwenty pounds, which escaped the charge gree, the honour, the interest, or the seof forgery by having the word pins' in- curity of their country; they cannot, stead of pounds, but which from their tex- however, but feel it a duty thus candidly ture and appearance might escape detec- and temperately to state to the House, the tion and pass with the unwary, as had ac- difficulties and distresses which all ranks tually happened in a variety of instances. of mercantile men and manufacturers in The present penalty for fraudulently put the town and neighbourhood of Sheffield ting off such papers was only six months experience at the present time, and to imprisonment. He proposed that the Bill claim, with freedom and confidence, every should increase it to 12 months imprison- relief and assistance within the power of ment for the first offence, and that the of the House to afford; and that the petifender should find security for his good be- tioners are convinced, that one of the haviour for two years. For the second most easy and effectual measures for this offence, he had to propose transportation purpose would be the discontinuance at for 7 years. For the more effectual pre- the close of the present grant of the East vention of the counterfeiting of Bank to- India Company's commercial monopoly ; kens, he proposed, that the offence should and that the petitioners are fully perbe made a transportable felony for 14 suaded, if the trade to the East Indies years. He concluded with moving, were thrown open to all his Majesty's subjects, such new and abundant markets would be discovered and established, as would enable them to set at defiance every effort to injure them by that sworn enemy to their prosperity, and the peace of Europe, the present unprincipled ruler of France; and that the petitioners doubt not, if the trade of this United Kingdom were permitted to flow unimpeded over those extensive luxuriant and opulent regions, though it might, in the outset, like a torrent represt and swoln by obstruction when its sluices were first opened, break forth with uncontroulable impetuosity, deluging instead of supplying the district before it; yet that very violence which, at the beginning, might be partially injurious, would, in the issue, prove highly and permanently beneficial; no part being unvisited, the waters of commerce, that spread over the face of the land as they subsided, would wear themselves "That leave be given to bring in a Bill for the further prevention of the counterfeiting of silver coin issued by the governor and company of the bank of England, called dollars; and of silver pieces issued and circulated by the said governor and company, called tokens; and for the further prevention of frauds practised by the imitation of the notes or bills of the said governor and company." Leave granted. PETITIONS FROM SHEFFIELD, AND WHITBY, RESPECTING THE RENEWAL OF THE EAST INDIA COMPANY'S CHARTER.] A Petition of the merchants, master manufacturers, and other principal inhabitants of the town and neighbourhood of Sheffield, agreed upon at a meeting held at the Cutler's-hall on the 6th day of April, 1812, was presented and read; setting forth, "That the petitioners cannot, without deep concern, and some degree of alarm, the skill industry and capital of private merchants, it would be conducted with a degree of energy and economy which a large public body is incapable of exercising, new channels of commerce would be discovered, the consumption of our ma channels through which they might continue to flow ever afterwards in regular and fertilizing streams; and that to the wealthy, enterprizing, honourable and indefatigable British merchant conducting in person his own concerns, no obstacle would prove insurmountable, no prejudice|nufactures extended, and our shipping ininvincible, no difficulty disheartening; wants, where he found them, he would supply; where they did not exist, he would create them, by affording the means of gratification; and that the petitioners are aware, that the commercial monopoly of the East India Company, while it is exceedingly prejudicial to the mercantile interest of the community at large, is only in a small proportion profitable to the proprietors themselves, and, if permitted to continue, there is reason to believe that its advantages will be gradually reduced and deteriorated; on the particular evils resulting from this monopoly the petitioners forbear to expatiate, being well assured that these will not escape the vigilant eye of the British legislature, nor be suffered longer to exist than the welfare of the colonies themselves, and the strict justice due to the claims of the East India Company, shall imperiously require; and praying the House to take into serious consideration the propriety of refusing to renew the expiring grant of an exclusive right of trade to certain countries between the Cape of Good Hope and the Straits of Magellan to the East India Company, the petitioners being convinced that such a measure offers the fairest probability of alleviating the distresses of this country, reviving its commerce and manufactures, improving its revenue, increasing the navy, and, with the navy, the strength of the British empire, and under the blessing of Providence, enabling us most successfully to defeat the ambitious projects of an implacable foe, who finds our resistance an insuperable bar to the accomplishment of his scheme of universal domination." A Petition of the merchant ship owners and other inhabitants of the town of Whitby, in the county of York, was also presented and read; setting forth, "That the approaching expiration of the East India Company's Charter having occupied the attention of the House, the petitioners beg leave to observe, that, if the trade to the British dominions in India and to the immense and populous countries included in the Charter, were laid open to creased, to the advantage of the parties concerned, and the permanent augmentation of the wealth power and resources of the British empire; and that the extensive and flourishing commerce of the United States of America with India and the Chinese empire, exhibits a proof that these expectations of advantage from the exertions of private individuals are not unfounded; and that the petitioners hope and trust that no reason can be found, either in justice or in policy, for the exclusion of the out-ports from the benefit of the trade with India; and though the inhabitants of the port of Whitby might not embark directly in the trade, yet they have no doubt of profiting in common with their countrymen, from the increased employment which it would offer to British shipping, and the new markets which it would open to our manufactures, and the petitioners further humbly request that the House will not impose any restraint on the British merchant respecting the burthen of any vessel to be employed in the trade, but leave the choice to his own judgment and discretion; and praying the House will be pleased to adopt such measures as to their wisdom shall seem meet, for granting to all his Majesty's subjects, from and after the expiration of the East India Company's Charter, a free trade to and from India and its dependencies, and to and from the empire of China." Ordered to lie upon the table. PETITION OF THE MERCHANTS, &C. IN Glasgow, in FAVOUR OF THe Orders in COUNCIL.] A Petition of the subscribers, merchants, and manufacturers in Glasgow, was presented and read; setting forth, "That the petitioners having been informed that certain merchants and manufacturers of the city of Glasgow have represented to the House, that the trade and manufactures of the nation, and particularly of that part of the United Kingdom, have been greatly injured by the operation of his Majesty's Orders in Council of the 26th of April, 1809, the petitioners think it due to themselves humbly to state to the House that, in their opinion, the Orders in |