Council have not limited or restricted the trade and manufactures of this nation, or of that part of the United Kingdom, excepting in so far as they may have been the means of producing those measures on the part of the American government which have led to the interruption of a direct intercourse with that country; that, viewed as a measure of hostility and retaliation against the enemy, they have been eminently successful, since they have injured his revenue, entirely destroyed his commerce, and deprived him of the means of disposing of the productions of France and Holland; that, under the persuasion of the truth and justness of these opinions, the petitioners humbly apprehend it would be unwise to sacrifice, to the wishes of a small proportion of the trading part of the community, to the threats of any power whatever, or to an object comparatively of small importance, a system of acting, which has already produced consequences so disastrous to the enemy; and praying, that no steps may be taken to advise the relinquishing of measures and principles essential to the vigorous prosecution of the war." Ordered to lie upon the table, CHARITABLE DONATIONS REGISTRY BILL.] Mr. Lockhart moved the order of the day for the third reading of this Bill. Sir W. Curtis said, the principle of this Bill was such, as to call for general approbation; yet there were clauses in it which, in his opinion, would completely overbalance any good effects which might result from it. He should, therefore, give his vote against its passing into an act. Mr. Wilberforce said, he was really going to see whether the opposition of the worthy alderman was given with a grave face or not. He saw it was, although he observed a smile on the countenance of the worthy alderman, at which he was not surprized, when he recollected that the only objection which induced him to oppose the progress of the Bill was, the fact of there being no exemption of the Charities of the city of London. He begged to assure the hon. member, that there was not the slightest suspicion entertained of the honour of the different guilds of the city of London; but if they were exempted from registering their donations, the same privilege would be claimed by other corporations, and the great object of the Bill would be defeated. Indeed, such claims had actually been made from Bris tol and other places, but they had been studiously resisted, as interfering with the main principle of the measure. Mr. Lockhart expressed his surprize at the objection which had been urged by the hon. baronet. The more especially when he considered that there had been but one single petition presented against the Bill, and that from the Merchant Taylors' Company; which, while it approved of the principle of the Bill, objected to provisions therein which did not in reality exist. The regulations proposed were extremely simple, and such as no honest man could fairly dissent from. Mr. Wrotesley stated, that he had received a letter from the Merchant Taylors' Company, calling upon him to oppose the Bill, as unwise and unnecessary; but on examining its merits, so far was he from concurring in the opinion that it was unwise or unnecessary, that he conceived it of great importance, and likely to be productive of the utmost benefit to the public, as it would prevent those abuses in the disposition of charitable donations which had so long existed with impunity. He should give it all the support in his power. Sir James Graham conceived the Bill wholly unnecessary, and only calculated to put money in the pockets of the persons with whom the registries were to be made. Mr. Thompson supported the Bill. Mr. Herbert wished that royal hospitals should be exempted. Sir W. Curtis said, the objection to the Bill did not arise with the corporation of London, but with the twelve companies. The question being then called for, the House divided-For the Bill 32; Against it 11; Majority 21. The Bill was then read a third time, and passed. COMMITTEE ON THE PETITIONS AGAINST THE ORDERS IN COUNCIL.] The Speaker wished to ascertain whether it was intended to adhere to the accustomed rule of not permitting witnesses to be in hearing during the examination of others. It was right that this point should be settled at their outset. Upon this a conversation of some length arose, in which Mr. Brougham, the Speaker, Mr. Tierney, Mr. Ryder, and other members participated, and it was at last understood, that witnesses in hearing during the examination of preceding witnesses, should be liable to be objected to on that account. The order of the day for going into a committee was then read. Sir T. Turton, not having been in the House last night, rose to ask a few questions. He wished to know if the right hon. gentleman opposite meant to go into a committee merely to ascertain the distresses of the country, and not to endeavour to discover a mode of relieving them? If so, it was to add insult and illusion to the misery of the petitioners. He asked if, consistent with the Declaration published within these few days by the government, it was possible for them to yield the relief of a repeal of the Orders in Council? They could not; and therefore he thought the Committee nugatory, and the hope of these unfortunate persons forlorn. He required explanation on several other points in the discussion of last night. Mr. Rose said, that what he had stated last night was, that it did not follow that America would, of course, be satisfied with the repeal of the Orders in Council. Mr. Stephen explained a misrepresentation of his speech last night. He did not say that it would be necessary to have Vattel, and Puffendorf, and Grotius on the table of the committee, but that if every matter connected with the enquiry was gone into, as held out by gentlemen on the other side, that might be the natural consequence. With regard to the Petitions against the Orders in Council, he had said, that if it had been thought ministers were inclined to alter their system of policy, there would have been a number of counter Petitions. He had also maintained the doctrine, that a country might cease a retaliating measure, if it found itself hurt by it. the Prince Regent's government, called forth as they were by the statement of the French minister, declaring the Berlin and Milan Decrees to be fundamental laws of the French empire, and attaching no consequence to the repeal of the Orders in Council, unless accompanied by the abandonment of our maritime rights. After this he was convinced, if America acted with the impartiality she professed, when this document was produced, she could not, without making common cause with France, pretend to say, that the Berlin and Milan Decrees were repealed-and must be bound and obliged to put this country on an equal footing with France, nor grant her indulgences not granted to us. But at the same time ministers entertained these views, were they, as members of parliament, to refuse to enquire into the extent of the mischief done to our manufacturers, and ascertain how much might be attributable to the Orders in Council-how much to other causes? . Mr. Whitbread said, that from the arguments of the right hon. gentleman, and from the Declaration of the government which had just been published, he was quite convinced that, till within a few hours of the time, that right hon. gentleman had been disposed to resist going into this committee; and, therefore, he was not now to ascribe his acquiescence to respect to the petitioners, but to his being compelled to the vote, by the hints of his own friends, that they would not give him their support in refusing the enquiry. He denied that the Declaration was well founded, and maintained that the policy of the right hon. gentleman, if persevered in, and not checked by the House, as his former determination had been, must inevitably lead to an American war. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, alluding to an expression of sir T. Turton, that the committee would be illusory and insulting, animadverted, in pointed terms, on the use of such language. If the course taken by government were called so, nothing could Mr. Wilberforce earnestly recommended be more mistaken than the motives im- to the House to enter into this examination puted to them; and what would, on the with a proper and serious feeling for the other hand have been said, had they re- distresses of the country, and with their fused to go into this committee?-that minds purged of all party views. They they had refused to hear the Petitions, ought to set themselves fairly to ascertain and enquire into their distresses; and then, the extent and amount of the evil, and to indeed, the charge of insulting would have what causes it was to be ascribed, with a been rung in their ears. He considered it desire to remove them if possible. This to be due to the petitioners to ascertain the being their duty, he could not help confull extent of their grievances, while at the demning the line of argument adopted by same time they might determine to perse- the hon. gentleman who spoke last. It vere in that line of policy most beneficial was wrong to impute bad motives for an to the general interests of the empire. act which he himself considered to be a With regard to the Declaration alluded to, good one; instead of the most obvious and it certainly contained the sentiments of natural motive, a feeling for the distresses (VOL. XXII.) (4 C) of the people, and a wish to relieve them. The House would do their duty, and prove themselves the friends of the people by entering into this enquiry, and the more so if they beforehand purged their minds of all those acrimonious opinions, and only endeavoured to contribute the greatest sum to universal happiness. Mr. Brougham coincided entirely in the wise and candid sentiments expressed by the hon. gentleman who had just sat down. It was impossible that the House could go into the intended committee with better impressions. This was no common investigation, for the nation was, he would not say, in a state of universal distress, but certainly in a state of universal complaint, as was proved by the numerous Petitions. He hoped that every member would go into the committee without any bias, and for his own part he most solemn ly declared that his mind was divested from all former opinions, and ready to admit any evidence as if he was in a Jury box. The House then went into a committee, Mr. Babington in the chair. Mr. Brougham stated, that some of the witnesses not being in town, would cause the course of examination to be more desultory than intended; and after a few words from the Chancellor of the Exchequer and lord Stanley, Mr. Thomas Attwood, high bailiff of Birmingham, was called in, and examined by Mr. Brougham. This witness was principally cross-examined by Mr. Stephen; but some questions were also put to him by Mr. Whitbread, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Baring, Mr. Wilberforce, Mr. Lyttelton, and Mr. Brougham; after which he was ordered to withdraw. exactly the same document, which, until within the two last years, had been annually laid on the table. If the right hon. gentleman opposite conceived that danger would arise from so detailed an account, he might omit those items which he considered objectionable; but, to refuse a document in toto, which was so necessary to direct many questions which must be put to witnesses as to their trade with different places, would seem to indicate an opposition to the object of the committee. The Chancellor of the Exchequer did not think the production of a part of the account would answer the object of the bon. gentleman; and he could very easily form in his own mind the danger to be apprehended from laying the whole account on the table. By it those parts of Europe and of the world would be pointed out to the enemy, with which we carried on the greatest trade, and much mischief might arise from such a disclosure, when it was recollected how anxious the enemy was to Occupy with his troops those ports where British manufactures were permitted to be landed. Lord Milton conceived the account might be drawn up in the way mentioned by his learned friend, from which no danger was likely to arise. Mr. Baring agreed, that a full disclosure would be likely to occasion ill consequences; but the account, he thought, could be so generalized as to give every information, without producing any harm whatever. The trade to the Straits, the Brazils, Portugal, Spain, and the Spanish colonies, could be stated without any fear of the discovery causing a diminution. Mr. Brougham said, he only wanted an account of the description mentioned by his hon. friend. To the places enumerated by him he could wish to have added, Sici The second person called to give evidence was Mr. William Whitehead, a master manufacturer in the town of Birming-ly, Malta, and Heligoland. ham. The examination of this witness having been concluded, the House resumed, and the further proceedings of the committee were adjourned till to-morrow. The Chancellor of the Exchequer expressed himself willing to give every information consistent with prudence. If no danger attended the production of the document, he and his friends would be extremely happy to grant it. By fully shewing the system on which trade was at present conducted, it would operate decisively in defence of the measures pursued. Mr. Brougham expressed a wish that a document, for which he had called previous to the first debate on the Orders in Council, but which had been refused, might now be laid before the House. It was particularly necessary, as the inquiry had been begun, that this paper should be produced. It was an account of the Ex-tugal should be laid before the House. ports of Great Britain to all parts of the world, for a certain period, distinguishing the Exports to each country. This was Mr. H. Thornton was anxious that the account of our Exports to Spain and Por Some time ago, those Exports were stated to amount to 18,000,000l. per annum. He should be glad to know how much the Exports to our army contributed to that sum? Mr. Stephen observed, that the increase was in a great measure owing to our supplying those articles which were formerly furnished by Holland, but which trade our Orders in Council had prevented. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he did not believe a single item of the Exports to the army was contained in the list of Exports. After a few words from Mr. Brougham, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and Mr. Barham, the conversation ended. The Minutes of Evidence were then brought up, and ordered to be printed. Kingdom; and that, if the trade now monopolized were laid open, it would afford considerable relief to the kingdom at large, and to the inhabitants of the city of Exeter and neighbourhood in particular, as they are enabled by local circumstances to prepare and finish many articles exported to China, fully as well as it is done in London, and upon much lower terms than are allowed to the connections and dependents of the East India Company residing in the metropolis, of which the managers of the concerns of that Company have been apprized for many years past, but have refused to avail themselves of it; and that, consequently, the petitioners would feelingly lament to see any longer vested in the East India Company the exclusive right to carry on trade to China in particular, as it would be highly injurious to the interests of that city and neighbourPETITIONS FROM THE WEAVERS OF EXE- hood, already much distressed by the loss TER THE FILLET MANUFACTURERS OF of their accustomed trade and manufacLONDON-ALSO From Montrose anD LIN-tures; and praying the House to adopt LITHGOW, RESPECTING THE RENEWAL OF THE EAST INDIA COMPANY'S CHARTER.] An Address and Petition of the master, wardens, and assistants of the incorporation of weavers, fullers, and shearmen of the city and county of Exeter, in common hall assembled, was presented and read; setting forth, HOUSE OF COMMONS. Thursday, April 30. such measures as to its wisdom and justice may seem meet for the total abolition of the commercial monopoly of the East India Company, and for laying open the trade to India, China, and all other places and territories situated between the Cape of Good Hope and the Straits of Magellan," A Petition of the fillet manufacturers and painters of London, was also presented and read; setting forth, "That a few years ago there existed in the city of Exeter a very flourishing foreign trade, which is now nearly annihilated; that the demand for woollens alone from the "That the petitioners, during forty continent of Europe amounted to about years, have been established in the manuone million sterling annually, the loss of facture and painting of fillets for the East which trade has very much impoverished India Company; and that this article is and distressed the merchants, manufac- made from Scotch linen, which is dyed, turers, and others concerned therein, or in stiffened, and glazed, and the arms of the anywise connected therewith; and that Company emblazoned thereon, from the this deprivation is the more grievously weaving of which to the finishing nearly felt and lamented, in as much as the peti- three hundred workmen are employed: tioners are excluded by the charter of the these fillets are used as a covering for East India Company from resorting to each piece of woollen, and not only semarkets which might, and most probably cure the same from injury, but also bearwould in a great measure, compensate for ing the arms of the said Company, with a the loss of the ancient trade of that city; gilt seal attached, cause the goods to be and that the petitioners are convinced the received by the respective merchants in monopoly now possessed by a joint stock India without examination of the packages; Company of the trade to India and China, and that, to prove to the House the neis highly injurious to the naval and com- cessity of conforming to this practice, mercial interests of the British empire; and the dangers which would arise and the petitioners are of opinion that the from any innovation, the petitioners, in continuation of this monopoly would be the year 1801, added a device, embla⚫ no less inconsistent with the sound prin-matical of the Union of Great Britain and ciples of commercial policy, than with those of impartiality and justice to the inhabitants of every part of the United Ireland, on a part of the fillets for China; yet such was the prejudice of the Chinese to old forms, that the merchants and the empire; and that it appears extremely unreasonable, if not unjust, that the inhabitants of the United States of America, and the subjects of other governments in amity with Britain, should be admitted to commercial intercourse with the British possessions in India, while the subjects of Britain are excluded; and that the petitioners are humbly of opinion that the admission of a free trade with the countries comprehended under the exclusive grant of the East India Company will afford an extensive field for the employment of mercantile talents and capital, and be productive of the greatest benefit to the ma traders would not purchase the woollens | private merchant from participating in without a considerable abatement in the the trade, it has been far from operating price, although these were of the uniform to the advantage of the Company; and quality and description usually exported that the petitioners do not mean to suggest by the East India Company, and hereto- any thing to the House with regard to the fore so confidently received in that market government of the Company's possessions without inspection, the Hong merchants in India, but they would humbly propose alleging that the goods were inferior that the exclusive privileges of the Commerely from this alteration in the exterior pany should not be renewed, and that the form of the package; and that the peti- trade to the extensive countries between tioners therefore conceive themselves war- the Cape of Good Hope and the Straits of ranted in the apprehension, that should Magellan should be laid open to the comthe trade to China be opened to the pub-mercial enterprize of all the subjects of lic, not only their interests would be injured materially, but that also the profitable intercourse with the Chinese empire would be endangered, if not annihilated; and that the petitioners have expended a large capital in the erection of buildings and machinery for the manufacturing and painting of the said fillets, employing therein a great number of workmen, who have large families; and that, should the charter of the East India Company not be renewed, the petitioners must suffer nearly a total loss in the sale of their premises, the same not being convertible to any other purpose, and the numerous poor families dependant thereon for their sup-nufacturing interest of the country; and port, will be reduced to poverty and distress; and the petitioners, relying on the wisdom of the House, humbly submit the above statement to their consideration, and express an earnest hope, that the final determination of the House will be, to continue the trade to India and China through the East India Company, by whom it has been conducted in a manner so highly creditable to themselves, and so advantageons to the general interests of the country." A Petition of the provost, magistrates, and town council of the royal burgh of Montrose, in council assembled, was also presented and read; setting forth, praying the House to adopt such measures as may render it lawful for any of his Majesty's subjects, from and after the expiry of the East India Company's present charter, to carry on, from any of the ports of the United Kingdom, a free and unlimited trade with the British possessions in India, and with other countries situated to the East of the Cape of Good Hope, and to the West of Cape Horn.' A Petition of several magistrates, council, and merchants of the royal burgh of Linlithgow, with the merchants and traders of the port and harbour of Borrowstouness, was also presented and read; setting forth, "That the petitioners are informed, "That the petitioners have seen, with that the Company of merchants of Eng- alarm, attempts making by the East India land trading to the East Indies, have ap- Company for a renewal of their monopoly plied to parliament for a renewal of their of the trade to the Eastward of the Cape charter; and that the petitioners beg of Good Hope at a period when all excluleave respectfully to convey to the House sive grants are considered, by the univertheir sentiments on a subject of such im-sal consent of mankind, as hostile to the portance to the empire; and that the experience of past times has proved, beyond all dispute, the baneful effects of monopolies; and the petitioners think they are sufficiently warranted in asserting, that, while the monopoly hitherto enjoyed by the East India Company has precluded the true principles of enlightened policy; and that the petitioners, in common with the rest of their fellow countrymen, looked forward, with satisfaction, to the moment when the Charter of the Company should expire, and when a new field was about to be laid open to the spirit and enter |