might to him seem proper for having committed an extraordinary insult and outrage on the privilege of parliament.

The Order for the attendance of Hindson and Mr. Campbell was then made out.

PETITION FROM THE MERCHANTS, &c. of Liverpool RESPECTING THE EAST INDIA COMPANY'S CHARTER.] General Tarleton presented a Petition from the merchants, ship owners, tradesmen, and other inhabitants of the town of Liverpool,

Majesty's subjects to a free trade, and the extension of an honourable, just and legitimate commerce, as amongst the first and most important objects of legislative regulation; and praying, that the House will be pleased to take this subject into their most serious consideration, and that they will, at the earliest opportunity, adopt such measures for abolishing the commercial monopoly of the East India Company, as to the wisdom and justice of parliament may seem most expedient.'

On the motion that the Petition be brought up,

Mr. Creevey did not rise to oppose it. On the contrary, he should be glad to see it on the table. He merely rose to correct a misrepresentation of the hon. general's, with respect to the actual situation of the people of the town of Liverpool, and to maintain that the statement which he had originally made of their distresses, was perfectly correct. He had stated, and he now repeated it, that in the course of one month only, the number of poor had increased from 8,000 to 15,000 persons. So far from his account being overstated, he was, from subsequent information, more convinced than ever of his own correct

"That the Petitioners humbly beg leave to represent to the House, that by various charters granted from time to time to the East India Company, the Petitioners have for a long series of years been restricted in carrying on trade, as well with the extensive possessions of the company in the East Indies, as with the whole of the islands and territories in Africa and Asia, from the Cape of Good Hope to the straits of Magellan, and have thus, as the Petitioners humbly conceive, not only been prevented from exerting their mercantile skill and industry, and employing their capital in a manner the most advantageous to their country and to themselves, but have been deprived of those privileges which they humbly presume are the com-ness and of the decay of trade in that town. mon birth-right of all his Majesty's subjects, the right of carrying on a free trade to all parts of the British empire and other countries in amity with the United Kingdom, subject only to such general regulations of trade as the policy of this country may require, or as may be necessary for maintaining the relations of these realms with foreign states, and securing to government those revenues which may be requisite for its support; and that the Petitioners further beg leave humbly to state to the House, that they cannot but regard all monopolies which prohibit the general body of the people from carrying on trade with any other country, and in particular the monopoly of the East India Company, as highly injurious to the general interests of this country at large, and as greatly discouraging that commercial spirit, which, from the nature and local situation of these islands, is indispensable to their prosperity, and upon which their security at this moment essentially depends: and that the Petitioners having therefore assembled together in a general meeting, have resolved to appeal for a redress of this their grievance to the House, in the humble, but confident hope, that they will consider the protection of the equal rights of his

It was most extraordinary to him how any gentleman could wish to deceive the House, when it was evident that, as he had before said, the ships were dismasted, riggers and carpenters out of employ, and the general appearance of the town such as to satisfy any person of the distresses under which the inhabitants laboured. The absence of the American trade, which constituted one of the chief props of the town, had occasioned this decay, which was felt in Chester and Manchester; also, in the falling off of the exports of salt and goods of various descriptions. To shew the vast decrease in the trade, he had a document from the customs which stated the exports for the last two years for that town. In the year preceding the last, the amount was 2,676,000l. In the last year 1,770,000l. being a deficiency of about 900,000l. between the two years ending the 5th Jan. last. In addition to the distress occasioned by the absence of trade, there were distresses of another kind connected with the collection of the taxes. He understood that an attorney of the town, perhaps not the most eminent in his profession, finding business not coming in, had made application to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and got converted into an

inspector of the district. In this new cha- | hon. friend's absence, and he would refer

to it again if it was the wish of the House, (a cry of read! read!) The hon. general then read this Report, which we understood to come from the corporation of Liverpool; the substance of which was to the following effect: That from the extensive docks constructing at Liverpool, a number of labourers had been invited from Ireland and Wales; but the funds for the construction of the works having fallen short, a number of them had been thrown out of employment, which gave rise to the establishment of a soup com

racter he suggested to his right hon. friend, as his fellow townsmen would not employ him, that the revenue would be greatly improved by surcharging them on their assessments generally. The consequence of these surcharges was a general manifestation of discontent throughout the town, and an alarm among the collectors of taxes. The surveyor of the district finding he could not discharge the trust reposed in him faithfully under the new inspector, resigned his office, and others were about to follow, or had followed his example. This attorney perhaps had re-mittee for their relief. The Committee had, ceived his appointment in consequence of having been a client of the right hon. gentleman, at a period of his life when he followed the profession of the law, and therefore gratitude might have led to the appointment. At any rate, it was not to be endured that men should be induced by such appointments to become informers against their neighbours and fellow-towns

men.

Mr. Rose had no doubt, that Liverpool felt considerable distress in common with other commercial towns throughout the kingdom. But the statements of the hon. gentleman appeared to him extremely loose, founded mostly upon hearsay, and greatly exaggerated; for he had understood from unquestionable authority, that the persons reported to be receiving charity, were not receiving parochial aid, but merely that kind of assistance furnished by what was called a soup committee. He was also enabled to state, that three or four years ago, between 7 and 8,000 persons more than the number already mentioned, had received similar assistance. As to the number of ships for sale, he had been informed from good authority, that the whole number of ships lying unemployed in the harbour of Liverpool, did not exceed 24, and of these, some were just returned from their voyages, and others were under repair. Neither was the Salt trade entirely gone, as the hon. gentleman had asserted; and upon the whole the decay of commerce in Liverpool was less considerable than might be expected, considering that it was the great mart for the American trade.

General Tarleton said, that having received a representation from a number of his constituents, on the subject of the statement some time ago made by his hon. friend (Mr. Creevey), he had read it to the House, on a former night, though in his (VOL. XXII.)

however, since found that though such numbers had at first received this assisance, there were never more than between 3 and 4,000 who really wanted it. At present, the labourers on the docks had 3s. a day; and when some gentlemen wanted to employ some of the hands in country labour in the neighbourhood, they could hardly procure them. The report then went on to state, that there was scarcely a British ship out of employment in the port of Liverpool, nor a ship-carpenter out of employment who was worth it.

General Gascoyne conceived the best mode of judging of the state of the town, would be to take the medium between the two accounts; most certainly there had been a considerable diminution in the trade. It had been stated by his hon. friend, on a former occasion, that there were 56 ships unemployed: not one half of that number, however, were for sale. When it was recollected that three-fourths of the trade of Liverpool was to America, could it be thought extraordinary that there was a stagnation? He trusted that the inconvenience would be of a temporary nature only; the chief cause of the distress arose from the depression of the colonial trade.

Mr. Baring was not disposed to place much reliance on the statement read by the hon. general; for it was well known, that in all the petty corporate towns of the kingdom, the mayor and corporation were always eager, and mostly interested in supporting the measures of the minister of the day, and were ready to proclaim them as the best possible for the interests of the country. But he could not help remarking, the great injury that must result from misrepresentations of topics of this nature, and from statements of the flourishing state of our commerce, when the fact was notoriously the reverse.

(I)

If

that the shipping in the ports of London
was so. The transports had increased
from 19 to 23s. per ton. He believed he
was correct in that statement; sure he
was that the price of transports was con-
siderably more than in former
years. As
to the trade with France, he had stated
that he had reason to believe that some
trade would be opened, but to what ex-
tent he could not tell, nor indeed was the
subject a fit one to discuss now.

Mr. Baring. If the right hon. gentle

Mr. Rose replied, that he had enquired, and the hon. gentleman would find himself entirely mistaken in his statement.

the right hon. gentleman opposite, by whom it was the misfortune of the country to be ruled, was really so weak as to believe the report of the mayor and aldermen of corporate towns, and to be guided by them in forming his opinions, there was really very little chance of any relief being afforded to the distressed commerce of the country. The American trade was essentially destroyed, and whether we had an equivalent, though it had been hinted that we had, was a question which he would not now discuss. As to the ship-man will enquire at the Transport Board, ping interest in general, if the right hon. he will find himself mistaken as to the price gentleman would not listen merely to in- of transport tonnage. terested people, who told him that his system was the wisest and best of systems, he would learn that the shipping trade was at present a losing concern, not only in Liverpool, but in London also. The House, however, had been led to expect, that an equivalent for the defalcation of so many branches of our commerce would be obtained, and a right hon. gentleman had hinted, that a great trade was likely to be opened with France, by means of licences. Now, the conditions on which these licences were to be granted, he understood to be these that we were to import French laces, lawns, cambrics, linens, and jewellery in French ships, or at least in ships belonging to countries under the power of France; and in return for these goods we were merely to export colonial produce at the rate of 51. per ton. So that for the purpose of relieving and encouraging our manufacturers, we were to introduce French laces, lawns, linens, &c. to enter into competition with our own articles of the same description. There was also this gross inequality, that by these licences the French would be enabled to export goods of the value of 3 or 4,000l. per ton, while we only exported to the value of 51. in return. How could a trade of this sort be justified? And, indeed, when talking of it to some most strenuous supporters of ministers, they seemed completely staggered by the proposition. On the subject of the collection of taxes, he differed from his hon. friend (Mr. Creevey) and was rather disposed to give ministers credit for exacting them more equally in places where too great lenity had been previously shewn. It was the duty of the government to take care that the burthens of the country should be equally borne.

Mr. Rose, in explanation, denied that he stated that the shipping of Liverpool was in a prosperous state, nor had he said

The Chancellor of the Exchequer conceived the House would not think he acted correctly, were he to allow the observations of the hon. gentleman (Mr. Creevey) to pass unnoticed. The tone and manner of the hon. gentleman, when talking of the appointment of the District Inspector of Liverpool, must have impressed on the House an opinion that he felt most warmly for some old client, as the hon. gentleman was pleased to term this surveyor, to whom he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had owed a good turn for former favours, and therefore thought the best thing that could be done for old friendship was to get him to surcharge his fellow townsmen, for which purpose he had appointed him to a situation in which he might carry his object into effect. So the hon. gentleman wished the House to understand. It appeared from the statement of the hon. gentleman, that this old client and new protégé, so anxious to carry on his purpose, had under him a person of very delicate nerves, who, not being able to follow his superior officer in his duties, had thought proper to resign. Now, with respect to this attorney and client, he had no knowledge whatever, but he did recollect something of the gentleman under him of delicate nerves-the same, he supposed, from whom the hon. gentleman had collected his correct information-who had been called upon to account for some miscon duct, and this call had so alarmed him, that he had thought it better to resign.He did recollect that another person was appointed upon the recommendation of Mr. Lowndes, and that person, he imagined, was the old client spoken of, but of whom he had not the most distant recollection. Now, it would become the hon. gentleman,

India.

The Petition was then ordered to lie the table.

upon

pool, in common council assembled, setting forth,

before he roundly asserted any thing for proposition on the subject of the trade with fact, a little to suspect the accuracy of his informant, especially when that informant was a discarded surveyor. If he had made a bargain with an old client, as was insinuated, would not the hon. gentleman PETITION FROM THE CORPORATION OF have acted more fairly, if he had made it LIVERPOOL RESPECTING THE EAST INDIA the subject of a grave charge against him COMPANY'S CHALTER.] General Tarleton for an act, as unworthy a one as could be well imagined? With respect to sur-bailids and burgesses of the town of Liverthen presented a Petition from the mayor, charges generally, there was no intention of making any such agreement, and till the persons making surcharges were examined, it was the greatest assumption which the "That the Petitioners conceive that the hon. gentleman could take upon himself subjects of these realms possess an inherent to suppose they were wrong. Was it not right to a free intercourse of trade with all right that persons assessed should pay other nations and countries in amity with their just proportion to the expence of the this, subject only to such regulations as state; and therefore if they kept back, may be necessary for preserving a good was it not equitable too, that they should understanding with those countries, and be charged to the extent of their liability for securing to our own the revenues deto pay? As to the general question now rivable from such intercourse; and that before the House, he would only add, that the monopoly of the East India Company, if it was injurious to deceive the country however expedient or necessary at the by false representations of the flourishing period of their first charter, is, as the Pestate of its commerce, it was equally in- titioners humbly conceive, in the present jurious, amidst the great interests which state of commerce and of the world, no were at stake, and the great exertions longer so; and it is, moreover, inconsist which were necessary to be made, to ent with those principles which are unidepress the spirits of the people by ex-versally admitted to be essential to the aggerated statements of commercial dis

tress.

Mr. Creevey denied, in explanation, that he had received his information from any discharged officer.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer would merely repeat, that the information was quite new to him, of any person having been appointed to surcharge his neighbours in Liverpool.

The Petition was then brought up and read. On the motion for its being laid on the table,

Mr. Baring repeated his wish that the right hon. gentleman opposite would take this opportunity of explaining the conditions of the proposed licences. He was also anxious to know whether the Chancellor of the Exchequer intended to bring forward this year any proposition on the subject of the East India Company's Charter.

Mr. Rose declined introducing a subject so extraneous to the present petition, but was ready to meet any discussion upon it that the hon. gentleman might propose.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in reply to the question of the right hon. gentleman, wished to give notice, that shortly after the recess he should bring forward a

prosperity of commerce; and that every other nation of Europe being, by the signal success of his Majesty's arms, deprived of all territory and influence in the East Indies, as well as of all means of annoyance to the navigation of those seas, an ample field is now open for the exertion of British skill and enterprize, and for the investment of that capital, which is rendered in a great measure useless, in those channels of trade where it has been heretofore employed; and that the Petitioners, as the guardians of the interests of the town of Liverpool, while they lament the distressing suspension of its commerce at this juncture, cannot but indulge a sanguine hope that the era is arrived which presents to the merchants and traders of Liverpool, in common with those of every part of the British empire, new and brighter prospects, in the participation of a traffic from which they have been hitherto excluded; and that the Petitioners disclaim any wish to interfere with the rights of the East India Company, which they apprehend may be maintained inviolate, without the continuation of a system that infringes the privileges of others; and the Petitioners therefore, reposing with entire confidence in the wisdom and justice of the House,