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Since the charges, amounting to 135,000l. had been taken off the civil list, and that list had been very considerably added to, he could not but think it more eligible to bear this burthen, than that it should be laid on the people. The 30,000l. in the act of the 18th of his Majesty did not seem necessary, so long as the Princesses had their parents' house to reside in; and it was in this view that its provisions were made-but now 36,000l. was proposed, with that conveniency still existing and likely to be taken advantage of. To a new grant, on this ground, he could see no good cause. There were different ways of acquiring popularity; and while some men might make themselves obnoxi

Wales. He could see no reason why the Princess of Wales should be passed over with a comparatively inadequate provision. He had heard the rumour, which he dared say was familiar to them all, of a separation between the high parties in question, but he knew nothing of this parliamentarily, and could only express his opinion, that the sum at present allotted to the Princess of Wales was, considering her situation, insufficient. She was the wife of the Regent, and as much the representative of the Queen as the Regent was the representative of his Majesty. The sum set apart for her was not enough to enable her to support the splendour of the character in the way to which the nation were entitled. But there was no splendourous, by pursuing the line of conduct he there were no drawing rooms-or any expence of this kind now attached to the royal functions, and yet they were called upon, and had augmented the revenues applicable to that purpose. Of the separation to which he had alluded, every one spoke but the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who knew more about it than they did he knew a great deal about it, he had acted as her Royal Highness's counsel in the investigation which had been so much talked of, and if he so thought fit, might afford them information on the subject. It would be better to do this in an open manner, than to suffer his old client to be pared off with so scanty a subsistence-it would be better than to suffer these reports about his favourite Princess to be whispered about.-The right hon. gentleman was once her Royal High. ness's loudest champion, and yet he now consented to allow the Prince Regent's wife to be passed over in this way, at a time when he was proposing provisions so ample to all the other female branches of the royal family.

Mr. William Smith observed, that the present question included so much of a personal nature, that a member, standing forward on the occasion, was liable to be exposed to considerable obloquy. He had, in defiance of this risk, originally opposed the increased grant to the Princes, and now felt it to be his duty to follow the same course with respect to the Princesses. He could see no sort of occasion, at a period when the burthens of the people were so great, and the pressure of the time was so heavily felt by all-he could see no occasion for imposing this new load upon them; so far from it, in his opinion, it ought to be the last thing the House should

was now adopting, others might, by a contrary course, he making themselves acceptable to the higher powers. Few men in the habit of intercourse with those in a superior station, were able to resist the inclination of recommending themselves by consulting the wishes of their superiors; but how could this be reconciled with a sense of public duty? As for the splendour of royalty, he did not believe that the people of this country attached so much weight to that circumstance as the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Tierney) seemed to imagine. They were more interested in questions involving their constitutional liberties and rights. He was not for reducing the throne or its appearance, where that appearance was necessary for the good and credit of the nation; but he was averse to splendour, unconnected with these objects. If they looked to the affairs of Europe for the last ten years, they would see that, in proportion as the liberties of the several states were diminished, the splendours of royalty were increased. This comparison afforded no very happy augury on the present occasion. It had been said that the trappings of royalty were sufficient to maintain a republic. This he deemed to be an absurd idea. His opinions were, that all that tended to the real safety of the state ought to be kept up-that the generosity of the public would amply provide for the expence attendant on this-and that it would be infinitely wiser, in the present situation of the country, for the royal family and its advisers to remember the sacrifices making by all classes to meet the exigencies and pressure of the times, and not to allow the mere decorations of royalty to add to their burthens and distress. One

great miscalculation appeared in this matter-What was given to the chief magistrate ought not to be niggardly, because the honour of the nation was implicated in the manner in which he sustained his rank. But here when, as his hon. friend had stated, the expence had increased while the splendour had diminished, he thought in time that parliament should inquire before it extended that expence. -He could not conclude without saying something about the provision for her royal highness the Princess of Wales. He observed, in the charges upon the civil list, 58,000/. for a queen dowager, who kept no court, and only 20,000l. for a queen who ought to keep a court; and surely that was a division which did not exactly accord with the splendour of the throne. When he considered that, and when he considered too that there had been two large grants made to two persons, without any of that splendour which such grants ought to produce, resulting from them, he thought it infinitely better to postpone the present vote.

Mr. Ponsonby would not think himself justified in voting for the motion, unless some additional reasons were adduced to remove the objections he still had on his mind. He bad himself first objected to the perplexed manner in which the right hon. gentleman had brought forward the measures for the support of the royal family in the present circumstances; he had repeatedly called for a clear and distinct account on that head, and was convinced that the House could not in duty proceed to grant further sums without having first obtained such an account. The present motion was, besides, founded on grounds utterly false; it went, not to fulfil the provisions of former acts, but to anticipate them, and to give the Princesses the present enjoyment of those annuities, which, under those acts, they could not expect till after the demise of the King. The additional grant of 10,000l. to her Majesty had been granted on representations equally fallacious, made by the right hon. gentleman. What reasons did he submit to the House, to induce them to confer that additional 10,000l. a year upon her Majesty? Why, that it was very likely her Majesty would wish to change her residence, and would have to incur increased expences, in consequence of his Majesty's indisposition, whose equipages, carriages, horses, &c. served for the general accommodation of the royal family.

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He did not pretend to know what actual increase of expence had been incurred by her Majesty for horses and carriages since that period, but he knew there was no ap parent increase. A permanent increase of the civil list, to the amount of 70,000l. had afterwards been granted, under the supposition that it would defray all the charges of the former civil list, and that the Princesses would derive the same support from it, and continue to live with the Queen. But it was said now, in support of the present motion, that possibly they would not continue to live with their royal mother. He called upon the right hon. gentleman to reconcile the inconsistency of his different statements. called upon him to state, what reasons he had to think that the Princesses would not continue to live as they had hitherto done. To the increase of the annuities, considering the change of the times, he would not perhaps have a material objection; but the anticipation of those annuities was a question widely different. The Princesses might continue to live with the Queen; his Majesty might still live many years, while the Princesses could enjoy the annuities intended for them by former acts of parliament, only on the demise of their royal father. On these grounds, and however willing he was, and should be at all times, to contribute to the comforts and splendour of the royal family, he must vote against the motion.

Mr. Fremantle thought the proposed measure was due to the Princesses, from the situation in which they stood, and the distinguished and amiable characters they possessed. He certainly was of opinion, that if the enquiry into the civil list was gone into, the charge might be provided for without laying any additional burthen on the people, but in the mean time he could not suspend his vote. His right hon. friend who had just spoken, had asked upon what pretence the anticipation could be justified? he would answer, on the situation in which the Princesses stood, on the wish they must feel to be relieved from the daily observation of domestic calamity within the walls of the palace. The country was called upon, from a consideration of their age and situation, to make the grant. He had lived in the neighbourhood of the Princesses, had witnessed their charity, and heard of the good they did in the neighbourhood around them, and would consent most willingly to afford them the means of continuing

their benefactions. He separated the question entirely from that of the civil list, and should give his vote in favour of it with the most heartfelt satisfaction.

Mr. D. Giddy said, in reply to what had fallen from a right hon. gentleman, that, as chairman of the committee on the civil list expenditure, he should certainly apply to the House for leave to examine persons as well as consider documents, if it should be found necessary for the elucidation of the subject referred to the examination of the committee.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer could not refrain from taking notice of the contradiction between the latter part of the hon. gentleman's speech and that which preceded it. The hon. gentleman concluded by saying, that he would not vote a shilling of the public money till corruption and sinecure places were done away; and yet in the former part of his speech he had asked, why had not the Princess of Wales drawing-rooms like the Queen, and the same state and splendour? The hon. gentleman should have been aware, however, that if she was to have this additional state and splendour, there must be an additional grant of money; and yet the hon. gentleman was not disposed to vote a shilling towards it. As to all the questions which had been put to him on the subject of "the Delicate Investigation," he should say nothing. The difference alluded to was certainly an unfortunate circumstance; but neither as minister, nor confidential adviser of his Royal Highness, did he feel himself called upon to make any specific statement to the House on the subject. With regard to the grant of an additional 10,000l. to the Queen, it was certainly given entirely independent of any consideration on account of the Princesses. The grant was to cover the ad

Mr. Bennet conceived that the present application to parliament for additional sums to the royal family, while there were so many indications of distress throughout almost every part of the country, was exceedingly ill-timed. At any rate, when an application was made on account of the Princesses, he hoped the right hon. gentleman opposite would give them some information, why no suitable provision was to be proposed for the Princess of Wales, the wife of the Prince Regent. He asked the right hon. gentleman, because he was aware, that no one knew more of the subject than he did-no one was more in the secret of what was called "the Delicate Investigation." Why was she now, as wife of the Prince Regent, not to have the same state, the same draw-ditional expences to which her Majesty was ing-rooms, and the same splendour, as the likely to be put, in the present unfortunate wife of the King? What was there that situation of her royal husband, being dehad happened which made it improper prived of the assistance which she would that she should appear in the station of a otherwise have derived from the royal estaqueen at a time that her husband per- blishment. In proposing it he had stated, formed the functions of royalty, and re- that, as it could not be the wish of the presented the person of the King? Every House absolutely to compel her Majesty body had heard a good deal about books to reside constantly in the palace at Windthat were to have been published, and li- sor, it would be necessary to make an adbels that were suppressed; and they had ditional grant in order to allow her to seen advertisements in the newspapers of change her residence if she thought profering large sums of money for suppressed per. With respect to the increase of the copies of these libellous books. Now civil list, as to which much had been said, there certainly must be considerable in- it was to be borne in mind, that though formation in some quarter or other about there was an increase of expence to the these matters, and as the right hon. gentle- country, yet there was a diminution to the man had been long the confidential adviser Prince of Wales, when compared with and counsellor of her Royal Highness, he what was received by his father. It was hoped that he would not now desert his undoubtedly true, that the maintenance of friend in her utmost need, but that he the two separate establishments of his Mawould state what was the reason for her jesty and the Prince of Wales, would rebeing so neglected and passed by upon quire a larger sum than what would have this occasion. As for himself, he did not sufficed for his Majesty alone. When he feel disposed to vote another shilling until was upon the subject of the civil list, he the corrupt expenditure of the public mo- would state that he was sure what had ney was restrained, and the necessary re- been said by an hon. gentleman was a trenchments made, both as to sinecures mere inadvertency; but though the suband other branches of the public expence.ject was perfectly well understood in the

House, it was not understood elsewhere; for this had frequently been made a subject of wilful misrepresentation; and it had been contended that the whole of the civil list was disposable by his Majesty at his pleasure. With regard to the increase of the civil list, on account of the Royal Family, undoubtedly a family so large as her Majesty the Queen had been blessed with, did require a large sum from the nation; but it was unfair to consider the 218,000l. appropriated for this purpose, as an addition to the civil list expenditure, and to blend together in one list the expences of the younger branches of the family and the expences of the Prince of Wales. This was not a fair representation of the civil list. It was unfair to make any comparison between a civil list with the addition of so numerous a family, and a civil list before that family was in existence. The present situation of his Majesty naturally brought the present provision to the Princesses before the House. They were now equally, as in the case of his demise, deprived of the countenance and protection of their sovereign and their father. It was no doubt true, as had been stated by the right hon. gentleman, that the Princesses would be enabled to live with more splendour if they lived together; but the House would surely not eke and measure out their bounty to them in such a way as to compel them to live together. It was highly probable, however, that they would continue to live as they had hitherto done. Such would undoubtedly be their wish, as it must be the wish of every body else. The right hon. gentleman again (Mr. Ponsonby) thought that nothing whatever ought to be done on the present occasion; that the grant to the Princesses ought to be in a contingent situation so long as his Majesty should continue in existence, and that the Princesses, at whatever period of life they might be arrived, should always be necessarily resident in the house of the King and Queen. When the House, however, came to take into their consideration the situation of these persons, their time of life, and the amiable character they had always maintained, he did not believe they would be inclined to deal with them in so hard a manner. It appeared to him, that there could indeed be no reasonable expectation that the result of any inquiries made by committees of that House, would point out any savings sufficient to supersede the necessity of coming to par

liament for a provision for the Princesses, and it did not seem to him, therefore, to be proper, that the subject should be postponed till such an enquiry should be concluded. At all events, he thought the grant of what was necessary should be made now, and the savings which the committee should recommend might be made afterwards.

Mr. Whitbread rose to defend the alleged inconsistency in the speech of his hon. friend (Mr. Bennet) who opposed the addition to the expenditure of the Civil List, and yet thought that an addition ought to be made to the income of the Princess Regent. It appeared to him, that in this there was no inconsistency; because his honourable friend and himself had no doubt, that if the expenditure were properly looked into, such retrenchments might be made as would enable the Princess Regent to be put in a situation to maintain such a splendour, as was suitable to her high rank in this country. Surely in this there was no inconsistency; and it was a fearful thing, and a just cause of alarm to the country, that notwithstanding all the grants which they had so lately made to the Prince Regent, if that happy restoration took place, an event which every person in the country most anxiously looked to, the right hon. gentleman would still come down to the House with fresh demands on the people. The right hon. gentleman had told the House, that neither as servant of the crown, nor as adviser of his Royal Highness, would he say any thing on this subject; but the time was, when the right hon. gentleman had not only said much on the subject, but had taken such measures as would have enabled all his Majesty's subjects to understand it.

It was well known, that a book had been prepared by the right hon. gentleman for publication; that out of some fund, whether public or private he could not tell, the expence of the printing of this book was defrayed; that measures were taken that not only the subjects of this kingdom, but all the continent of Europe, should be made acquainted with it, but that suddenly the book had been suppressed, and the outstanding copies bought up at an enormous price, proceeding from what quarter he knew not. It appeared to him, therefore, that as counsel for her royal highness the Princess Regent formerly, and as the present adviser of the Prince Regent, the right hon. gentleman was placed in a situation which above all others

made it necessary for him to speak out on the present occasion. He could not conceive that the right hon. gentleman would now feel an inclination to be mute, when 80 recently he was disposed to have ten thousand tongues. For his part he would say, that not only was there no proportion between the sums of 58,000l. appropriated to the Queen, and the allowance to her royal highness the Princess Regent, but considering also, that this was not the sole allowance to the Queen, and that provision was also made for her at the royal table and otherwise, the different situation of the Princess of Wales, whom the public only knew to be living in retirement, sometimes at Blackheath, and sometimes at Kensington, could not fail to strike every person in the community. All that the public knew of her Royal Highness was, that she was not in the situation in which she ought to be; although the right hon. gentleman had written a book in her favour. They knew moreover that if ever she were to be put on a footing corresponding to her rank, they would be called upon for a fresh grant of money. The right hon. gentleman had told them, that the enquiry could be carried on as well after the present grant as before it. But it was very well known that the right hon. gentleman was very skilful when it suited his purpose, so to assort and regulate the documents produced by him, as to give that length to any enquiry which he thought proper. If the grant however were made dependent on the enquiry, the committee on the Civil List would not have the same long and unsatisfactory papers as they now had laid before them; and the chairman of the committee would soon find that many living witnesses would be speedily brought forward to remove every doubt or obstruction. He therefore conceived that when he opposed the resolution he was acting in consistency with his former vote for postponing the committee for a month.

Mr. Wynn thought it very unfair to rest the present question upon the merits and the virtues of the Princesses, who were the immediate subjects of the present discussion. This was invidious, as it threw a kind of odium on those who might oppose the grant, as if they were not as ready as others to acknowledge those merits and those virtues. The liberal grants, however, which parliament had formerly voted for the royal family, were not intended merely for their support, but for the support also

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of that splendour and dignity which was supposed to become the royal station, and for the benefit of the nation. It had, however, been complained of by many, that with increasing grants, we had diminished splendour. While the King enjoyed his health, he always kept up a court. He used to have two levees and a drawingroom in the week, which gave his subjects, and particularly those who had petitions to present, sufficient access to his throne. Now these levees were very rare indeed; and subjects had had hitherto less access to the throne than when the King was in health. In the course of the present year only one court had been held. There was another point on which he wished for explanation: 70,000l. per annum had been granted as payment of certain debts which ought never to have been named in that House, as having been contracted in defiance of, and in the very teeth of an act of parliament. He would wish to know how long that 70,000l. annually was to be paid, or, when those debts of which parliament knew nothing should be satisfied, to what uses this sum would be applied ?

Mr Ponsonby felt himself called upon, to reply to something which had fallen from the right hon. gentleman opposite. He was, however, in part anticipated in what he wished to observe by his hon. friend, who had just sat down; because in his opinion, nothing was so unfair as to throw any thing like an odium on those who opposed such a measure as the present, by inferring that they entertained an inadequate opinion of the merits and characters of those, who were the objects of the bounty of the House. The merit of the Princesses made no part of the object of consideration of the House, otherwise, this grant would have been made many years ago; because they did not come into all the good qualities which they were in possession of, since the commencement of his Majesty's unfortunate malady. They were amiable before this period; but this was no part of the consideration of the case. The question was merely whether parliament ought to anticipate the period when they were engaged to make provision for the Princesses? The grounds which the House ought to consider, were, whether the Princesses were likely to be put into a situation speedily to incur greater expences than their present income could afford? But on this subject, the right hon. gentleman had no

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