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House to require, and as to the House may lic would derive great benefit from the seem expedient, in a matter of such se- erection of sea water baths, at least he rious importance to the British empire.” hoped the House would allow it to go to a Ordered to lie upon the table.
The House divided on the second read. SEA-WATER Baths Bill.] Mr. Peter ing now-Ayes 17; Noes 29. Majority Moore presented three several Petitions in against it 12. erection of Sea Water Baths in the vicinity MOTION RESPECTING MARTINICO SUGARS of the metropolis. The first Petition was ADMITTED INTO IRELAND.) Sir John Newfrom the members of the royal college of port observed, that he had given notice of physicians, setting forth the great utility ihis motion last session, but owing to the of these Baths, as necessary to the com- delay which generally took place in the fort and convenience of the inhabitants of printing of papers relating to Ireland, he the metropolis, as being highly beneficial had not been able to bring it forward at to the health of the inhabitants in the cure that time. He then went into a minute of cutaneous and eruptive disorders. The statement of a transaction which had taken next Petition was from the inbabitants of place in Ireland, in the year 1810. An the city and liberties of Westminster, to individual had, at that period, introduced the same effect, and the third Petition was a cargo of Martinico sugars, for which he from the inhabitants of the city of London, was required to pay the foreign, instead of stating similar benefits as likely to arise, if the British colonial duties, as he had been led the House would permit the Bill to pass to expect by the Custom-house officers at into a law. The Petitions were laid on Martinico. On this he presented a memothe table.
rial to the lord lieutenant, stating his griev. Mr. P. Moore then moved the second ances, and praying for a remedy. The reading of the above Bill.
sugars were then allowed to be wareAdmiral Harvey opposed it, principally housed; and after a considerable time part on the ground that some of the landed of those sugars were allowed to be sold properties in Essex, either were against it, for the home consumption, the rest being or at least remained neuter. He therefore liable to the foreign duties.
The right moved, that instead of “ Now," the Bill be hon. baronet censured that constant interread the second time this day six months. ference of the Irish executive govern
Lord Henniker supported the motion. ment in revenue affairs, instead of referring
Mr. Moore observed, that as the two them to the treasury, as was uniformly hon. members had objected to the progress the case in this country. This interference, of the Bill in perfect good humour, and he maintained, would ever prevent any not having stated one real solid objection proper order in the administration of reto the Bill passing into a law, and after venue in Ireland. He concluded by move the royal college of physicians and the ing the following Resolutions : 1. « That, cities of London and Westminster had on the 31st of December 1810, a Petition come forward in favour of it, he thought to the lord lieutenant of Ireland for admisthe House would allow it to go into a com- sion of a cargo of Martinico sugars, on mittee. With respect to the Bill itself, of payment of British colonial duty, was re209 persons stated to be interested in op- ferred to the board of customs, who reposing its progress, 104 had given their ported that they could not be admitted to assent, 86 were neuter, because as their entry but on payment of foreign duty, names were not in the papers, they were conformably to the 49th Geo. 3, c. 61, as not consulted, and only 19 dissented. So stated by the attorney general to the that, in a line of 40 ntiles, which the works board. 2. That, on the ilth of January, necessary for completing the undertaking 1811, the said sugars were landed on bond would occupy, there were 7-8ths of the and stored, in conformity to the order of parties interested in favour of it.
the lord lieutenant. 3. That, on the 6th Mr. Hume supported the Bill, as tending of February, a Petition for liberty to disto the comfort of the metropolis, and pose of 40 hogsheads of the said sugars, stated, that in the committee, the pro- alleged to be damaged, and of the reposers would be prepared to prove that mainder of the said cargo, on payment of 7-8ths of the county of Essex had given British duty, was referred to the board of their consent.
customs, who reported, on the 13th of Mr. Curwen conceived, that as the pub- March, that, in conformity to the attorney general's and board counsel's opinion, that pers were not produced. The simple facts the said 40 hogsheads, and such other part of the case were, that the person alluded of the cargo as the merchant thought fit, to by the right hon. baronet had imported might be disposed of, on payment of Bri- a large quantity of Martinico sugar into tish colonial duty, provided a sufficient Ireland, under the idea that he should quantity remained in store to satisfy the only be charged the British colonial du. higher duty, should the same be there. ties, not the foreign duties, and upon findafter required,” they had ordered the said ing that he had been misinformed with sugars to be entered accordingly. 4. That, respect to the law upon the subject, he on the 8th and 9th of March, 250 hogs. had applied to the executive power for heads, part of the said sugars were en- redress. The right hon. baronet had con. tered on payment of 1l. 78. per cwt. in tended, that the lord lieutenant, by means place of 21. 98. 5d. the foreign duty to of his secretary or under secretary, which they were liable, making a differ- ought not to have interfered, but that the ence of 2,9651. which balance was not interference with the revenue board, if it paid in to the revenue of Ireland until the was necessary, should have been by the 14th of January following. 5. That, on treasury. This was the first time he had the 15th of March, the lord lieutenant's ever heard it stated, that if a person aporder was signified, to suspend the execu-plied to the executive government, pray. tion of the said order, which had been al- ing for relief, that the application ought ready carried into effect on the 6th and not to be attended to. He agreed with 9th of the said month. 6. That, on the the right hon. baronet, that when the in26th of April, another application for diso terference did take place, it would have charge of the rest of the said sugars, on
been better if notice had been given to payment of British colonial duty, was re- the treasury, because, in all cases of this ferred to the board of customs, and, on kind, he was of opinion that the treasury the authority of the attorney general, ne- ought to be consulted, or to have notice gatived, and payment of the balance of given to it of the transaction.
With reduty on the former sugars directed to be spect to the present case, he was at a loss enforced. 7. That all these orders were to conceive what it was that the right hon. conveyed from the lord lieutenant to the baronet complained of: the revenue had board of customs by the under secretary sustained no loss, for he himself admitted in the civil department without the inter- that every farthing of the duties had been vention of the board of treasury, although paid. When the individual first applied the 35 Geo. 3, c. 28, s. 22, Irish statute, by to the Irish government, the opinion of which that board is established, entrusts to the attorney-general was taken upon it, it the duty of superintending and controul and upon that opinion the sugars were aling the collection and management of the lowed to be landed. It was true that a revenue of Ireland in all its branches. part of these sugars were allowed to be 8. That, from June 1811 to March 1812, taken out of the stores, and sold for home when the remaining sugars, 200 hogsheads, consumption, paying the smaller duties, were entered for exportation on payment and he would state the reason of it. When of foreign duty, the whole proceedings in this person imported this large quantity of this case were directed by the board of Martinico sugars into Ireland, he had entreasury, communicating with the board of tered into several engagements which he customs, according to the intent and mean. meant to liquidate with the produce of ing of the last-mentioned act of parlia- these sugars, and in consequence of an ment.”
application from him, he was allowed to Mr. W. Pole said, he certainly should sell a part of the sugars; but enough was not take up the time of the House by fol. received in the king's stores to cover the lowing the right hon. baronet through the whole of the foreign duties, not only upon details into which he had though proper what was sold, but upon what was retainto enter, particularly as the right hon. ba- ed in the stores. If this permission had ronet had admitted that, since the month not been granted, the man must have beof April last, all the steps which had been come a bankrupt, and it appeared very taken in this business had met with his hard to place a man in that situation, approbation. With respect to the delay when he had property to so large amount which took place last session, it arose from in the king's warehouses.
Upon the the unfortunate illness of the right hon. whole, he was at a loss to conceive what baronet himself, and not because the pa was the complaint which the right hon.
baronet intended to make against the go- right hon. gentleman opposite was sensivernment of Ireland. The case of this in- ble of the serious responsibility under dividual had been examined with the which he laboured on this subject. greatest care and attention, and it was not Mr. W. Pole assured the right hon. ba. pretended that the revenue had sustained ronet, that he was fully sensible of the seihe slightest loss. Under these circum- rious responsibility which attached to him stances, he should certainly oppose the in the discharge of his official duties. To motion.
be reminded of this, he need only look at Mr. Parnell condemned generally the the public prints in Ireland, in which, policy on which the financial concerns of while on the one hand the distresses of the Ireland were conducted.
people of Ireland were exaggerated in the The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, this most unjustifiable manner, a kind of prowas the most extraordinary motion he had clamation was issued on the other for vi. ever known to be attempted to be brought siting all those distresses on his head. before the House. No ground had been Still, however, he was firmly determined laid before them, no character had been not to come forward and propose to para given to the resolutions either of praise or liament what he could not but consider a blame; and as so much of the time of the most calamitous measure, namely, the House had been already taken up to no total stoppage of the distillation from grain, purpose, he felt
his duty to move the until he should be in possession of docuprevious question.
ments of so cogent a nature as to shew the Sir J. Newport insisted that a character indispensable necessity of such a proceed. had been given to the resolutions. One ing. Whenever that might be the case, of them particularly complained, that the he trusted that he should not be found dis-, regulation of the duties on excise and cus posed to shrink from his duty. He admit. toms bad been assumed and acted on by ted that every post did, bring additional the executive power, without any applica- information on this subject of an unpleatjon to the board of treasury, to which de- sant nature, and that the post of this day partment they belonged. That when he had conveyed to him the unwelcome inshewed this io the late Chancellor of the telligence, that corn in Ireland was still Irish Exchequer he was absolutely amazed higher even than he anticipated it would at the transaction, and could scarcely be; but he repeated, that government bring himself to credit it : but the fact kept a watchful eye on what was passing was, that of which another of the resolu- in that country, and that they might pertions complained, namely, that the right haps soon feel it to be their duty to prohon. Secretary had a preponderating in- pose further measures to counteract the fluence in Ireland,--that he was the sole evil. organ of government, and no other person Sir John Newport disclaimed all intenhad any will under it. The right hon. tion of throwing any censure on the right gentleman himself had frequently pro-hon. gentleman. His information had claimed it to the House, and it was now been derived, not from the Irish newsfully evinced. He was therefore sur papers, but from respectable individuals, prised the right hon. gentleman should some of whom were known to the right have stept in with the previous question. hon. gentleman, and who entertained for
A division then took place on the origi- him a high regard. nal question. For the Resolutions il; The Resolution was agreed to, and a Bill Against them 36.
ordered accordingly. EXPORTATION OF Irish Spirits.] Mr. IRISH FINANCE COMMITTEE, Sir John Wharton brought up the Report of the Newport, in pursuance of the notice he had Committee on the Suspension of the Ex- given, rose, to move for the addition of portation of Spirits from Ireland. On the six members to the committee for exa. motion that it be agreed to,
mining into the state of the revenue and Sir J. Newport intreated government not expenditure in Ireland. Among the names to protract any measures which they he should propose, were those of Mr. might have in view for the relief of the Shaw, of Dublin, Mr. Johnstone, and lord people of Ireland in the present scarcity Archibald llamilton. On the name of of grain. Every day's post brought ad. the first of those gentlemen being put ditional proofs of the existence and the from the chair, pressure of that scarcity, and he hoped the Mr. Pole said, the fact was, that there were several documents which were ne- No answer being given, cessary for the committee to have before Mr Whitbread said, that though the them, which were not yet produced, and Vice-President of the Board of Trade was that the thin attendance was not attribu- not présent, still he thought, when the aptable to any neglect on the part of the pearance of scarcity was so alarining as members. He considered, therefore, that it was at this moment, that it would be any addition was wholly unnecessary:
becoming in the right hon. gentleman Sir J. Newport said, that while the right to give some answer to the question hon. gentleman admitted the fact of non- which had been put to him by his hon. attendance, he seemed to consider it no friend; or, if he was not prepared to do evil. It was extraordinary that he should so now, that the matter should stand over appear to suppose that the committee till to-morrow, and that, in the mean were to meet or not as he pleased to time, the sailing of any vessels in such direct.
circumstances should be suspended. The Chancellor of the Exchequer hoped The Chancellor of the Ercheguer said, he the right bon. baronet had never found understood the question to be, whether there any disposition not to accommodate, and were not some vessels in the river, having he was quite sure that if the right hon. licences to France, with rice on board? baronet had any proposition to make at He was not aware whether there were or any time to the committee, he, for his were not any vessels in that situation. part, would be inost desirous to meet his There, no doubt had been licences grantwishes. He was satisfied that a sufficient ed to export articles not prohibited, and number of members were present if any as the law stood there being nothing to business was before them.
prohibit the exportation of rice, that are Sir J. Newport, though he should not ticle of course would be comprehended press a division, yet he protested against under the general licence. There had the opposition made to his motion. The recently, he believed, been a communicacommittee had been appointed last ses- lion made on the subject of the scarcity sion, at the recommendation of the throne, of this article, in consequence of which, and nothing had yet been done of any in all licences since granted, the word consequence ; it was a delusion upon the “ Rice” had been excluded. How far it country, and he therefore hoped, as the would have been proper, as rice was not right hon. gentleman was about to pro: a prohibited article, to prevent the exporpose lord Castlereagh's name to be added tation of any cargo already shipped under to the committee, that he would substi- a licence previously granted, he thought tute it in the place of his, as he could not was a matter of serious consideration. It remain a member where he could be of seemed to him to be extremely doubtful no service.
how far, in these circumstances, a mere Mr. W. Pole expressed his concern at chant ought to be deprived of the best the wish of the right hon. baronet, whose market he could get; and it even seemed services on the committee were so highly to be of serious consideration, whether the valuable, and whose absence from it would knowledge of such a regulation might not be so severely felt. He assured him prevent the importation of the article, pare tbat as far as his business would permit, ticularly from America. he would give his attendance to the com- Mr. Whitbread thought the first question mittee, and endeavour to meet his wishes.
was, what would be the best mode of apThe motion was then withdrawn, and plying the rice now in this country, whethe name of lord Castlereagh added to the ther to keep it to ourselves, or to export committee.
it for the use of our enemies? As to what
had fallen from the right hon. gentleman EXPORTATION OF Rice) Mr. Lyttelton in regard to America, he confessed he was not seeing the Vice-President of the Board surprised that the right hon. gentleman of Trade in his place, begged to ask of should have made any reference to that the right hon. the Chancellor of the Ex- country, when he considered in what ise chequer whether he was correct in cer. tuation he himself stood_who he was tain information he had received, that and what had been his conduct in regard there were at this moment ships in the to America. He really thought, in the river, having cargoes of rice on board, situation in which the right hon. gentle. with licences to proceed with the same lo man stood, he needed not have applied ports in France.
any of his general principles to America. (VOL. XXII.)
The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he was in receipt of 5,0001. as President of had not forgotten who or what he was, the Board of Controul, ascending together but had thrown out what he had said only to the enormous sum of 17,0001. a year. as reasons against interfering with licences He put it to the right hon. gentleman already granted.
over the way, whether this amount of Mr. Lyttleton hoped he should have re- public money was not too much to be asceived a more pointed answer, whether signed to one individual. He understood, licences were, in the present circumstances that lord Melville had thought right to of the country, granted for the exporta. relinquish the tellership of the Exchequer tion of so necessary an article.
he formerly held, and was content with The Chancellor of the Exchequer said he the 5,0001. per annum be obtained as first had already stated, that many licences lord of the Admiralty. He trusted that had been granted generally, which com- this act of liberality would have its due prehended rice, as not being a prohibited effect upon the mind of the earl of Buckarticle. Since communications on the inghamshire, and concluded by moving subject had been made to the Board of " That there be laid before this House, Trade, the article of rice had been uniform- copies of all warrants under his Majesty's ly excepted; but if the hon. gentleman sign manual, directing the amount of the meant to contend, that where the licences salaries to lord viscount Melville, late had been granted generally, and cargoes President of the Board of Controul, and of rice had been shipped, the exportation to the earl of Buckinghamshire, now Preought still to be stopped, he had not the sident of the Board of Controul, under smallest doubt that the hon. gentleman and hy virtue of the act 51 Geo, 3, c. 75." would require an act of parliament for that The Chancellor of the Exchequer observed, purpose.
that undoubtedly one object of the act of Here the matter ended.
last session was to increase the salary of
Mr. Dundas, who then discharged the PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF CONTROUL.] arduous duties of the President of the Mr. Creevey rose, in pursuance of his no- Board alluded to. He admitted that it tice, to move for copies of the Patents, had been strenuously resisted by the hon. under which lord Melville, and the earl gentleman, but his objections had been of Buckinghamshire, were appointed to over-ruled by the better judgment of the the office of President of the Board of House. Lord Melville, however, upon Controul. He observed, that in 1784, his nomination to the situation he now when the Board of Controul was nomi- beld, had resigned the office previously nated, none of the members belonging to occupied by his late father, of privy seal which were to receive salary, but the Pre- of Scotland, with the salary annexed to it. sident had been allowed 2,0001. per an. If the hon. gentleman expected that sinenum, which he received up to last year. cure offices were to be held without the In that session, a Bill was brought in for receipt of any salary, it was a new prinits augmentation, and 22,0001. had been ciple not yet recognized by parliament. voted for that purpose. His object, there- Individuals who under the last administrafore, by this motion was, to ascertain tion held situations to which no public what further sum had been given to lord duty was attached, did not think it nee Melville who lately held, and to lord cessary to set an example which was now Buckinghamshire, who now filled the considered so laudable. It would not now office of President of the Board. The be denied that the earl of Buckingham. former of these noblemen bad been in shire was entitled to an adequate reward possession of a a Scotch sinecure, produce for the execution of public duties of great ing 2,500l. per annum, of the place of lord importance, but, filling this new office privy seal of Scotland, yielding 3,5001. under the East India Company, he had and of 5,0001. under the act of last session, thought it right to resign the annuity of making together 10,0001. a year. The 1,5001. as governor of Madras. As the earl of Buckinghamshire bad a sinecure the papers now required would in the reand salary, as having served the office of gular course of business be laid before parchief secretary for Ireland, of 11,0001. liament, he thought the motion unneces. per annum, besides 1,5002. given to him sary, but if it were persisted in he should by the East India Company, in considera- not resist it. tion of his having served the office of go- Mr. Whitbread wished to put a question vernor of Madras, and his lordship now of some importance to the right bon, the