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sure, and as he thought it ought in justice to be extended to Ireland, he would not consent to any delay which would have the effect of precluding it.

those for 99 years, and for ever, had greater interests in their lands than the landlords. The right hon. gentleman might expect, by this measure, to acquire popularity

Mr. Pole rose to order, and enquired of the Speaker if this was explanation?

The Speaker said, the right hon. gentleman professed to speak merely in explanation, and he thought he had as yet done so.

Mr. Ponsonby was glad that the chair considered him not out of order, though had he been so, and interrupted as being so by the hon. gentleman, he would not have been interrupted by one who had been very remarkable for his own punctilious adherence to order.

excited if it were not extended to Ireland, and not if it were extended, as argued by the right hon. baronet. He agreed with the gentlemen on the other side as to the difference of the land tenures in the Mr. Ponsonby, in explanation, said he had two countries; but he drew a different con. never called the law of last session a benefit clusion from that fact: for, what would to England, and therefore could not be be the situation of the seven-eighths of represented as wishing to withhold that Ireland, in which now, as was confessed benefit from Ireland. He had never reon all sides, gold and notes were received presented all the tenants in Ireland for indiscriminately, if the law was not ex-three lives as rich, but only that some of tended? The right hon. baronet and right bon. gentleman spoke with great feeling about the landlords, who, in common with the tenants over this part of the country, had all their dealings in paper equally as in gold; but they would subject the te nants to the liability of being called on for 5s. 6d. premium for every pound they had contracted to pay. He would suppose another case not very improbable:-sup pose a tenant had last year fined down his rent from 500l. to 250l. a year, by the payment of a fair sum; if this law were not extended he would be left liable to an additional charge of one-fourth more, or 20 per cent. Did not the tenant, in these cases, stand in need of relief? and yet these were the tender mercies of these Lord A. Hamilton was in favour of the right hon. gentlemen towards them. All he adjournment, and thought the gentlemen asked for was, security to the tenantry opposite had, in their arguments to-night, in Ireland similar to that enjoyed by the admitted what they had formerly denied tenantry in this country-but this the-that paper was depreciated. In the same right hon. baronet called revolutionary. The right hon. gentleman talked of their not legislating equally towards the two countries, while, by a wonderful perversion of the understanding, he was objecting to their extending the benefit of the law from the one to the other, and not leaving the tenant in Ireland exposed to the ban of the landlord, from which in England they had rescued him.-With regard to the depreciation that had existed, in contradiction to the right hon. gentleman, he maintained, that while for four years after the period alluded to the paper in England had remained stationary in value-that of Ireland rose to par with it. The right hon. gentleman would also induce them to believe that all tenants in Ireland were rich, and therefore they ought to be left liable to be charged one-fourth more than their agreed rent. Had he forgot the forty shilling freeholders? Were they rich men, and would not they be the first, through the middle men who oppressed them, to feel the effects of the tenderness of the right hon. gentleman? He concluded by saying he had always approved of the mea

breath however that they argued that the Irish tenant, if this Bill did not pass, would be obliged to buy guineas at 26 shillings a piece to pay his rent, they contended that paper and gold were equivalent. He was asked if he would not give the same benefit to Ireland as to this country? But might not the same measure to persons in diametrically opposite conditions, be of a very different character; and was it not even confessed, that the effect of this Bill would be different on the northern part and in the other parts of Ireland. He objected to the measure altogether, as con. nected with a fallacious line of policy.

Mr. Herbert supported the Bill.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer admitted that there were parts of Ireland to which the Bill would not readily apply, but it applied to much the greater part of that country; and it would be most unjust to permit the Irish landlord to drag his tenant to prison for non-payment in coin, while the landlord enjoyed no such power in this part of the empire. He allowed there was some difference in the state of the countries, but as at least four-fifths of Ire

produce of the taxes for the year ending the 5th of April, 1812, amounted to 61,333,000l. The revenue amounted to 62,136,000l. on the 5th of April, 1811; and the defalcation this year would not exceed between 8 and 900,000l. which, considering the falling-off' in the customs, afforded by no means an unsatisfactory view of the finances of the country. This information he had thought it right to communicate, as calculated to afford considerable satisfaction to the House, and, to shew that, whatever theories might be advanced, they had here the practice before them to prove that, with the circulation as established by law, they could support the revenue as it was. If his hon. friend's theory about paying in gold was right, they would be in no better situation by adopting it; but if erroneous, they would find they had been trying an experiment very fatal to the country. He trusted the House would therefore agree with him that there was not the slightest ground for alarm, and that they would not permit the extension of so beneficial a measure as the one now proposed to be retarded.

land was acknowledged to be in the same state as England, and as the only dissimilarity existed in a few counties in the north, in the choice of difficulties before them he was of opinion that sound policy and justice required them to extend their protection to the major part. With regard to the principle of the measure, the House had been told, that it would lead us into the same gulph of calamity with other nations whose paper currency had gone to ruin. Now, if such reasoning was correct, and such was the tendency of the Bill, we ought to have seen, at least, part of those.dangers and calamities produced by the similar act of last year. During the operation of that act, if the reasoning of the gentlemen opposite was correct, the country ought to have seen a multiplication of paper, a rise in the price of bullion, and a regular depression of the foreign exchanges. But instead of all this, the very reverse was the case. The quantity of paper now in circulation was rather smaller than it was in last April. The exchanges were considerably improved, instead of growing systematically worse. In April of last year they were 30 per cent. below par; in July 25 per cent. then again 30, but now they were only at 14. This improvement had not only taken place on the exchanges with Hamburgh, but also on those with Paris, which in this month were at 184, while in April of last year they were at 25. Instead of gold having risen, it had considerably fallen in price; all which circumstances shewed, that there was a complete distinction between the paper of the bank of England, as connected with the dealings of this House with regard to it, and the paper currency of other nations, which had been held up as a warning to this country. He had also the satisfaction of stating, that notwithstanding the distresses of our manufactures in various parts of the kingdom, the home consumption of excisable articles had rather increased than diminished. In the year ending the 5th of April, 1812, the excise had produced 17,950,000l., while last year the same branch of revenue was only 17,399,000l. This increase of 600,000l. might in part arise from some small additional taxation last year; but he believed he was justified in stating, that 400,000l. of it arose from an increased consumption of excisable articles. It was true the branch of customs bad suffered considerably; but he was now enabled to state, that the general

Mr. Thompson said, he differed entirely from all the opinions of the hon. gentleman (Mr. Johnstone). He had never known or heard of any bank that deserved to be compared to the bank of England, or whose credit had ever risen to any thing like an equality with the credit of the latter. He had heard much of depreciation arising from excess, but he confessed he saw no evidence of such excess. Gold indeed had risen in price as wheat had lately, from scarcity, and scarcity alone. The real wealth of a country, however did not consist in any amount of the precious metals, but in the amount of its effective labour, and if the export trade could but be re-opened, all our difficulties would disappear. The hon. gentleman had said, that the country bankers ought to be compelled to pay the twelve millions of small notes which they had issued, in cash; but it was rather hard to talk of forcing the country bankers to perform impossibilities. They had hitherto acted from a desire to accommodate, in the full confidence of the solvency and wealth of the Bank, and had first limited their issues far below the real amount of gold in their possession. He could not but be struck with the doleful tone in which the hon. member concluded. He had himself no such despondency, and considered the cases referred to as altogether inapplicable

to such an institution as the Bank, and to the present condition and circumstances of the country. If the people were unanimous, he had no doubt but that we should weather the storm, and find a natural remedy for the difficulties that surrounded As to what had been said on the connection between government and the Bank, he was fully persuaded of the perfect independence of the Directors.

us.

Mr. D. Magens spoke against the measure, as belonging to a line of policy calculated to throw the country into a state of instability.

Mr. Bankes acknowledged that the principles of political economy were strongly, against the Bill, while it was supported by reasons of immediate expediency. Where there was only a choice of difficulties, he would submit to that which appeared the more tolerable, and in that view should support the Bill going into a committee.

Mr. James Stewart thought if it did not extend to Ireland that it would tend to the oppression of that country; on which account he would give his full support to the measure.

The House then divided on the question for going into a Committee:

List of the Minority.

Bennet, hon. H.

Ayes...
Noes

Majority

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Canning, George

Colborne, R.

Creevey, T.

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..87
.27

Lamb, W.
Lyttelton, W. H.
Marryatt, J.
Morris, R.
Newport, Sir J.
Osborne, Lord F.
Ponsonby, G.
Power, R.
Taylor, W.
Tierney, G.
Thornton, H.
Wynn, C. W.
TELLERS.

neighbourhood, was presented and read; setting forth,

"That the various insurmountable impediments which the present deranged state of Europe opposes to British commerce, have impressed the minds of the petitioners with the deepest concern and alarm: a decreased and still decreasing trade cannot but be, in its ultimate consequences, ruinous to a very large and valuable portion of his Majesty's subjects, whose exertions, however prompt and assiduous they may be, must necessarily fail of producing the usual effects of well directed industry, for want of having a secure and sufficienly extensive field open to their commercial pursuits; and, that, under these circumstances, the petitioners look forward with great anxiety to the approaching expiration of those exclusive privileges which have been conceded for a limited period to the East India Company, and they cannot refrain from humbly expressing to the House their decided opinion that the renewal of such a commercial monopoly, in the present situation of the empire, would be a measure of the most fatal policy, which, by subjecting the efforts of individual enterprize to unreasonable restraint, must diminish alike the sources of private wealth and of national revenue; and that the -60 petitioners beg leave to represent to the House, that, however necessary exclusive privileges of this nature may have been in the infant state of India commerce, the continuation of them is now no longer justified by necessity; and that the monopoly in question is attended with this peculiar circumstance of hardship, that, while it excludes the British merchants from all participation in trade with the countries between the Cape of Good Hope and the Streights of Magellan, the advan tages to be derived from that commerce are open to all foreigners in amity with Great Britain, by whom a considerable portion of this very trade is now actually carried on, with the permission and under the encouragement of the British government, a fact which in itself alone affords a decisive answer to the argument which has often been urged with apparent confidence in favour of this monopoly, that the capitals of private adventurers are inadequate to the prosecution of so extensive and distant a trade; and that the petitioners cannot doubt but that, in whatever point of view this monopoly may be considered, either with regard to the unreasonableness of the privilege itself, or its injurious effect

Parnell, H.
Folkestone, Viscount

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Monday, April 13.

PETITIONS FROM NEWCASTLE, LEITH, EDINBURGH, STAFFORDSHIRE, AND WOLVERHAMPTON, RESPECTING THE RENEWAL OF THE EAST INDIA COMPANY'S CHARTER.] "A Petition of the merchants, ship-owners, manufacturers, and others interested in the trade and manufactures of the town of Newcastle upon Tyne, and its port and

upon the general trading interests of the community, the abolition of it must appear to be essentially necessary, as the most powerful, if not the only means, now left to this country, of securing her manufactures, her commerce, and her navigation, from an overwhelming distress in consequence of the very limited intercourse now left to British subjects with the European continent; and praying the House to adopt such measures as to them may seem most expedient to secure to the subjects of the British empire at large, from the expiration of the present Charter of the East India Company, a free trade with those extensive countries from which, by virtue of that charter, they have hither to been entirely excluded."

A Petition of the merchant company of Leith, was also presented and read; setting forth,

"That, although the petitioners do not call in question the wisdom of granting originally to the East India Company a monopoly of the trade of those vast regions, yet they do not hesitate to declare that, in the present fettered state of the commerce of this country to most of the kingdoms in Europe, that monopoly should, in their humble opinion, be no longer continued; and that the petitioners consider the expiration of the East India Company's Charter a very fortunate circumstance, as it puts it in the power of the legislature to grant to the country that relief of which it stands so much in need, by giving a fair opening to the enterprize and spirit of all his Majesty's subjects; and that the exclusion of his Majesty's subjects from the trade to India, even while it is open to foreigners in amity with the king, is a grievance which the petitioners humbly yet confidently hope will be no longer continued; and that granting to the port of London an exclusive privilege for the importation of India goods is contrary to the natural right of every other port in the kingdom, and ought therefore to be discontinued; and that, should it appear to the wisdom of parliament necessary to grant at present only a portion of the relief so much wanted, the petitioners entertain a hope that no exclusive trade will be given to the East India Company further than from year to year, lest a grant for a longer period should stand in the way of that gradual, open, and unfettered commerce to India, which the petitioners humbly yet confidently hope will ere long

be given to all his Majesty's subjects; and that, deeply impressed with these considerations, the petitioners join with all their fellow subjects in dutifully and respectfully submitting to the wisdom of the House the subject of this Petition; and praying the House to adopt such measures, and grant such relief, as may appear best calculated for the general welfare and advantage of the British empire."

A Petition of the company of merchants of the city of Edinburgh, was also presented and read; setting forth,

"That the petitioners, being informed that some arrangements will soon come under the consideration of parliament with regard to the trade to India, they humbly hope that it will in its wisdom discover good grounds for extending the indulgence. that was granted to private traders by the Act 1793; indeed they would hope that parliament will judge it expedient to place all his Majesty's subjects in the same situation with regard to the trade to the East Indies as they placed the subjects of all foreign powers who are in amity with Great Britain by the Act of the 37th of his Majesty; and, whatever extension of the trade may appear to parliament to be proper to be granted, the petitioners humbly hope that that extension will not be limited to the port of London, but embrace such other of the ports of the kingdom as to parliament in its wisdom shall seem just, and among others Leith, the port of the metropolis of Scotland; and the petitioners confidently trust that, if such an extension of the trade as has been stated shall be granted, this reasonable indulgence will have the most beneficial effects on the commerce and prosperity of the United Kingdom, without injuring the great and important concerns of the East India Company."

A Petition of the chamber of commerce and manufactures of the city of Edinburgh, was also presented and read; setting forth,

"That it hath been represented to the petitioners in their corporate capacity, 1st, that in the present limited state of the commerce and manufactures of this country, owing to the continental restrictions laid thereon of late, the trading and manufacturing interests of Great Britain and Ireland have suffered greatly; and that many thousands of the workmen employ

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seem necessary in a matter of such great national concern, also to allow the petitioners to be heard, by themselves or their counsel, at the bar of the House, in support of the objects of this Petition."

A Petition of several manufacturers of China and Earthenware in the Staffordshire Potteries, was also presented and read; setting forth,

ed in our manufactures are reduced to a state of poverty and idleness without there being any immediate prospect of their being soon restored to their former situation: 2d, that, by the Act of the 33d of his present Majesty, c. 52, the East India Company are vested in the exclusive right of trade and navigation to all those countries comprehended between the Cape of Good Hope and the Straits of Magellan, containing a population of many millions of inha- "That the Petitioners, feeling with deep bitants: 3d, that, although all the rest of concern the distresses with which they are his Majesty's subjects are thus excluded affected in common with the other manufrom trading to any part of those ex- facturers in the United Kingdom, deem it tensive territories, yet, by the act of the to be their duty to make the same known 37th of his Majesty, c. 57, the same is al- to the House; and that the Petitioners lowed to the subjects of all foreign nations firmly rely on the anxious desire of the in amity with his Majesty: 4th, that the House to employ the best means for alleEast-India Company are not known to viating the miseries occasioned by the bave hitherto traded to any of those ex- stagnation of trade; and they humbly tensive countries, their own settlements conceive that the most obvious and effecand China excepted: 5th, that the private tual remedy is the opening of new markets trade to the settlements of the East-India for our commerce and manufactures; and Company, under the regulations of 1793, that the monopoly of the East-India Comis laid under so many restraints as tend to pany has been peculiarly unfavourable to deter many people, especially those who the introduction and consumption of artiare at present unacquainted with India, cles of British manufacture in the immense and who reside at home, from engaging in and populous regions over which they have it, while foreigners, who pay no part of the controul; and the Petitioners confi the heavy taxes imposed on the subjects dently hope that if the East be rendered of Great Britain and Ireland, are entirely accessible to British capital and British inrelieved from the restraint of these regula-dustry, new markets of great extent will tions, by which means they are enabled be opened to our manufactures and comnot only successfully to combat the exer- merce; and praying, that the House will tions of the private traders from this coun- take such measures as shall prevent the try to India under the regulations of 1793, renewal of the Charter of the East-India but also to compete with the East-India Company; but, if the House shall think Company itself both in the East and on fit to continue, in any degree, a commerthe continent of Europe: 6th, that, were cial monopoly to the East-India Company, the trade to the countries laying between the Petitioners, trusting with confidence in the Cape of Good Hope and the Straights their justice, wisdom, and humanity, for a of Magellan laid open to the industry, due and impartial consideration of the imexertion, and enterprize of the subjects of portant interests at stake, earnestly be Great Britain and Ireland at large, it seech the House, that it may be granted would afford employment to many thou-in such terms, and with such provisions, as sands of workmen employed in the manu-may secure to the subjects of this realm factures of these kingdoms, who are at the utmost freedom of trade that may be present reduced to a state of idleness and consistent with a restricted monopoly, and consequent poverty; it would create an the enjoyment at least of such privileges additional nursery for seamen, a set of men as are allowed to neutral nations." who have, especially of late years, eminently contributed to sustain the consequence, perhaps even the political exist ence, of these kingdoms, and would, at the same time, prove the means of adding to the riches, the revenue, and the national prosperity of the British empire; and pray-setting forth, ing the House to take the premises into their most serious consideration, and to grant such relief therein as to them may

A Petition of several inhabitants of the town of Wolverhampton, in the county of Stafford, who are interested in the manufactures and commerce of the United Kingdom, was also presented and read;

"That the Petitioners humbly conceive they have, in common with all others his Majesty's subjects, an undoubted right to

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