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but how could any time be found appro- Mr. Stephen confessed that he did not priate, unless the experiment were made? hear the first speech of the hon. gent, but Would the right hon. gentleman, looking he had the misfortune to hear the two last. back to that history in which he was so He should certainly think himself greatly well read, pronounce it to be his opinion, wanting in his duty to the public, if he that we were hereafter likely to obtain did not endeavour to counteract, by every such desirable conditions of peace as effort in his power, the mischievous misremight have been obtained at any former presentations of the measures of governperiods! The right hon. gentleman boast- ment which were circulated insidiously ed of our being the great and only barrier through the country. Those misrepreto Buonaparie's desire of universal domi- sentations were calculated to divert the nion. On this point there could be no resources of the country from that patriotic dispute why were we so ? Because it channel in which they ought to flow, into was the policy of the authors of this and a channel of disaffection; they were calcuthe preceding war which had made us so; lated to make men turn away their conwhich had first made Buonaparté consul | fidence from the conductors of our public for life, and afterwards in alliance with his affairs, and to make them believe, that own talents, had made him emperor, and until certain measures were adopted until had enabled him to trample upon every a change, which he knew to be impossihostile state. The same errors and falla. ble, should take place the country could cies were still circulating and still be never regain its former prosperity. It was lieved ; one day Prussia was said to be the proper and peculiar duty of a member arming against France, on another she of parliament not to suffer the public to was described as uniting her force to that be deluded by artful misrepresentations, of France, to assist in crushing the only —not to suffer their ignorance or their independent state remaining on the con- prejudices to be worked upon by those tinent. It was his duty, then, to ask the persons in the country, who seemed to people to be misled no longer by the fatal spend their time and talents in poisoning policy of ministers; and he would ask the minds of the people. He could conthe right hon. gentleman himself, not to ceive nothing more mischievous in a pobecome the victim of his own. infatuation, litical, nor more infamous in a moral sense, by bringing the country to the end of its than the propagation of falshood which resources. He believed the period must was now disseminated; of falshood he soon arrive when this would be the case. should say, because there were many He should be sorry if any thing had fallen members on the benches opposite, and from bim that might bear an interpreta- even the hon. gentleman himself (Mr. tion foreign to his intentions, but he had Whitbread) who had admitted at various deemed it an impressive duty to enter into times that the effect of the Orders in this avowal of his sentiments.

Council was not such as was now attri. The Chancellor of the Exchequer declared, buted to them. He held in his band a that every offensive impression which the paper which was just one of that descriphon. gentleman had made, more on the tion which now crowded the country feelings of his hon. friends than on his newspapers, and in hand bills crept through own, was completely removed. He had the country ; this paper was signed “A certainly not attributed to the hon. gen. Staffordshire Potier,” and it set out with tleman that which he imagined him to a most notorious falshood, that before have done. As to the question iminedi- the Orders in Council, and under the first ately before the House, he held it to be operation of Buonaparte's decrees, our desirabie that in populous towns the soltrade was not diminished. (Hear, bear, diery ought rather to be kept apart, than from Mr. Baring.) What? did he hear a to be quartered on the people. The hon. cheer from any gentleman opposite ? ór gentleman had again alluded to the Orders was the cheer from him who bad often in Council; but could they be said to taken part in debates on this subject, and prerent the importation of corn, when it who must, therefore, be well acquainted was generally known that, notwithstanding with the truth of the fact which he was their operation, eight millions had been alluding to? Did the hon. gentleman paid last year for foreign corn imported ? mean that the representation of the paper The fact was, that the scarcity was felt as was right? If so, he should certainly move severely in France at present as in Eng. a resolution on the fact, and have it ofland.

ficially before the House (Move, move ! from the Opposition benches.). He dis- tion into his speeches of those little epidained those sneering cries, because he, sodes on the Orders in Council; whether knew that there was no person who would his custom of flinging a remark or two on venture to call upon him seriously for this sabject into the context of his casual proof of a fact which was in evidence be speeches, 'was altogether very gracious, fore the House. It was already known, when he always declined making any that during the first three months after the specific motion, any motion that could issuing of Buonaparte's decrees, until the be distinctly met by the evidence of facts Orders in Council were adopted, our trade which were too strong to be broken down. had not only diminished, but was entirely The hon. gentleman was always carping at a stand; that there were no exports, at the Orders in Council, save the first and that many of the cargoes which had two years when he thought it convenient cleared the river for the continent were to be silent on their effects; and now obliged to be relanded. The insurance again he came forward with his views, was even so high as 60 per cent. ; so that and prospects, and prophecies ; and it apscarcely any underwriter was to be found peared that in his opinion there was no who would subscribe one. This was a

alternative for England but inability to stubborn fact; and yet in defiance of such carry on the war or submission. Really, a truth, there were men who could be base although he was not himself totally devoid enough to mislead poor ignorant manu- of apprehension, be confessed that he defacturers, and make them attribute to the rived some consolation from the hon. gen. Orders in Council, and the government who tleman's evil predictions. In fact the advised them, the very contrary of their hon. gentleman's prophecy was to him the operation. Such a bold and rank impos- very best security he could wish for. The türe he would not impute to any member reputation of a prophet seemed to be the of that House, because he was aware that fame now most in vogue; and if the ambithe intentions of them all were pure; but tion of the hon. gentleman was very soarhe would say, that such an imposture must ing, he would recommend him io beproceed from a French party, animated come Editor of Moore's Almanack, in by French spirit, imbued with French which work he could have a wide field for principles, entertaining French views, the display of his abilities. The predicdiscontented with their own government, tion of sun-shine in the dog.days, or a fall and willing to rush upon measures that of snow in December, might fortuitously must be fatal to all that Englishmen hold and felicitously turn out to be realised, and dear, to the freedom that Englishmen the character of the hon. gentleman might cherish, and the independence, without be retrieved. The hon. and learned genwhich they would not care to exist. Such tleman then argued, that the present a deed as this iinposture, in such a coun- carcity was not to be attributed to the try, and under such a government, was

Ord in Council, contrary to what he unparalleled in the baseness and profligacy understood had been stated by the hon. of mankind. In justice to the poor de- gentleman. (Here Mr. Whitbread signiluded manufacturers, he wished to see fied his dissent.) He was glad to see that these detestable arts abandoned ; and this the hon. gentleman disavowed, by his geseffort of his indignation was directed to no ture, that he had imputed the scarcity to other purpose. He begged the lurking the government,-that was at least one adauthors of those misrepresentations to look vantage gained by this irregular discusto the consequences; to see that they sion. As to the asperity of the beginning were only paving the way for the ravages of the debate, after the display of good huof military force, and exposing the nation mour by the hon. gentleman, he should not to a deluging waste of blood. The hon. repeat the offensive expressions which and learned gentleman then proceeded to were applied to his right hon. friend. At shew, that in the six months subsequent to the same time he could not help saying, the issuing of the Orders in Council, the that when his right hon. friend was reprecountry had reached a pitch of prosperity sented by the hon. gentleman as rising to unknown at any former period of our his- his station by talent, and ingenuity, and tory,--that our exports were unexampled, dexterity, and afterwards said to bave obamounting to no less than to an excess of tained his place because no one else would 10 millions. After this statement, he would take it, there was some little appearance pat it to the candour of the hon. gentle- of discrepancy in the hon. gentleman's man, whether he was fair in the introduc. assertions. At one time was his dex

terity, and the next moment it was the re- / who spoke last, had indulged himself in a fusal of others to take his situation, that most lavish panegyric on his right hon. kept him in it. His right hon. friend's friend. Why not? Was it not most dexterity must certainly be very formida- natural that he should do so ? For if the ble, when there was no person on the right hon. gentleman had by any calamity other side who would venture to change not been minister, the hon. and learned places with him. But if it was not even encomist never would have had the place choice but necessity to which his right he now held. The hon, and learned genthon, friend owed his situation, he must leman had advised his hon. friend to besay, that it was a most fortunate necessity come editor of Moore's Almanack; but he for the country. If the withholding of would ask the hon. and learned gentleman their services on the part of others was whether his hon. friend's foresight was the means of preserving his right hon. defective in every other respect except friend to his country, then that refusal changes of the weather. His hon. friend was a most important event in the bistory had foretold that this country, under the of England, and would be equally an im- management of the right hon. gentleman, portant event to his character. It would would be neither prosperous nor happy: shew that his fame, which was progres- and now for a few plain matter of fact sively increasing, and would increase to questions. Two years ago the right hon. ages, arose, not from any ardent and san- gentleman effected his loan at 70 in the guine love of power-that its spring was 3 per cents.; last year at 64; and he not in ambition, but that it was driven to should like to know was that any mark of display itself by the disinclination of others extraordinary prosperity? Did he exto strengthen the administration, to share pect this year to get it higher than 59; in the toils and perils of his situation. It and would this also be a step in the nawas pleasing to him to say, that he knew tional prosperity ? Were these calculations no minister who had better graced his entirely within the range of Moore's Al, pre-eminence; and under his auspices, he manack? His hon, friend was not so absurd was confident that this country would not as to attribute the present scarcity to the be reduced to the disgraceful alternative Orders in Council as its immediate cause; mentioned by the hon. gentleman oppo- but he said, that the operation of the Orsite. The hon. and learned gentleman ders in Council made relief more difficult. concluded by saying, that if any blame Again, was not America affected by our was to be attached, in the present circum- Orders in Council ? There was enough, slances of the country, to the Orders in he was afraid, of real evil on this point, Council, the late ministers were to be and very little need of the aid of prophecy. charged with the responsibility of issuing He had promised not to stray much from the first of them, and of establishing their the question; and what was the true quesprinciple; and by alluding to the report tion? Was it not whether we should vote of the French minister for foreign affairs, the present immense sum, or go on in a who, in his report to the Conservative Se- limited scale of expence? Was it necess nate, of the 10th of March, laid it down as sary for the carrying on of the war to an a maxim what would ultimately destroy honourable issue, that 138,000l. should be the naval superiority and maritime rights spent on accommodations for 350 men and of Great Britain, namely, that “ free ships horses ? Was that necessary? Was that made free goods.” Buonaparte was now prudent? The right hon. gentleman on sending forth his thunders to the Baltic, the floor (Mr. Huskisson) had stated our and Great Britain should be roused there annual expenditure at 30 millions in one by to more determined resistance. way alone; and with such an expence,

When Mr. Stephen sat down, Mr. was it right to be so profuse as to throw Lushington begged to remind the Com- away 138,000.. on a stable? Would the mittee, that the business before them at building of the stable help us to a more present was merely the Estimates for the honourable conclusion of the war? His Barrack Department.

hon. friend was blamed for hinting at Mr. Ponsonby said, that if the chairman peace. If no person but those in the sehad not called the attention of the Com- crets of the cabinet was ever to ask for mittee to the immediate business before peace, he was afraid that we should be them, he certainly should have done so; troubled with very little mention of it. As he would not however take up much of its to the proper time for urging the necestime. The hon. and learned gentleman sity of peace, no member of parliament could have any other ground to go on but and with the ports there the Orders in general pacific principles; and it was on Council had nothing to do. He was afraid, such that his hon. friend always acted. if gentlemen were sanguine in the expecThe hon. and learned gentleman who spoke tation of getting supplies from any part the panegyric, seemed to be very indig- of Europe, they would be disappointed. nant against inflammatory productions. Mr. Whitbread said, that the petitioners All the hon. gentlemen on the other side, who had come to government, and also it seemed, were quite in a passion that such to parliament, complained that they were horrible productions could have been re- in a state of starvation arising from the sorted to. They scorned to descend to want of employment, in consequence of such arts. Oh dear, yes, they rose above which they were without money to buy such meanness: they never deigned to food -a situation to which they were replay upon the vulgar passions or preju- duced in consequence of the Orders in dices of the people! They never, inno- Council. He had observed it stated, that cent souls! imagined such a thing as the the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Rosej had, Church in Danger! They never dealt in to some of those petitioners who waited hand-bills. They knew nothing, for in- upon him from Birmingham, compared stance, of the No Popery placards in Man. France and England to two men up to chester; and, unquestionably, the imme- their neck in water, who must try which diate actors there had no connection or of them could stand the longest without dependence upon government! The right being drowned. He could not suppose hon. gentleman, too, had been very com- that the right hon. gentleman had so expassionate to-night. He would not deny pressed himself. He was satisfied the food even to his bitterest enemy. What right hon. gentleman could not have used a happy philanthropy! How greatly must such a metaphor, conceiving as he did, the good wishes of that side of the House, the good ship of England to be so high for the benefit of the human race, be above water. lately increased! and yet how intrusive Mr. Rose said he had been very hardly would recollection sometimes be, for he dealt with in the business alluded to. He declared he could not help remembering, confessed that some such comparison had that it was those very moral and religious fallen from him (Laughter)-but denied ministers who were the omoters of the that he had treated the distresses of the Bill for prohibiting xportation of Birmingham petitioners with any thing Peruvian bark to France (Loud cries of like levity. hear, hear!)

Mr. Whitbread did not suppose that the Mr. Huskisson agreed with the ideas of right hon. gentleman could have thought the right hon. gentleman who had just sat of treating with levity persons in so peridown, on the question immediately before lous a situation as he himself had described. the House. If the House was prepared, Mr. Baring agreed that the Orders in without document of any kind, to say that Council had no immediate effect in pro133,500l. should be granted for barracks ducing the scarcity of food, though it was for 380 men and horses, and that accom- equally true, that by reason of those modation for them could not be more econo- Orders in Council, the manufacturers were mically procured, then, and not otherwise, deprived of the means of purchasing food, they would vote for it. He proposed that were it before them in abundance. Every this part of the estimates should be post- thing, in his opinion, depended on economy poned till the House should be satisfied on in our expenditure, and, therefore, he was this head.

against the present grant. Mr. Wharton thought any delay un- Mr. Fuller would not consent to repeal necessary. No farther information could the Orders in Council, though it were even be furnished on the subject; and the mi. true that he could get nine shillings a litary department had declared the bar-pound for his sugars in France. If the racks indispensibly necessary.

two countries must be like two fellows Mr. Rose was ready to maintain, that pumping, each striving to save himself the the Orders in Council were not the cause longest above water, let it be so; but Old of producing a greater state of distress in England should never yield to France. the country. They did not prevent a Mr. Huskisson said, he should move that supply; on the contrary, they gave faci, instead of 534,000l. the grant be reduced lity to the supply, in aid of the people. to 400,0001. Grain principally came from the Baltic, Mr. Wynn objected to a grant which


amounted to no less a sum than 380l. per

List of the Minority. man and horse. In other barracks the es.

Baring, A. timate was 821. per man. Was it to be

Hurst, R.

Baring, sir T. derstood that 300!. was for each horse's stall? Broughain, H.

Kemp, T.

Marryatt, J. Mr. Wharton said, the estimate only cor- Bankes, H.

Montgomery, col. responded with other estimates.

Bennet, hon. H. Ossulston, lord Mr. Calcraft observed, that barracks had Biddulph, R. M. Parnell, H. been built in his neighbourhood for 100 Babington, T. Ponsonby,rt. hon. G, cavalry, at an expence of about 6,0001. Craig, J.

Popham, sir H. Mr. Wharlon said, that ground for exer.

Calcraft, J.

Smith, J.
Creevey, T.

Sunith, s. cising was to be inclosed to the amount of

Dickinson, W.

Smith, A. about 27 acres.

Eden, hon. G.

Sinclair, G. Mr. Fremantle objected to granting a Folkestone, visc. Thornton, H. larger sum than it was calculated the in- French, major Taylor, W. tended barracks would cost.

Fremantle, W. Thompson, T. The Chancellor of the Erchequer said, that Grenfell, P.

Williams, sir R. the sum proposed was not for procuring

Horner, F.

Westerne, C.C. accommodation for the horses and men

Hamilton, lord A. Warrender, sir G. alone, but for the Staff also, for an inclosed

Hutchinson, hon. H. Wynn, C.

Huskisson, W. Whitbread, S. exercising ground, and for temporary accommodation within the walls for a larger body of horse, when occasion should re


Tuesday, April 14. Mr. Whitbread appealed to the Commit- EAST INDIA COMPANY'S CHARTER.) tee if there was a single man in the House The Duke of Norfolk presented a Petiwho had had the smallest idea of the na- tion from the merchants and manufacture of this grant till now. Either the turers of Sheffield, pointing out the great right bon. gentleman who spoke last knew advantages which would result to them more on this subject than the Secretary of and to the country in general, from a rethe Treasury did, or the latter had not done newal of the East India Company's Charhis duty. He asked, would the hon. Se. ter.—The Petition having been read, cretary not now agree to postpone this Earl Filzwilliam observed, that, in addigrant? Or would not the Committee feel tion to the Petitions then lying on their a jealousy how they acceded to the grant- lordships' table, against the continuance of ing of money on such an estimate ? the East India Company's monopoly,

Mr. Ponsonby said the question was not, others were preparing in every city and whether this sum should be voted at all or town, throughout the kingdom; it was not; but whether or not time should be therefore right that the people should be given to the Committee to understand apprised of what step government intendwhat they were doing. All he should ed to take. say, if it was true that France and England The Duke of Norfolk said, it certainly were now to be compared to two men up was desirable, that information, both as to to the neck in water, and if in such cir. the time when any measure on this subject cumstances, barracks for 350 soldiers were would be brought forward, and to the obto cost England 133,000l. it was not diffi-ject which ministers bad in view, should be cult to see which of the two must be imparted to the House and the public. choaked first. ·

He did not mean to follow up this obserLord Folkestone strongly objected to a vation by introducing anything like a larger grant than was proved to be neces- discussion. But, he should be glad to sary, particularly for the erection of bar- learn, whether government intended to racks, which that House and the country leave the East India Company in complete had been accustomed to regard with a jea- possession of the trade, to diminish it parlous eye. The speech of the right hon. tially, or to throw it open entirely? This the Chancellor of the Eschequer too, fur. information was not only necessary to the nished additional ground for postponing manufacturer, but to the public in general. the grant till the House 'was better in. The Earl of Buckinghamshire said, that, formed.

in the present state of the negociation beThe House then divided, when the num- tween the government and the East India bers were, against the Amendment 88- Company, it was out of his power to give For it 40-Majority 48.

any distinct answer.

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