each year, &c. which was forthwith agreed to by the House. His lordship then moved for the production of an account of the number of notes so presented and returned. The Earl of Liverpool observed, that to the first part of the noble earl's proposition he thought, under the present circumstances, and with reference to the Bill in its progress in that House, no rational objection could be made. It, besides, would furnish all the necessary or useful information desired, inasmuch as the specification of the value in each year would shew the progress as well as the extent of the evil. With regard to that under consideration, he certainly entertained no ob Earl Grey said, it had been truly ob- | served by his noble friend, that Petitions were preparing against the East India Company's monopoly, in almost every town in the kingdom; and, with such an interest at stake, and so much attention and anxiety manifested on the part of the public, surely they had a right to expect, that the business would have been so arranged by government, that it would be brought forward at a time when all the consideration due to its great importance could be paid to it. But now he understood from the noble earl, that the discussions between ministers and the Company were not yet closed, and therefore they were not ready to give any specific answer. What, then, would be their si-jections; it would also, on the noble earl's tuation, if the discussion were delayed till a very late period of the session? Could they then give the subject that deep consideration which it deserved? He did not wish to press ministers to introduce any premature or hasty measure on the subject; but if they were not now prepared to submit a proposition to the legislature, or, at a very early period indeed, from this time, he hoped, as the Charter would not expire for two years, and as the interests concerned were various and complicated, that it would not be brought forward during the present session. BANK OF ENGLAND.] Earl Grey rose to bring forward the motion respecting which he had recently given notice. It would go, he observed, first, for an account of the total value of the notes refused in payment at the Bank since the year 1797, on the ground of their being forged, distinguishing the value of those in each respective year since that period. To this, he believed, no objection would be made. But the information he most wished for, and without which the anterior would be nugatory, was an account of the number of the notes so presented; this he thought more especially necessary, with a view to the discussion of the measure which would ere long come before that House. Such a statement alone, he said, would enable them to form a judgment how far individuals were likely to suffer in that way under the system, which that measure went to extend, and to continue. The noble earl then moved for an account of the value of the notes as above, from the year 1797 to the latest period the same could be made up, distinguishing the nominal value of the notes so presented in (VOL. XXII.) own ground, afford but little further information, except a distinction was made between the notes below and above the sum of 51. One strong objection was, that it would afford information as to what description of notes forgeries might be the more easily made; every useful purpose would be answered by a specification of the actual number and total value of the notes refused in each year, and what was now proposed appeared to him at best to be unnecessary and superfluous. Earl Grey thought, by what fell from the noble Secretary of State, he must have misapprehended the object of his motion; it went to shew what he allowed to be proper, the extent of the evil, and which could not be satisfactorily shewn without an account of the number of instances in which the evil had taken place; it was not so much the amount as in the nature of the sum, and the multiplicity of instances in which the offence had been committed. It was said not to exceed 9,000l. as to nominal value, one year with another, but without a specification of the numbers, they could not tell whether forgeries were committed in nine instances of 1,000l. each, or in nine thousand instances of 11. each. He had no objection to amend his motion as suggested, by calling for a distinction of the notes under and above 51.; and as to the objection of the noble earl, that to publish the description of notes would be injurious, he thought it could not really be believed, that the practitioners in forgery wanted any information through the medium of that House. One great object should be the diminution of opportunities for the commission of the offence alluded to, as far as possible, for it made one's blood run (Y) cold to read the facts in the papers of the numbers brought to trial on such charges, and sent away with verdicts of Guilty Death. The Earl of Liverpool contended, that every useful purpose would be answered from the accounts already ordered. He was far from wishing to withhold any information really useful or necessary: the real question to be considered was, whether the evil complained of was progressively increasing or not, and that would fully appear by the accounts just ordered. The Earl of Lauderdale contended, that the specification called for by his noble. friend, was necessary to elucidate that part of a very important subject. The noble Secretary seemed to have forgot, that before 1797, notes of 11. and 21. were unknown in the country. The forgeries were said to be chiefly for those low sums, and it was proper they should know how far the evil arose from that system which the expected Bill went to enforce and to continue. Earl Stanhope hoped their lordships would permit him to say a few words respecting the opinions just declared upon a very important subject. He believed it to be fact, that the greater proportion of the value of the forgeries had been in the small notes. He did not approve of the motion as then worded; it was liable to an objection urged by the noble Secretary, as to its tending to mislead. He saw no reason, however, why his noble friend should not call for a specification of all the classes of notes in which forgeries were committed. It was a topic to which he believed he had given ten times the attention given to it by all the members of parliament put together. He had suggested a mode which would go to prevent forgeries at home; but what was greatly to be feared was the effects of foreign forgery, when these notes should be put on a different footing; the forgeries would be extensive and systematical. Their lordships recollected the forgeries of the assignats. With regard to the Bill in its progress to that House, the great object with respect to it, and the subject of which it formed a part, was that the holder of the note should receive the value it was worth. Every thing that could, should be done to prevent forgery and its consequences; and also to render the person who held a note, certain that he would receive that which was its value. In that The Earl of Lauderdale moved, that there be laid before the House a statement of the period at which the directors of the Bank of England gave up indemnifying the holders of forged notes. On this proposition some conversation took place. Lord Holland expressed his surprise that ministers seemed unwilling to acquiesce in propositions of the kind, until they had consulted the Bank directors. The motion he thought necessary, and adverted to the period, as long subsequent to the restriction on the Bank. He noticed the circumstance of a forged note he had brought some years after that period, and which he had communicated to the Bank as connected with a system of forgery, said to be then going on. He was offered indemnification. But he could not avoid observing, that it was to the disgrace of the country that the example was set, not by individuals, but by the government itself, and it was to the shame of the country that the practice should be approved in the tribunals, on the ground of its being against the enemy of the country. The Earl of Liverpool said, that with rerespect to any specific proceeding of the government of the country at the time adverted to by the noble baron, he certainly could not speak from any personal knowledge; but they all knew, that when the circumstance had been expressly referred to in that House -it was strongly denied and disclaimed by a noble baron (lord Grenville) then holding a high situation in the government, who denied that such a fact had ever taken place. With respect to the idea held by the noble baron, of his proneness to consult those whose interests were so immediately concerned, he had to state, he felt it incumbent on him, not only in the case of the bank of England, but of any other public body whose in shire, was also presented and read; setting forth, terests were deeply implicated, to endeavour to learn whether important objections were entertained, and where these were communicated, he always exercised his own judgment how far such constituted a fit ground for objection or argument in parliamentary discussion. The motion was then withdrawn. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Tuesday, April 14. PETITIONS FROM PERTH, SHROPSHIRE, MANCHESTER, AND BLACKBURN RESPECTING THE RENEWAL OF THE EAST INDIA COMPANY'S CHARTER.] A Petition of several merchants, manufacturers, and other inhabitants of the city of Perth, was presented and read; setting forth, "That the Petitioners, in common with the rest of their fellow subjects, conceive that they have a right to a free trade with all parts of the British empire, under such regulations as justice and sound policy may require; and that they forbear entering into the discussion of the territorial rights of the East India Company, or the internal government of its possessions, but they humbly confide in the wisdom of the House that, on the expiry of the present Charter, the important interests of the Company will be settled on liberal and fair principles, compatible with the sanction of a free trade to India, under equitable regulations, for the general benefit of the subjects of the United Kingdom; and that the Petitioners humbly apprehend, that the natural effect of throwing open the trade to all the countries beyond the Cape of Good Hope will enable the manufacturers to exert their skill and industry with increased energy and advantage, and not only tend to relieve them under their present hardships, but also the numerous class of suffering operatives, who are, by the calamities of the times, and the tyrannical restrictions of the enemy, deprived of their ordinary means of support; and praying the House to adopt such measures on the expiry of the present Charter as may establish and confirm the sanction of a free trade to the British merchant, under suitable regulations, to the eastern parts of the world, neither cramped by unnecessary restrictions, nor fettered by exclusive monopolies, as at present, nor injured by preferences granted to neutral nations.' A Petition of the iron masters, proprietors of the principal iron works in Shrop "That the Petitioners beg leave to represent to the House, that though they are fully sensible that it is a duty incumbent upon every subject of these realms to submit, and the Petitioners are willing cheerfully to submit, to every commercial regu lation and restriction by which the welfare of the state is essentially promoted, yet they apprehend, and beg leave to state, that the principle of restraining the subjects of these realms from trading with foreign nations and our distant possessions, by granting an exclusive exercise of that right to a chartered company, is so far from being essential to the welfare of the state, that it in itself is an obstacle to the increase of our commercial intercourse with those foreign nations and distant possessions; and that the principle of conducting trade with foreign nations and distant possessions, by means of a chartered company, tends to increase the price paid by them for the transport of our manufactures, and to enhance that which the Petitioners pay for their produce, and thereby, instead of being a benefit to this country, is an injury, and consequently an injustice, to both; and therefore praying, that, if possible, the exclusive Charter of the East India Company may be abolished, or that, if, from circumstances not within the knowledge of the Petitioners, it should appear to the House necessary to concede to the East India Company the exclusive privilege of trading to some particular nation situated beyond the Cape of Good Hope, such concession may be as limited as the nature of the case will admit; and the Petitioners earnestly intreat of the House so in its wisdom to protect the rights of his majesty's subjects, as that they may not be restricted from a free intercourse with our Indian possessions, nor, without absolute necessity, from trading with any of those nations which are situated beyond the Cape of Good Hope." A Petition of several merchants, manufacturers, and other inhabitants, of the town of Manchester, was also presented and read; setting forth, "That, from the circumscribed state of their trade with the European continent, the Petitioners are more particularly anxious that a free intercourse may be secured to them with all the countries beyond the Cape of Good Hope on the approaching termination of the East India Company's Charter; and the Petitioners | for supporting monopoly no longer exist: beg leave most respectfully to assure the the capital, commercial spirit, and comHouse of their firm conviction that the un-mercial knowledge of the British merchant restrained exercise of that right is essen- are unbounded; free ports of trade to tially necessary to the maintenance of the carry off the immense manufactures of the manufacturers, and to the prosperity of United Kingdom are very limited indeed, the commerce of the United Kingdom; and, that they are by no means adequate, and the Petitioners humbly submit, that is most plainly shewn in the distress their right to a free participation in the which pervades every manufacturing discommerce with all the prohibited coun- trict; and that, when the East India Comtries, on the expiration of the East India pany's monopoly was granted, almost Company's present Charter, is unquestion- every port in Europe was open to the inable; and that the success of the subjects dependent trader, now almost every one of foreign powers, in a traffic which has is shut against him; and the Petitioners been denied to the Petitioners, has made submit, that it is impossible for any joint them more deeply sensible of the priva-stock company to convey our manufaction, and completely proved that the trade tures into many of the ports betwixt the is within the reach of individual exertion; Cape of Good Hope and the Straits of and praying the House to adopt such mea- Magellan, that would be resorted to by sures as may, upon the expiration of the independent adventurers if they were perexisting Charter, secure to all his majes-mitted to make their election; and that ty's subjects a free trade from any of the ports of the United Kingdom with all the Countries situated to the East of the Cape of Good Hope." A Petition of the cotton manufacturers, bleachers, and printers of the town and vicinity of Blackburn, was also presented and read; setting forth, the delays and abuses known to exist in managing the concerns of the Company, being prevented by individual attention and economy, will be the means of increasing the ability of this kingdom to undersell all others in foreign markets; but, if the Company can carry on its trade to greater advantage than the private merchant, it will reap its merited benefit "That the Petitioners presume to petition by the competition, and, without compethe House not to renew the East India tition, the Petitioners respectfully contend, Company's Charter, and, in doing so, that the commerce of Britain neither would they deem it their humble duty to state have risen to its present standard, nor the causes, as briefly as the importance of will it increase to bear the increasing exthe case will admit, of their objection to pences of the nation; and that it is a well the exclusive privileges granted to that ascertained fact, that, during the time of body; that, to deprive an individual of the Protectorate, there were men who the free employment of his industry and boldly violated the East India Company's capital, must tend to discourage enter-Charter, and carried on the trade with prize, to repress exertion, and greatly to such success, that they were able to sell obstruct the progress of national prospe- the commodities of the East in the differrity in the early stages of commerce, ent markets of Europe on lower terms there might be reasons to justify exclusive than had ever been known; and at this monopolies to joint stock companies, the day, individual British merchants have wealth of the community being low, the traded to India with profit, even under all combination of a number of small capitals the difficulties, delays, and taxes imposed may be necessary to form a fund for an upon them by the Company; but the undertaking of any considerable magni- American merchants, unfettered, have emtude: if the proposed object of adven- braced the favourable opportunity held turers be attended with apparent hazard, it out to them by the act 37 Geo. 3, c. 57, may be wise in government to encourage and have now deprived the Company of such adventurers, by allowing them ex- the advantage of supplying principally clusive privileges; and on these, or simi- not only the continental European marlar considerations, the Petitioners presume kets, but also those of South America, the the various privileged companies in Eng-West Indies, those in the Mediterranean, land were first formed; of these the East India Company alone has been enabled to prolong its existence: the Petitioners will now endeavour to show, that the reasons and even Malta: and that this trade, supported no doubt in part by British capital, which the law does not permit its owners to employ directly themselves, has in creased with unexampled rapidity, enrich- that effect, they are manifestly the cause of still further curtailing our trade, by depriving us of the market of the United States of America, the only one of importance which was left open to us; and that notwithstanding the Berlin Decree our trade with the United States was as flourishing as at any former period until the Orders in Council were issued, followed by the American embargo and Non-Importation laws; and, when the Petitioners consider the naval superiority of this country, they cannot suppose it would have been interrupted by that Decree, or by any other within the power of the enemy; and that it is with the most pain. ful anxiety the Petitioners find themselves compelled to represent the present depressed and alarning state of their trade, the number of bankruptcies is unprece dented, more than one fifth of our manu PETITIONS FROM STAFFORDSHIRE AND YORKSHIRE RESPECTING THE ORDERS IN COUNCIL.] Lord Leveson Gower presented a Petition from several manufacturers of china and earthenware in the Stafford-factories are unoccupied and falling to shire potteries; setting forth, their usual extent, great numbers of workmen are without employment, and they and their families are dependent upon our daily increasing poor rates for subsistence; and praying the House to take such measures as to them shall seem meet, to relieve the distresses of the country, and to prevent the still greater calamities which the Petitioners are persuaded would result from the continuance of the Order in Council of the 26th of April 1809." decay, and the remainder, many of which "That the Staffordshire potteries, con- are at work on the prospect of the opentaining originally but few inhabitants, and ing of the American market, are employpossessing little except the rude produced on the average to little more than half tions of nature, have, by the skill and indus. try of the potters, become the seat of manufactories of national importance, giving support to a considerable population, and supplying tonnage to a great amount for the coasting trade and for inland navigation in the conveyance of raw materials, the products of Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Kent, Derbyshire, and Wales, and in the transport of a bulky manufactured article; and that in time of peace, the productions of these manufactories found their way to all parts of the known world, but since the commencement of the present unexampled system of commercial warfare, they have experienced, in common with the others in the United Kingdom, the privations unavoidably produced by a total exclusion from the continent of Europe; "That the Petitioners form a considerand that restricted as the Petitioners were, able portion of that description of his Maby the severe prohibiting decrees of the jesty's subjects whose persevering indusenemy, from any participation in the con-try has contributed to raise to a pre-emitinental trade of Europe, it became of the highest importance to preserve our extensive and valuable commerce with the United States of America, by every means consistent with our national honour and interest; and they humbly conceive that the Orders in Council issued in 1807, and continued in certain of their provisions in an Order of 1809, were intended to force a commercial communication with the continent of Europe from the pressure of its necessities, but instead of producing Lord Milton presented a Petition from several merchants and manufacturers interested in the woollen trade, and resident in the West Riding of Yorkshire; setting forth, nent degree of wealth and greatness this their native country; and that the Petitioners are sensible of the existing national difficulties, and of the various and unjust means devised by the inveterate and subthe enemy of their country to injure and destroy their national independence, and have, therefore, borne without complaint a large portion, and are yet willing cheerfully to undergo their share, of the pri vations necessary to effect the national safety, but they cannot any longer refrain |