lishmen: the other, which enacts what was necessary to the object of the time, the establishment of king William on the throne. The first part, which contains thirteen articles, declared to be the ancient and undoubted rights of Englishmen, may be called fundamental (if, indeed, any law is fundamental in a state, which has a su these thirteen articles, declaratory of our "ancient and undoubted rights," the words Protestant, or Catholic, never once occur, except in stating that Protestants shall not be deprived of their arms: with that exception, there is not one of the thirteen declarations that might not be equally maintained as the rights of the people of this country, if the Roman Catholic, or even the Mahometan religion, were established throughout it to-morrow. Lord Holland.--My lords; I do not rise at this late hour of the night, to enter into any argument, but to explain one point; or, indeed, I may say, to apologize to the noble and learned lord for interrupting him when addressing your lordships. The nature and motive of that interruption he has indeed, mistaken; but apology is due to him for any thing bordering on inatten-preme legislature in it like ours) but in tion; and I can assure him that my remark, which was made too loudly, was owing first to the circumstance to which he has himself adverted, the part of the House from which he speaks: and 2dly, to the great good humour with which he generally receives every thing of the sort; but when I so irregularly exclaimed to the noble lord to read the Bill of Rights, I did not mean to imply, (God forbid I should) that he had not read, nor did not understand, the Bill of which he was Unquestionably, the violation of some speaking; I did not mean to recommend of these exclusive laws, that is, the dishim to read an act of parliament, with pensing with the tests required by law, which I was, and am well convinced, that formed part of the charge against James 2, he is perfectly familiar; but I called upon and was one of the motives to the glorious him, irregularly, I admit, but not dis-resistance made against that misguided respectfully, to have the Bill of Rights read at the table, in order to enable the House to judge of the practice of that observation, on which he has this night laid such a stress. The noble and learned lord maintains, that the exclusion of Roman Catholics from parliament and offices, is part of the fundamental law of our constitution, as declared by the Bill of Rights. It is that point I wished to be explained; and it is that point which, I think, the reading of the Bill of Rights would completely clear up; and set not only in a different, but in an opposite light, to that in which the noble and learned lord has presented it to your lordships. It would detain the House to have the Bill read at length; but if any there be on whom this part of the noble and learned lord's statement has made an impression unfavourable to the repeal of the exclusive laws, I trust they will refer to the Bill itself; and in it I contend they will find nothing which precludes them from repealing the laws of exclusion; nothing which enacts or implies, that those laws are fundamental in our constitution, or absolutely and permanently essential to its security. monarch; but that very circumstance makes the omission of any mention of these laws in the declaratory part of the Bill of Rights, the more remarkable; and proves the more forcibly, that though the statute law of the land, such test laws were not in the contemplation of the great men who effected the Revolution, any part of the ancient necessary and unalterable constitution of the country. For though James 2 had broken those laws, though contrary to their letter and their spirit, he had admitted Catholics and Dissenters to places of trust and profit, and dispensed with those oaths which the law exacted from them. Yet, in vindicating the rights of the people, the Bill of Rights does not declare that the Test Act must be perpetual, that it can never be repealed, that places of trust and profit, that seats in parliament, that political power is essentially Protestant, and so forth. No: not one word of all this in the declaratory part of the Bill: it confines itself to the simple declaration in these two articles: 1st. That the pretended power of suspending of laws, or the execution of laws by regal authority, without consent of parliament, is illegal. There are, indeed, two distinct parts 2dly. That the pretended power of disof the Bill of Rights; that which, after pensing with laws, or the execution of laws, reciting the illegal and unexceptionable by regal authority, as it hath been affirmendeavours of king James 2, proceeds to ed and exercised of late, is illegal. declare, re-enact, and confirm the an- It lays no stress on the particular chacient and undoubted rights of Eng-racter of the laws, suspended or dispensed, but simply denies the power in the king of suspending, or dispensing with laws, in as much as they are laws. Formerly, though not to-night, I have heard the noble and learned lord say, those laws were felt to be fundamental at the Union with Scotland; and yet then a motion was made to render them so; and was rejected by a large majority of this House. The fact is, these very laws, and many others, to which my noble friend's motion is directed, were not in force in that part of the united kingdom, on which they have since most severely pressed, when the Bill of Rights was passed; and since that period they have been varied, added to, repealed, and altered, in both countries, in a manner quite inconsistent with the notion of their being so sacred and fundamental as the learned lord wished to represent them. In England, from Henry 8 till late in Charles 2's reign, that is, during the period in which the Reformation prevailed over the old establishments, no such laws have existed. Catholics might, Catholics did, sit in parliament; Catholics might, Catholics did, hold offices of trust and profit; and the Protestant Church grew into an establishment, without these fundamental laws which are now, forsooth, held to be absolutely interwoven with her existence. Nay, the laws on this subject, either existing, or made at the time of the Revolution, are not the same as are now in force: some been have added since; others have been repealed; all have been altered, varied, or applied, either by law, or usage, in a way incompatible with the character of sacred, unalterable, and fundamental laws of our constitution. owed their elevation to the recommendation of Catholic treasurers, or Catholic chancellors: but this will lead me far. I will not go into this part of the question, though nothing, as I contend, has been more artfully misrepresented, or more grossly misconceived throughout the country, than this part of the history of the Revolution. A noble marquis in the blue ribband has, indeed, admirably exposed the delusion in his eloquent speech of this night. The connection of the Catholic religion and King James's cause was, I maintain, purely accidental; and our ancient and unprecedented rights (to use the words of the Bill itself) vindicated at the Revolution, were as much the rights of our Catholic ancestors, as they are ours; and would be as much our rights to-morrow, if we were reconciled to the errors of the Church of Rome, as they are to-day, when we abjure and renounce those errors. It is thus I read the Bill of Rights, and I defy the noble and learned lord to prove from the statute book that I read it wrong. The Protestant monopoly of seats in parliament, and offices of trust and profit, is not there declared to be a fundamental law, or an undoubted right of the people of England. Thirteen rights are there proclaimed to be ancient and undoubted those thirteen are vindicated, declared, enacted, and confirmed; but in the thirteen the noble lord will not find one word in favour of the laws which my noble friend wishes to be referred to a committee of your honourable House. My lords; in the general question I wil now say nothing. My opinion remains not only unaltered, but strengthened. Justice calls upon us to restore the birthrights of our countrymen. Policy recommends, I should rather say, necessity en In Ireland they were known at that time; and the Test Act now exists there no longer. So far from forming part of the settlement of that kingdom, the capitula-joins us to conciliate the affections of a tion of Limerick, by which the kingdom was recovered and secured, contained a solemn stipulation that these laws, which are now called fundamental, (but which have been varied and altered perpetually since) should never be enacted; even as to the absurdity of Catholic ministers recommending to Protestant benefices. If there were time to go into details, I could, I think, prove, that if it is unreasonable, it is at least not unexampled in our history; that such an anomaly has happened, and happened without injury to our Church. That some of our best and ablest divines have third of our fellow subjects. I have only to repeat my apologies for intruding, at this late hour, though for so short a time, to protest against the existence of any fundamental law, or any essential principle in our constitution, standing in the way of a measure, which justice demands, and necessity dictates. Such is the measure, this night recommended by my noble friend, commonly known by the name of Catholic Emancipation, and consisting, in my view of it, of a complete removal of all civil disabilities whatever, on account of religious opinions. MARQUISSES. EARLS. PRESENT. Donoughmore Hereford Bolingbroke Say and Sele LORDS. Hastings (Moira) Clifton (earl of Darn- Dutton (m. Douglas) Ponsonby (Besboro') DUKES. Sussex Norfolk Grafton Bedford Devonshire Lansdowne Stafford Wellesley Headfort Derby Suffolk Essex Albemarle Montford Lord Keith and the Earl of Selkirk paired off, and the proxy of the Bishop of Rochester was sent, but too late to be entered before prayers. HOUSE OF COMMONS. PETITIONS RESPECTING THE ROMAN CATHOLICS.] Sir William Scott presented a Petition from the chancellor masters and scholars of the university of Oxford, setting forth, That the petitioners understand that certain Petitions have lately been presented to the House, complaining of divers restrictions and disabilities to which, notwithstanding the various indulgences hereSundridge (d. of Ar- tofore granted them, the Roman Catholics Erskine Ponsonby of these realms are still subject, by several statutes now in force, and praying that all such restrictions and disabilities may be utterly abolished; and that the petitioners contemplate with much anxiety the alarming extent of the prayer of the said Petitions, and the effects which, in their judgment, must inevitably follow, if the same should be granted; and that the petitioners do verily believe that the particular restrictions and disabilities of which their Roman Catholic fellow subjects in Ireland Ailsa (earl of Cassilis) complain, are no other nor greater than are BISHOPS. Norwich VISCOUNTS. Lucan Kildare PROXIES. DUKES. Somerset St. Albans Duncan indispensably requisite for the maintenance and security of the Protestant government and Protestant Church, as they are now by law established in that part of the United Kingdom; and that the petitioners see also mcuh reason to apprehend, that a compliance with the prayer of the abovementioned Petitions would lead, and, they fear by direct and necessary consequence, to the removal of all restraints whatever on account of religion, whether they affect Roman Catholics or Protestants, throughout the whole of this United Kingdom, and to the entire abrogation of those oaths, declarations, and tests, which are by law required of every person admitted to sit or vote in either House of Parliament, or to fill offices of trust and power, all which the petitioners still humbly conceive to be essentially necessary to the security both of our civil and religious establishments; and praying, that the House, in its wisdom, will be pleased to maintain and preserve inviolate those laws which experience has proved to be the best safeguards, under Divine Providence, of our present happy constitution in Church and State." Ordered to lie upon the table. consciences, and, after a diligent and impartial examination of the Sacred Volume, to embrace and avow what they conceive to be the truth; and that, in the exercise of these invaluable rights, they ought not to be opposed by any law subjecting those who dissent from the mode of worship of the Established Church to any corporal or pecuniary punishments, as man is accountable to God alone for his religious sentiments; and that, by the wis Peti-dom of parliament, and the liberal disposition of the sovereign, the petitioners acknowledge, with peculiar pleasure and gratitude, various laws, which tended to the subversion and violation of those rights, have been repealed; yet they still observe, with a mixture of pain and apprehension, that other laws, no less inimical to those rights, remain on the statute book, by which Dissenters of every denomination from the Church of England are sub Mr. Grattan presented the General tion of the Roman Catholics of Ireland, whose names are thereundersigned;-also a Petition of several Roman Catholics of the county of Monaghan; and Mr. Ponsonby presented a Petition of several Roman Catholics of the county of Down; containing the same allegations and prayer as the Petition of several of the Roman Catholics of the Queen's County in Ireland, which was presented upon Thursday last. The said Petitions were ordered to liejected to heavy fines and corporal punishupon the table. PETITIONS OF PROTESTANTS OF IRELAND IN FAVOUR OF ROMAN CATHOLICS.] Three Petitions of noblemen and gentlemen, connected by birth or property with Ireland, and professing the Protestant religion, were presented and read; setting forth, "That the subscribers thereunto do most humbly petition the House in favour of their brethren and fellow subjects the persons professing the Roman Catholic religion; they apply to parliament to be admitted to the privileges and franchises of the constitution; and the petitioners, their Protestant brethren, do consider such application to be just, and do most heartily join the Catholics in this their loyal and reasonable request; and that, convinced of its policy, as well as of its justice, they do most zealously implore the House to comply with the prayer of the said Petition, and to relieve the persons professing the Roman Catholic Religion from all civil and political disabilities." Ordered to lie upon the table. PETITION OF PROTESTANT DISSENTERS OF BERWICK-UPON-TWEED, FOR LIBERTY OF CONSCIENCE.] A Petition of the Protestant Dissenters and other Protestants, friends to religious liberty, residing in Berwick-upon-Tweed and its vicinity, was presented and read; setting forth, "That they consider it as the natural and undoubted right of all men to worship God according to the light of their own (VOL. XXII.) ments; therefore the petitioners, though they yield to none in loyalty to their king, and love to their country, yet feel it to be a duty they owe not only to themselves but to posterity to remonstrate respectfully, but at the same time earnestly, against the longer duration of those laws which they consider as an infringement of religious liberty, and humbly petition the House, that all such laws may be speedily rescinded, and that every subject of the United Kingdom may be allowed to worship God as he pleases, under his own vine and fig-tree, without any thing to make him afraid." Ordered to lie upon the table. PETITION FROM THE EAST INDIA DOCK COMPANY RESPECTING THE EAST INDIA TRADE.] A Petition of the court of direc tors of the East India Dock Company, was presented and read, setting forth, "That two acts were passed in the 43d and 46th years of his present Majesty, for the further improvement of the port of London, by making docks and other works at Blackwall,, for the accommodation of the East India shipping in the said port, whereby the East India Dock Company was established, and powers given for the erection of certain docks at Blackwall, for the reception of, and unloading and lading, East India shipping; and that the said Company, after three years, completed the said docks and premises, at an expence of about 400,000l.; and that the said docks have greatly contributed towards (2Z) the security of the property and.revenue, and facilitated the unlading and lading of the said ships; and that, independent of the sum invested therein, the officers and requisite establishment of persons for the conduct of the business, with the several storehouses for the use of the ships (as well as for the warehousing of that hazardous import saltpetre), and other buildings erected, are of a magnitude to meet all the requisitions of the intercourse with India, upon a scale that is fully adapted thereto; and that the petitioners have embarked so large a capital, and made all these several provisions, in the full confidence, that the whole produce of the East Indies, that would arrive in this kingdom, should be brought into the said docks, together with all ships laden with such produce, and have, therefore, relied upon the continuation of those principles that gave rise to the existence of the docks, warehouses, establishment, and the numberless accommodations they now possess; and that there is no want of either convenience, security, or exertion, in the conduct of the business of the Company; and that the principles and management of the Company have been such as to afford a security to the revenue beyond all parallel, in the transit to the East India Company's warehouses, as well as at the docks and premises adjoining; and that the petitioners can with confidence appeal to the East India Company for their testimony of the perfect security that attaches to their immense property, and to that of individuals imported into their warehouses, as well as to the charges thereon being moderate, and to the facility and dispatch in clearing their ships; and that it is with extreme concern the petitioners notice the attempts making towards the introduction of Asiatic produce to the out-ports of the kingdom, a measure that will, if adopted, involve the interests of the petitioners to a most ruinous extent; and praying that the House will be pleased to take them under its protection, and not suffer any representations or interference to prevail against the privileges granted to them under the acts of parliament before mentioned, upon the faith of which they have expended so large a sum of money, engaged so many competent persons in the discharge of the duties attached to the docks, and conducted the same to the great benefit of the parties interested in the trade and ships employed to and from India, and with great advantage to the revenue of the country and the public." Ordered to lie upon the table. IRISH CORN DISTILLATION PROHIBITION BILL.] Mr. Maurice Fitzgerald, knight of Kerry, said that from the beginning of the present alarm respecting a scarcity of provisions in Ireland, he had called the attention of government to that subject, and had requested of them to quiet the fears of the people, and to take the necessary steps to prevent the impending evil. The right hon. Secretary of State for Ireland, had, however, been deceived by false statements, and had asserted to the House that the scarcity was only local; and that enough of grain existed in Ireland, not only for the supply of that country, but also to relieve the wants of England, and to afford enough for distillation from corn. Notwithstanding those assertions, and notwithstanding the improved state of the agriculture in Ireland, which surpassed in so short a time whatever the most sanguine expectation could have anticipated, still it was too well proved that a scarcity existed at the present moment. thought, in consequence, that the readiest method of affording relief to the population of Ireland, was to put a stop to the distillation from grain, which consumed fifty thousand quarters a week.-The right hon. gentleman concluded by moving, "That an humble Address should presented to his royal highness the Prince Regent, stating, that it appeared necessary to the House, in order to obtain a necessary supply of food for the poor of Ireland, that the distillation from grain should be stopped, and praying his Royal Highness to give directions for such measures as would speedily effect that desirable object." He Mr. Wellesley Pole said, he had listened. with great attention to the speech which the right hon. gentleman had just delivered, and he had some difficulty in persuading himself that it was spoken by the same gentleman, who about a month ago had favoured the House with another speech, in which he had taken a completely dif ferent view of every part of this subject. The right hon. gentleman, indeed, seemed completely to have forgotten the greater part of the opinions which he had advanced, and the arguments which he himself had urged at the period to which he alluded. The right hon. gentleman had said, that when he addressed the House a month ago upon the subject of the high price of provisions in Ireland, he had advised the immediate stopping of the distilleries, in consequence of the scarcity |
