always weak. But let the cause be what it might, it so happened, that the confidence of the country was possessed by the administration; and that was certainly no very great reason for addressing the Prince Regent to change it. If the Prince Regent had any power at all inherent in himself, it was that of choosing his servants. What he said in 1807 he would now repeat, and that was, that he did not understand what advisers the sovereign could be supposed constitutionally to have in the act of choosing an administration. After an administration was chosen, then, indeed, there existed responsible advisers; but antecedent to that he did not know where to look for them. How this reasoning applied to one of the letters, he would leave it to the noble lords to judge. The particular mention of that letter, he considered disorderly, not withstanding what had been said to the contrary. It was argued, that there was no particular standing order against which the mention of it militated, and his noble friend was called upon to produce such an order. He would say in reply, that there existed no standing order by which it was considered unparliamentary to use the king's name for the purpose of influencing the debates of the House; and yet who was there that would contend that the latter was not unparliamentary? If the proposed Address should be adopted, then parliament would be, in fact, doing all it could to destroy responsibility. It would be trenching on one of the dearest prerogatives of the crown; it would be attempting nothing less than to appoint the ministry itself: and besides, its conduct would be the more glaringly unconstitutional, because it brought forward not one act by which its dissatisfaction at the existence of the present administration was marked. It was said indeed, that the present administration was averse to the consideration of the Catholic petition. Again he would repeat what he had said so often, that the basis of his opinions was the principle of the revolution. The chief principle of that revolution was civil freedom engrafted on religious freedom, on liberal and extensive toleration; but at the same time, all conected with a view to the maintenance of the Protestant national church, and the Protestant succession. Every thing was then done consistent with these objects; and now we were asked to depart from the establishments which were then so wisely and so liberally se formed We were asked also to depart from those establishments, without giving any counterpoise to the danger to be apprehended. Securities, indeed, were talked of, and were even paraded in publications, which he would not now allude to, because the noble author of one of them was absent; but when the nature of these curities was asked, who could explain it? Who could inform the House what they were? He confessed that nothing could give him more pleasure than to be convinced that no danger existed from concession to the Catholics. His heart would beat with joy to enter into the consideration of their claims, if any statesman was ready to tell him what securities were to be offered for the protection of our establishments. But when no person came forward with those securities-when the one already proposed was obliged to be abandoned, what could he do but take his stand with the establishments, as settled at the revolution? He had often asked of that great man, whose friendship for him he wished to have recorded on his tomb, as his best encomium, whether he had any specific securities to bring for ward, in case the claims of the Catholics should be taken into the consideration of parliament? Although, however, he had pressed this enquiry over and over again, that great person died without being ever able to tell him what securities he thought might be proposed, and what checks adopted. Let the Catholics, then, bring forward their securities, and no person would be more willing than he to enter into the question of their claims; but until that event should come about, he was determined not to consent to a radical change in the constitution, or to adopt any measure which would put its existence to hazard. As to the complaint against the present ministers for their conduct to the States of America, he should not occupy the time of the House in shewing the futility of any such complaint. He believed that the example set by the last administration, in their treatment of America, had been followed by the present; and whatever differences existed, could not, he was assured, be attributed as a fault to either.-He was sure no man could assert, that, in the transactions between the two countries, Britain had been too tenacious. The wording of the Address he repeated was on the principle of exclusion, while it pretended to be on that of the formation of an administration on a broad and liberal basis. If the noble mover could succeed so far as to get rid of the administration he considered so obnoxious, really where would he procure one to answer the purpose he had described? And, unless the noble lord was prepared to open to the House some future plan, and could shew this would be the effect of his motion, there could be no ground for agreeing to it. Earl Grey declared that if he were to answer the whole political catechism of the noble lords on the other side, or if he were to make a sort of profession of faith, on all the great subjects which had been introduced or alluded to in the present discussion, the task would be not more disproportionate to his own strength than to the patience of the House. Without however going into all those matters at length, before he sat down, he would advert, as well as he could, to most of the points on which he differed from the members of the present administration, well aware that in such a variety of topics, he had little chance of escaping considerable misrepresentation; for he knew from experience, that say what he would, he could not exempt himself from having in the course of a few days, and frequently in the course of a few hours, sentiments imputed to him directly opposite to those which he actually delivered. Devoid of all expectation therefore of such a nature, he was simply anxious to state to their lordships what the opinions were, which he entertained on the present question. He did not deny that the motion appeared to him substantially intended to produce a change of administration. The noble lord by whom that motion was brought forward, could have had no other object when he made it. It could be understood in no other sense than an application to the Prince Regent, to remove the present ministers from their situations for the reasons there stated, that such a measure could alone conciliate the different parts of this empire, at a period which more than any other required the full exercise of all the resources of the country. This, it had been said by the noble and learned lord who spoke last, was a strong measure. That it was a strong measure he would not attempt to deny. But he confessed he had heard with much surprize that night, that this measure was unconstitutional; and that to express the sentiments of the House, with respect to the present ministry, was to interfere with the prerogative possessed by the crown of nominating its ministers. It was certainly no part of the duty of the House either to nominate the ministers of the crown, or to point out the method in which they ought to be nominated. But while he allowed this, he must be of opinion, that if sufficient grounds could be shown why a ministry were unfit to fill the situations which they held, there was nothing in parlia mentary precedent to prevent the House from making an application to the crown for the removal of those ministers, when it was thought they were unequal to the crisis. This he would contend was a subject within the cognizance of parliament; and to exercise their powers on such an occasion, was not only a legitimate but a laudable object; it was an endeavour to consolidate all the strength and resources of the empire. The question for the con sideration of the House then was, whether the present administration, in its quality and principles, presented obstacles to the union of the strength and resources of all parts of the empire. It might safely be said of this administration, that it was formed on the express principle of resistance to the Catholic claims. This was the principle by which the person who was at the head of that administration made his way to power. This was the principle which led him to make use of all the arts of detraction to attain that object, This principle he loudly proclaimed, from the moment at which he had been called from the bar to take a share in political life up to the present instant. It was his boast-it was put by him in the front of the battle-the eternal exclusion of his Roman Catholic fellow-subjects from any share in the constitution. When he had stated, that such was the principles of that person, he had no need to say more to shew that they were the principles of administration. He was the administration. Whither he led, the rest were obliged to follow.-Was he to be told by the noble and learned lord on the woolsack, who had just stated resistance to the Catholics to be a fundamental principle of the Revolution, that that noble and learned lord differed on this subject from the person at the head of the administration? Did the Secretary of State for the Home Department differ from him? He could hardly think that the person who wished from his heart that Maynooth College had never existed, was hostile to the principle of his leader. Perhaps it might be said that the new addition to their strength One differed on this point. Of the noble lord true of the other accessions to the adminishe alluded to (lord Castlereagh) he was tration, they would be found possessed of unwilling to speak in his absence. He exactly the same character, and very could not, however, forbear saying, that suitable additions to an administration it appeared to him the principles of that founded on a principle of resistance to the noble lord were even very much what he Catholic claims. He saw two noble lords himself described Europe to be, "in an on the cross bench (lords Sidmouth and unsatisfactory state." Agreeing to the Buckinghamshire) who were publicly deprinciple of those who advocated the signated as the future supporters of admiclaims of the Catholics, that noble lord nistration. He knew not whether any could never see a convenient time for communication had yet been made to the application of that principle, so that them from the ministry. Who were these he fully coincided in the practical part noble lords? They were the only lords of the conduct of his co-adjutors. Perhaps who, in the late debate on the Catholic it would be said, the noble earl opposite claims in that House, ventured to assert differed on this principle. But as the the principle of eternal exclusion. leading members of the cabinet maintained of them came forward with the doctrine the necessity of exclusion, and the others of the coronation oath, operating as an blindly followed them in their practice eternal exclusion against the Catholics, he was warranted in stating the present and the other with perfect consistency had administration to be founded on a princi- proposed measures which united every ple of resistance to the Catholic Claims. class of dissenters in one common cause. The noble and learned lord had said, he Now looking at an administration so had never heard of any sermons lately formed, was it not, he would ask, an adpreached on this subject. Where the ministration which must of necessity be noble lord had lived he knew not; but he obnoxious to a great part of his Majesty's knew that within these few weeks, per- subjects? The noble and learned lord had sons invested with the sacred character of told them, that nothing would make him so clergymen, forgetting all the principles of happy as to extend the benefits of the that religion which they professed, instead constitution to all classes of the people, in of preaching the doctrines of peace and so far as the same could be done without unity, which it was their duty to preach, danger to the state; but, that the fundahad thought proper to endeavour to in- mental principles of the Revolution stood spire one part of the community with hos- in the way of all further concession. For tile feelings against their brethren; and his part he denied this to be a fundamental of those persons who acted this most unbe- principle of the Revolution. He denied coming part, some were supposed to be that it was the principle of those great seriously connected with the persons who men by whom the Revolution was accomcomposed the present administration. One plished. The disabilities against the Caof them it appeared, from the Gazette, was tholics were not established for the purlately selected to be one of the chaplains pose of guarding the national church to the Prince Regent.-Had he not a right against those who professed another systherefore to call the existing cabinet a ca- tem of religion, but for the purpose of binet of intolerance, preventing that union withstanding political tenets, by which of common interests and affection, so neces- the constitution was endangered. "The sary to the country in her present hour of noble and learned lord," exclaimed lord peril? They had heard that night of Grey, " calls upon us for securities. We broad and narrow administrations; and ask him for his danger?" The danger conthe noble and learned lord on the wool-sisted not in admitting the Catholics, but sack had observed, that nothing was so in excluding them from the constitution. mischievous as a broad-bottomed adminis- Already they were possessed of great tration. With this character he was dis- riches and great political power, and conposed to concur, if the noble lord meant stituted an important part of the strength such a broad and liberal basis as should of the state. By this exclusion they were comprehend persons of the most discord- forced and united into a separate interest. ant opinions, who for the sake of coalition, Take away the exclusion and the motives must either sacrifice their own sentiments, for a separate interest no longer existing, or carry dissensions into the cabinet. But the hostility to the state would also necesthe present administration was narrowed sarily cease. But what securities were to to complete unanimity; for if report spoke be proposed? The noble and learned lord 77] respecting an efficient Administration. had stated that Mr. Pitt knew of none. | Mr. Pitt brought forward this very measure of concession to the Catholics, which he considered as necessary to the safety of the state. Could he propose such a measure, if he thought it would endanger the safety of the state? But the noble and learned lord had said, that Mr. Pitt had Then all the no securities to propose. conduct of Mr. Pitt was nothing but a pretence; and he did not state the securities because he was unwilling, but because he was unable to do so. The noble and learned lord had spoken in encomiastic terms of the value which he set on Mr. Pitt's friendship, he declared that he wanted no other eulogy on his tomb than that he had been Mr. Pitt's friend; but if this conduct of his to his departed friend was friendship, he would rather, for his part, have that noble and learned lord for Let noble lords his foe, than his friend. put themselves in the situation of the Catholics, and say, what would their feelings be, if they had been treated by the government in the same manner? They had received many concessions, in their very nature such, that they could not stop with them-no philosopher or statesman could think of them but as temporary expedients. The greatest names had deemed ultimate Mr. Fox, Mr. Pitt, concessions right. Mr. Burke, and Mr. Windham, all of them friends to the established church, however much they might differ on other subjects, concurred in this, that conciliation to the Catholics was absolutely necessary. But of attaining the cession of their rights In 1795, when a noble lord (Fitzwilliam) had gone over to Ireland with the power of conceding to the claims of the Catholics, their expectations, thereby excited, were speedily cut short by his He would not enter into a sudden recal. retrospect of the scenes of blood and torture that ensued-scenes even more horrible than those which attended on the French revolution. After this period came the Union, another source of the excitation and disappointment of the hopes of this body. By whose means was that Union obtained? By the support of the Catholics. By a too ready confidence the Catholics of Ireland did then come forward and support that Union which without their assistance could never have been carried. Their disappointment must now be aggravated by the feeling, that if not foolishly duped, their wishes might already have been granted. If the House, like the Catholics, had supported the Union, under the hopes be ready to unite. But character was as much the strength of men as it was that of a nation, and he could conceive nothing more dangerous than to shock the public opinion by an appearance of sacrificing principle for the sake of attaining office and emolument; for himself he disclaimed any such views, or any great desire for place at all. But did the noble lords opposite-they who were the advisers of the Regent on this occasion-who were his ministers before, and had continued to be his ministers since; did they expect, that in consequence of the Regent's Letter his noble friend and himself could have consented to coalesce with them?-Would they venture to deny, that they were consulted on the Letter? If so, it would establish the point, that there was an influence behind the throne, the most dangerous that could exist. Nay, he would put the question in another form, and sup pose he and his friends had been in power, and had sent such a Letter to the noble lords opposite, would they have acceded to the offer? He believed they would not. But were there no others with whom they (lord Grey and his friends) could unite? or, if both parties were put out of the question, were there not others to form an administration without them? If the address could be carried, and the Regent could find others of whom he might form a cabinet, holding the same opinions on the Catholic question with himself (lord Grey), they should have his warm support; and on any points in which he might differ from them, his opposition should be reluctant and gentle. He was too much exhausted to go through the remaining topics at any length. On the repeal of the civil disabilities of the Catholics, therefore, he would only briefly state, that he was prepared to define what securities he deemed sufficient on this boasted that the present administration | advantageous to the nation, he would ever possessed the affections of the people of England. Undoubtedly popularity was dear to him; but he had never endeavoured to court popularity by a departure from any one principle of which he approved, whatever obloquy might be the consequence. He supposed the meaning of the noble and learned lord was, that the present administration was supported by the opinion of the majority of the people of England on the Catholic question. Of that he was very much inclined to doubt. He was aware, however, that the person at the head of the government might again employ all kinds of arts to inflame the people with imaginary dangers, aided as he might probably be with all the power of the church. But what would be the consequence of his success? To aggravate the evil and increase the danger-to make the Catholics perceive that it was no longer a set of men whom they had to consider as their enemies, but the people of England; and what could be the result but the separation of the two countries?-Who would be able to repair the breaches of an administration powerful in all the means by which empires were hurried on to ruin? He believed, however, that the people of England were, as they had been at a former period, ready to support the measure of Catholic emancipation. That question would once have been carried with as little difficulty as any matter ever proposed to Parliament, but now the cry was raised against it by those who, with equal guilt, had first instilled into the royal mind those scruples of which they afterwards took advantage; for all which a deep and heavy responsibility rested upon their heads.-The noble lord had inquired, if the present administration were displaced, where would they get another? In the Letter subscribed by his noble friend and himself, they had stated, that they could not join with men united toge-score to satisfy him. ther on the principle of Catholic exclusion, and could not come into power without advising to give relief to the Catholics. But might they not unite with such as held similar opinions with them on this point?-When he signed the Letter, he was most sincere in saying, he did not act on personal exclusive principles; for he might perhaps be permitted to say this of himself, that, however much he had mixed in political controversy, he was little subject to political resentments. When an union could be honourable, and Adverting to the questions at issue between this country and America, he observed that this important subject had been so ably treated by his noble and learned friend, as in a great measure to relieve him from the necessity of adding any thing further. He would, however, embrace the occasion of saying, that if it was imputed to him that he was disposed to give up one single right, or to abandon any principle connected with the mainte nance of our essential maritime interests, the imputation was most false and ground |
