besides the customs, excise, and the prizes: | our power, the king being engaged with a some cannot get their money due to them, glad to be content with half; those that have interest get all would vote, that Money be not considered till Grievances are redressed.' : Mr. Garroway. Ruin of trade, loss of religion, no Grievance ! Papists threaten us in the very lobby, to our faces; soldiers raising money; a war; the French king broke the Pyrenean league, conquered Lorrain, the king of Spain's country, en passant, and this a good Alliance! And now the question, whether money or no Money to maintain this League, and no enquiry made into what remains of what we have already given-Lands turned into our hands, (as it is his good fortune) and no Grievances neither! As to our sea war, the French give us money, and they come to see how we fight for it: one clapped up in the 'Bastile for fighting: where will there be an end of the French conquests? If any fleet be to be set out, we may do it time enough: moves, That till this tax be expired,' (which will be August first) we may give no Money;' and then, if occasion be, would give, but till then, would not. 6 Sir John Hotham comes from a place so impoverished, [Beverly] that it is impossible to raise money there, and that place is much impoverished by soldiers already; they quarter there in private houses, and one person was fined, because he would not render his house and bed to the soldiers: you have now an army, and it is grown a principle amongst them, (an ill nursery for young men) that parliaments are roots of rebellion, and Magna Charta sprung out of them: money is the way to continue these persons, and no money, to disband them; therefore is against money. prince who has punctually observed articles : suppose us weary of the war, yet the king of France is actually engaged with us, and has remitted many articles that would have obliged the king to much expence the war we cannot get out of with a prince loving his honour above his life; you may make it an unprosperous and a ruinous war, but you cannot make it cease to be a war; you may dishearten all the soldiers that are to go over, but if you make the chariot wheels drive heavily, yet they must drive on, if the king please to command it: if that war was now to be made, the discourse would be most seasonable; but now will be ruinous, and wiser men than he think so: the king may engage in a war, but when his people shall storm him out of it, the hour will come that his enemies wish for; for the Dutch will now be upon greater terms, having ever desired such a storm as the king could not allay: it is all one to the king whether his designs be checked at home or abroad: is this agreeable to this house, wherein there is scarce a man that has not bled for the crown? moves, that whatever is grievous, either in church or state, we may go upon, with all calmness and temper, and to do the king that honour (if with submission he may say it) that one day may be for Grievances, and the other for Supply,' hand in hand, that the world may see you neither neglect the king nor yourselves. Mr. Poale. We see priests daily admitted into the king's presence, and our Address (as he is informed) is but lately sent into Ireland: a Papist major general acting in disguise: has not one told you (sir James Smith) that he sat in a council of war when the military articles were agreed to? pressing against so many staMr. Attorney Finch, is of opinion that there tutes, may reach your members, and the peers are grievances, and never expects such a health-themselves: and this army has done nothing ful constitution in the body politic, that shall be so equally poised, as to be without them: not to give money' is at this time a grievance not to be redressed in many ages: this is an English war, and no other: they are not afraid, in Flanders, of the Protestant religion, because joined with a Protestant army: would treat this matter with more temperament; surely, for the honour of our prince, we must not treat crowned heads here, in alliance with us, as if they were our enemies: if we have but good trade, the Dutch presently make war with that prince, in alliance with us, that we may have no trade with their enemy; commends much the piety of this, but sees not the policy: you are now in war, and you carry the purse: supposing it such, and the alliance, as is said, yet in the condition we are in, it is absolutely necessary to support the war to the utmost of *In the sea fight of the 11th of August, the French rear admiral Martel, who was not in the secret, fought in earnest; for which, at his return to Paris, he was committed to the Bastile, and the relation of the battle, which he had prepared, was suppressed. but the famous expedition from Blackheath to Yarmouth*: shall never think that privilege of parliament is not violated as long as a privy counseller sits in the Chair: members represented to the king in an ill sense for what they have said here: he that was the contriver of the Declaration, made lord privy seal, the third office in the kingdom, and another, as much concerned, made chief governor of Scotland: this is to bring in Popery in triumph: would be glad to see promises made in parliament, once kept in intermissions of parliament: he cannot go so far in the question proposed, as not to give any farther Supply till ten months; but at this time cannot give his consent to supply. "Part of the summer about 6000 troops were encamped at Yarmouth, under the command of count Schomberg; from whence it was understood that they might easily be wafted over to Zealand, as soon as the allied fleet had cleared the sea of the enemy." Ralph. + Reflecting again on the Speaker. See the Debate on that subject, p. 589. Earl of Anglesea. altered, it might have been wished the Tripartite League had stood: Is sorry for the Attorney's expression, of being stormed out of a League: The prince of Orange will be a good advocate to keep the Hollanders in war with the French, that he may be continued general; but would never have such a peace as the French shall assign us: We are more put to the blush about redress of Grievances, than for any other thing; those that have been the promisers have been the opposers: The proroguing will do us as much good as it did us a prejudice, and, if need be, we may be sudden Sir Thos Meres. With the length and expatiating on an argument oftentimes the edge of a thing is lost you will be sure to have Grievances, if that be doctrine, that money . must be given when grievances are redressed: if that money, twice given in a session, be not unparliamentary, yet there are 1,200.000/. granted in a year: has seen so often Grievances pressed, and so seldom redressed, that he now has little hopes of having it; but it may be answered, we will be redressed first; but have we not seen people's spirits are a little wearied with long sitting, and that a few redressed pleases us? in short we are the best-ly sent for again: Is for the question. natured house of commons that ever sat: consider what we do about Popery, in the lords house, by putting out popish lords, a matter of inheritance, which will have conference upon conference, and we under great disadvantages: it was said, that Popery was but the handle for the ambitious and covetous, in 1641, to raise sedition: when we speak of a Standing Army, we are answered, cannot the king raise what men he pleases?' and to the French league, cannot the king make leagues?" Yet the gentleman said, the king cannot have Money without the house of commons: what war can the king make, when the house of commons shall storm bim out of it?' To which thus he answers: In such great wars as this, and in most wars, the kings of England have advised with their parliaments; believes that it might be the king's intention to do so, however advised to the contrary; we owned not the war in the last tax: the king may make war, but the house of commons may or may not give money: other Grievances there are, as Evil Counsellors; to which it will be said, 'cannot the king chuse his own servants?' And that is plausible. Should these things be amended, he would give money. Mr. Howe† is dissatisfied with the person that is to have the money in his hands, the Speaker. Mr. Stockdale. If we were able, as we are not, it is not now a time to give at all: the question is a single question, Whether money or no money, till this tax be out?' Sir Tho. Lee. This question is for the king's service now, more than ever has great reason to believe, that the king needs it not; because one has told you (Mr. Attorney) that the king of France has released several chargeable articles in the treaty:' as for the carrying on the war, we look upon it as a Grievance. The parliament may talk, say the people, but still you give money: fears not proroguing for not giving; but if you show yourselves willing to give no money, the king will be restored to the affections of his people, when they shall see that grievances are redressed without giving of money. Mr. Secretary Coventry. Nothing is so wise nor so obligatory to the king, as to redress Grievances without giving money; but as far as he is master of his own life, he had rather lose it, than you should pass this negative vote. Mr. Garroway. Coventry tells you how the French have conquered; but now the case is Sir Tho. Clurges cannot apprehend such an imminent necessity of giving, as Solicitor North says there is: The remaining taxes, the customs, the revenue, and prizes, and for one reason above all, viz. 400,000l. given away in donatives: Does not repine at the king's bounty, but apprehends no necessity of giving by it: Thinks that the counsels, now prevalent, design the ruin of the king, the duke, and the kingdom; the Irish Grievances not sent away above ten days ago; priests and the lord almoner at court; 1500 and 2000 guineas given to officers disbanded; 13, 14, 20 Popish officers taken in, and the French regiments filled with them, and some ordered not to muster, to prevent discovery: Acts of parliament can do nothing; as these men have, notwithstanding, taken up arms: It looks like treason in levying war without commission: When he was at Paris, the Holland ambassador told him, "You have broken your faith with the Bankers; France an absolute monarchy, and you a limited one; no help nor advantage by your alliance:" The Chancellor is keeper of the king's conscience, and the treasurer, of his word: the Bankers broken, and Exchequer shut up, in Jan. and we to meet in March: they have persuaded the king to ask to pay the Bankers, and they are already paid, by the sale of the free-farm rents, 600,000/-Subsidy, excise, law-bill by this-Where shall we find treasure to supply these exorbitances: these evil counsellors intercept all the king's goodness; no good is to be hoped for till they be removed: it was insinuated that the last Supply would give us peace in a few months; we "The Triple Alliance between England, Holland, and Sweden, was formed in 1668. The design of it was to support the Spanish monarchy, restrain the exorbitant power of France, and prevent a dreadful war, in which all Europe would probably have been involved. It was therefore generally applauded, and seemed to be, in all respects, the wisest measure that was taken in England during the whole reign of Charles ii." Smollet. + Brother to sir Scroope Howe, and Paymaster General in the reign of queen Anne. He died in 1721. then considered not the war, nor the alliance: our duty to the king overcame all those enquiries; and since there appears no want of money, put the question at the largest extent, as first moved. Sir Tho. Littleton cannot imagine that such consequences as are alledged will attend the putting the question, as penned, with the words retained in is persuaded that, if an effectual course be taken, as things change, men's minds will change, and is not so terribly afraid of it: nor so dismal a vote but as happy. Sir Edw. Dering. By whose hands are we tied but by our own? Should we be tied by any other, we cannot go back with honour, nor forward with safety. Mr. Boscawen would make no other use of the Vote but in order to peace: the great grievances have been by pretence of the war, the rest but trivial: the war, at the first, was against the advice of the whole body of the merchants, only some particular men that had losses: thinks the peace a good peace, and the Triple League much for the satisfaction of the nation: some trifling injuries were done to the merchants at Surinam; as if a man, with a flea on his forehead, would strike it off with a beetle would make use of that Vote, that we might have a peace: it is better to deny an aid to the war than to meddle with a peace: we never deny money when there is a just occasion for it; it were to deny self-pre servation. upon secret serted him; his captains said, Mr. Garroway, Spain says, have peace with England, and war with all the world :' we lost 1600 ships in the last Spanish war, great and small: as for Duncombe's argument of building ships futurely, money may be had; the East-India Company had it at 4 per cent. for the prizes; you may have a short Bill for the remainder of the last Supply, which is not at all engaged to any other use. Sir Tho. Littleton doubts not but redress of Grievances will alarm the Dutch more than any Supply we can give. The Commons refuse a Supply.] It was then resolved, "That this house, considering the present condition of the nation, will not take into any farther debate, or consideration, any Aid, or Supply, or Charge upon the subject, before the times of payment of the 18 months Assessment, &c. granted last session, be expired: unless it shall appear, that the obstinacy of the Dutch shall render it necessary; nor before this kingdom be effectually secured from the dangers of Popery, and popish counsels and counsellors, and the other present Griev◄ ances be redressed." Sir Wm. Coventry hears it said, that the king cannot go off with honour from his alliance with France; and what then shall we say of the Triple Alliance, that the peace of Christendom was so much concerned in, so solemn, as to be sworn to by the king of France, and registered in the parliament of Paris by that king's command, but yet renounced by him, because not consistent with the good of his people: Munster made a war with our money; it was not for the good of his subjects, it seems, and he made peace with Holland: the same did Brandenburgh: the king of France, by the Pyrenean treaty, was not to assist the king of Portugal; it was not for the good of his people, and he broke that treaty; Princes have ever done it for the good of their people, and if we live by another rule than they do, we shall have the worst of it; Now has the king of France kept treaty with us, as is said? Knows not what the private articles were, but * Dr. Campbell, in his Lives of the Admisurely they were made unfortunately, that we rals, has preserved the conclusion of Martel's should have no share in this conquest; has he relation of the battle; which, it seems. had kept his word with us? He was to send 30 found its way to England, and was published ships for our 60; had that conjunction been as in a piece called, 'An exact Relation of the it should be, they would have fought; has Actions of the Fleet under Prince Rupert, heard but of two captains killed in the French printed anno 1673,' and was to this effect; fleet, and one died of an unfortunate disease" That if count D'Estrees would have fallen in (the Pox); thinks we had no advantage by with a fair wind upon De Ruyter and Bankert, their company. One unfortunate gentleman at their first engaging, when in numbers they did fight (Martel) and because that gentleman much exceeded the Prince, they must of necessaid, (as he has heard) That the French did sity have been inclosed between his Highness not their duty,' he is clapped up into the and D'Estrees; and so the enemy would have Bastile. His own squadron,' he said, de-been eptirely defeated.” The Commons Second Address against the Duke's Match.] Mr. Powle reported from the Committee the Address to be presented to his majesty, concerning the Match between his royal highness the duke of York, and the princess of Modena; which was agreed to by the house, and is as follows: such treaties and contracts by proxy are dissolvable, of which there are several instances to be produced, we do, in all humbleness, beseech your majesty to put a stop to the consummation of this intended Marriage.-And this we do the more importunately desire, because we have not, as yet, the happiness to see any issue of your majesty's that may suc which blessing we most heartily pray Almighty God, in his due time, to bestow upon your maj. and these kingdoms, to the unspeakable joy and comfort of all your loyal subjects, who desire nothing more than to continue under the reigns of your majesty, and your royal posterity for ever." Resolved, That this Address be presented to his majesty, and that the lords of the privy council, members of this house, be desired to attend his majesty, to know his pleasure when he will be attended therewith." A Standing Army voted a Grievance.] Nov. 3. In a debate upon Grievances, "We your majesty's most humble and loyal subjects, the commons, in this present parliaments assembled, being full of an assurance of your majesty's gracious intentions to provide for the establishment of Religion, and the pre-ceed in the government of these kingdoms; servation of your people in peace and security; and foreseeing the dangerous consequences which may follow the marriage of his r. h. the duke of York with the princess of Modena, or any other person of the popish religion, do hold ourselves bound in conscience and duty to represent the same to your sacred majesty; (not doubting but those constant testimonies that we have given your majesty of our true and loyal affections to your sacred person, will easily gain a belief, that these our humble desires proceed from hearts still full of the same affections towards your sacred majesty, and with intentions to establish your royal government upon those true supports of the Protestant religion, and the hearts of your people) with all humility, desiring your maajesty to take the same into your princely consideration, and to relieve your subjects from those fears and apprehensions which at present they lie under from the progress that has been made in that Treaty. We do therefore humbly beseech your maj. to consider, That if this Marriage do proceed, it will be a means to disquiet the minds of your Protestant subjects at home, and to fill them with endless jealousies and discontents, and will bring your majesty into such alliances abroad, as may prove highly prejudicial, if not destructive, to the interest of the very Protestant Religion itself. That we find, by sad experience, that such Marriages have increased and encouraged Popery in this kingdom, and given opportunity to priests and jesuits to propagate their opinions, and seduce great number of your Protestant subjects. And we do already observe, how much that party are animated with the hopes of this Match, which were lately discouraged by your majesty's gracious concessions in the last meeting of this parliament.-That we greatly fear, this may be an occasion to lessen the affections of the people to his r. h. who is nearly related to the crown, and whose honour and esteem we desire may be always entirely preserved.-That, for another age, at least, this kingdom will be under continual apprehensions of the growth of Popery, and the danger of the Protestant religion.-Lastly, we consider, That this princess, having so near a relation and kindred to many eminent persons of the court of Rome, may give them great opportunities to promote their designs, and carry on their practices amongst us; and, by the same means, penetrate into your majesty's most secret councils, and more easily discover the state of the whole kingdom.-And finding that, by the opinions of very many learned men, it is generally admitted, that Sir T. Meres said, several Grievances were enumerated the other day: the next Grievance he thinks fit to propose is that of a Standing Army. Some said it was to land to beat the Dutch; but it turned off, it seems, to take Harwich, as you have been told. He has been informed that they are of no service; the king's treasure is wasted by them, so that aids are asked twice in one year: loves not to be the first man that moves a thing, but would now form you a question, That this Standing Army is a Grievance.' The reasons for it: it brings in the billetting of soldiers, against the Petition of Right: the last session they took 5d. from persons to be exempted from quartering soldiers, and now it is raised to 6d. not only in inns, and alehouses, but in private houses (a man's house is his castle) contrary to the privileges of the English subjects: you are told also of Martial Law, made for the governing these men, against all the laws of England. Martial law has arbitrary principles and arbitrary power: we like not these arbitrary principles in any councils: this army has the youth of the nation; it debauches them, and fills them with such principles, that towns by them are debauched; common violences they commit. Besides the French League and Evil Counsellors,' this is still a terror in our fears of Popery: if any one of these are left out, it will help to set up the other three: asks, at last, That this may be voted a Grievance;' the others are grievances,' but the army is a Legion: and, to follow the metaphor, hopes they shall not be choaked in the sea,' nor cast away beyond sea, to support this alliance, but disbanded. Sir Eliab Harvey knows of abundance of petitions that will be presented you against these men: if you send them abroad, they must be turned Catholics, and so many sent us back again: hopes you will vote it a grievance.' Mr. Sec, Coventry, would have you agree a ་ Sir Henry Capel. You have been told how difficult it is for armies and properties to stand together: Is not of that opinion that they are a security to us at home; knows nothing of affairs abroad: Our security is the militia; that will defend us and never conquer us: our defence abroad is our ships; the seaman's pay, and peas, and his coarse diet, well given him: Moves to vote this army a grievance.' upon terms, what is an Army,' and what Present only, an army now in being and no Standing Army,' knows not why they are called occasion for lay only your duty before 'Legions,' for among the Romans a legion was his majesty, that it may be a terror to the a band of 2000 men he is unwilling that his people, as you apprehend,' and tread in the country should be exposed; but now you are easier steps to him. in a war, thinks not that you intend that the king should fall down, and beg a peace of Holland: they know what your trained bands are, since the business of Landguard point: for the king to raise troops is not against law, but for those troops to be disorderly is against law; but if such a captain, or company, has done ill without order, it is no general grievance: two vintners killed two gentlemen; shall vintners therefore be a grievance? Some merchants robbed upon the highway; must all merchants therefore be a grievance? The gentleman is not well informed about martial law; it is as it ever was: in lord Strafford's command, and the earl of Holland's, when he disbanded the Northern army, and those of lord Essex's ariny (we may learn of our enemies) these were compared with all articles, and the best were extracted, and you will find them no French articles: hopes you will not say, it is not in the king's power to raise men, but let gentlemen show you any disorders owned by authority, and it is another case: but how will you vote this grievance,' when there is no illegality in it, only exorbitances of particular persons? Hopes you will not vote it a Grievance. Sir Tho. Lee thought, that, though the practice of accumulative treason against lord Strafford was condemned, yet his setting up Martial Law was justly disapproved then: The oaths in the articles, he is sure, are not legal: But you are told of vintners and merchants, and that these exorbitances are not allowed; but if we have no grievances till they are allowed by authority, we shall never have any: but they are to have another sort of trial than other men, and that makes them a terror: You have been told this morning, that upon their marches they have been quartered in private houses in Hampshire, and that they made people bring out their provisions, or they would take them by force in their marches.' They are taught to believe that they may do it; and should you make this Address to the king, he would find it a grievance' as well as you: you are now arming the king; nothing disarms him more than these exorbitances: But must these dragoons ride over the sea? We have no wooden horses to carry them, and by this you give the Dutch great advantage: We had success by the militia in 1588; you bad no army but them at that time: It has ever been the custom, that when men have been thus raised they have been complained of as a grievance, especially we wanting hands and mouths now in the nation; and would now -have it voted a grievance. Sir Rob. Howard. If there be not an intention of a standing army,' which we know not, it is too hasty a vote: would not have any distrust betwixt the king and us, and would give no argument to the king to apprehend it: Lord St. John. In the former king's time, a much less thing than this was voted a Griev ance; and now an army in our bowels all this summer and no employment for them, and for the county he serves, [Hampshire] he is particularly obliged to represent it as a Griev ance. Sir Tho. Clarges will not say it is fit now to disband them all; but at the conclusion of the last war some were made standing regiments, and fears now, after the war, it will be the same again: but the king is not minded of his promises by those that should do it; he is persuaded that the king would do it, but forgets it: but the raising money, and 15 or 16 to quarter in a poor alehouse, full of children, is a Grievance. Mr. Harwood. The king has many things laid upon him that he has not done: the king raised not these men but his counsellors, who have got by these things: How many Addresses against Popery, and yet papists put into command! He that commands our men in chief is a stranger*, and he next in command a Papist +: Cannot wonder at those persons that have spoke against these things as Grievances. Were he as they, possibly he should say so too; but they cannot think so. We are come to that pass, that no law can restrain these people; houses taken from us, our lives in danger; he cannot say one has suffered death by them, but some have been soundly swinged: would vote it a Grievance. Sir Rob. Curr. No man can say, that a Standing Army in a time of peace, was ever attempted: most of the forces were about Norfolk and Suffolk, where the Dutch have attempted landing; Your Addresses formerly were to disband them, when the war should be ended,' and will you now do it 'the war in being? It is not for your service. Sir Rd. Temple. The practice of these men is a Grievance. He knows no law that can empower them to raise money; the continuance of them will be more a grievance, and what is an oppression, is a grievance. Mr. Powle answers Mr. Sec. CoventryWhatever body of men are raised for no use, * Count (afterwards duke) Schomberg, killed at the battle of the Boyne, in 1690. + Earl of Feversham, a Frenchman by birth, and nephew to Marshal Turenne. |