613] Thames Bathing Bill. Mr. Horner said, that it was absurd to attempt to conceal the fact, that not only Prussian and German, but French money, was now coined at the British Mint most extensively; and it was almost equally certain, that British guineas to a great amount were melted into Louis-d'ors. He admitted that it might be a necessary expedient, but it was absurd to keep laws upon the statute book against individuals, to prevent melting the coin of the realm, when Government were guilty of the crime to so enormous an extent. Mr. Baring said, that this practice appeared to him to be exercising an unjustifiable act of sovereignty over those countries whose coins we imitated without express permission. What should we say to foreign nations who should venture to fabricate guineas for us? The Report was then agreed to. MONUMENT TO SIR EDWARD PAKENHAM.] Lord Castlereagh, in rising to propose that a monument should be erected to the of the late sir Edward Pakenham, memory assured the House, that whatever delay had taken place in proposing the present vote, was to be attributed only to an anxiety not to infringe those rules by which the proceedings of Parliament in cases of this nature had hitherto been guided. The general principle had been to connect with records and tributes of this nature something of a successful issue to the occasion on which the individual had fallen, or had acquired distinction. There were, however, he had discovered, exceptions to this rule, and he was far from thinking that the present instance was not one in which the exception ought to be allowed. Monuments had sometimes been voted where Parliament had not previously expressed their approbation by a vote of thanks; and if this had ever occurred, he could conceive no reason why that honour should not be decreed to a soldier, distinguished on so many memo-rable occasions, and whose whole short but active career had been passed in the highest schools of his profession. He was generally admitted to be not only a good exact regimental disciplinarian and an officer, but to possess all those endowments of mind which were essential to the more important duties of command. After having acquired great reputation in the West Indies, where he was twice wounded, he applied to be sent to the Peninsula, though in very bad health, where, from the period of the battle of General Gascoyne bore testimony to the gallant behaviour of general Pakenham, who, when first struck, had advanced within thirty yards of the fort, which was the only difficulty which remained to be surmounted; he was then struck by a ball, and being about to mount a horse which was brought him, he was struck by another ball in the spine, which terminated his valuable life. He hoped there would Mr. Wynn suggested the propriety of not be a dissentient voice on the question. entering the several votes of thanks of the House to general Pakenham, to the number of six, which having been done, the motion was unanimously agreed to. THAMES BATHING BILL.] On the motion for the second reading of the Thames Bathing Bill, Mr. Bathurst wished the committee on this Bill to be fixed for Thursday, on which day he should propose a clause to limit the operation of the Bill. Mr. Wynn observed, that the object of the Bill was to restore to the public the advantage of bathing in the river Thames, of which they had been deprived by a clause introduced into the Thames Police Bill, at a late period of the last session, which left a discretionary power to the magistrates, of which they had availed themselves, by prohibiting persons from: bathing on the shores of the river Thames, from Blackwall to Battersea-bridge, under a penalty of 20s. As this was a most injurious encroachment on the comfort of the lower classes, there being at common law sufficient remedy against public indecency, if any such were complained of,. 2 he thought the Bill should be allowed to pass in its present state, to put the law upon its old footing. Mr. Bathurst thought that some power of summary punishment, by fine, should be given against offenders against decency, as the common-law remedy was expensive, and the punishment severe. Mr. Wilberforce observed, that the Bill before the House would go to sanction the indecency frequently committed on the banks of the Thames, and would be a declaration of Parliament that it was expedient that persons should expose their naked bodies on the banks of the Thames. Mr. Horner said, the hon. gentleman had committed a pious fraud in his statement of the case, because the Bill would merely declare, that it was inexpedient to make a provision to prevent all bathing between the West India docks and Battersea, there being already a law against any indecent exposure of the person, either in the Thames or elsewhere, which had been exerted against one of the most celebrated wits of Charles the second's court, sir Charles Sedley. Nothing, be thought, should be left to the discretion of the magistrates on this subject. Mr. Wynn observed, that the country had gone on extremely well under the old law on this subject; and if decent females who took the water were annoyed, it was better they should stay at home than that the health of all the lower classes of the metropolis should suffer for the accommodation of their delicacy. Queen Elizabeth, with her maids of honour, used to go from Whitehall to Greenwich, or to Richmond, in barges, and the archbishop of Canterbury to pass in a barge to attend his duty in parliament, at times when the practice of bathing in the Thames was more common than at present. Besides, the Police Act had no provision against persons undressing or exposing themselves, so it was not with an intention to bathe. Sir J. Newport said, if bathing was prohibited in the Thames, a similar law must be passed with reference to every other river in the United Kingdom, as it would be unjust to legislate for one place without extending the benefit of the same legislation to others. Thus the inhabitants of Dublin, Liverpool, Bristol, and other great towns, must be subject to similar laws. Mr. Wrottesley thought that the clause ought to be repealed, as it had been introduced without any notice. Mr. Preston thought that the House would be more nice than wise, if they were to legislate on such a subject. Mr. Wilberforce said, that with regard to Dublin, to which a right hon. baronet had alluded, he apprehended it would not be very necessary to pass any law for prohibiting bathing in that city, as he understood the river Liffey, which flowed through it, was not of that pellucid nature which would afford many inducements to such amusements. He did not consider the antiquity of the practice of bathing in the Thames as an argument for its continu ance. If this was once admitted, many other practices might obtain, which would be injurious to the peace of the metropolis, but which had been abandoned for years. It was only a few days since he dined with a gentleman who had shot snipes and woodcocks in St. Martin's-in-the-Fields. However correct that amusement might have been formerly, he did not consider that it ought to be permitted at present. The Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Thursday. Mr. Bathurst moved that the committee have power to amend the Thames Police Act. He thought it would be proper to revive the provisions as to bathing, somewhat modified; one reason for which was, that the want of deference in the lower classes towards the higher, which had increased so much of late years, rendered some alteration in the law necessary. The House divided: For the motion, 21; Against it, 15: Majority, 6. CHAPEL EXEMPTION BILL.] On the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the House went into a further consideration of the Chapel Exemption Bill. The right hon. gentleman said, it had been proposed that one seat in ten in all chapels to be built in future should be allotted to the poor; but he would move as an amendment, that one seat in five should be reserved for that description of persons. General Thornton wished, in the first place, to oppose the amendments, and then to throw out the Bill altogether. The Speaker then put the question, that the Bill, with its amendments, be engrossed. General Thornton lamented, that some gentlemen of great abilities, who intended to oppose the third reading of the Bill, were not then present; but as he had inti mated his intention of opposing it in every stage, he would then declare, that it seemed of a dangerous and alarming nature, It called on the members of the established Church to support the dissenters, and exempt certain places for the gratuitous in struction of the poor, where no religious instruction whatever was given. A right reverend prelate had recently preached a sermon before the Society for promoting Christian Knowledge, wherein he maintained, among other points, that we should guard against all the modern doctrines of liberality and toleration, and that indifference to forms of faith was indifference to truth and falsehood. The hon. general, therefore, sincerely embracing these opinions, moved that the Bill should be engrossed on that day three months. This amendment was put and negatived, and the original question carried. HOUSE OF LORDS. Tuesday, June 6. PETITIONS AGAINST THE CORN BILL.] Earl Stanhope presented a petition from Stirling, praying a repeal of the Corn Bill. He moved that the petition be read at Jength, that their lordships might hear the excellent arguments which it contained. The petition was read accordingly; and after stating some of the common objections to the Bill, it mentioned something respecting mean and selfish artifices having been employed in passing the Bill,-that the object of it was to raise the price of the necessaries of life-that the Bill had been passed with precipitation, so as to render it impossible to present numerous petitions which would otherwise have been presented against it-and the petitioners, while they regretted the tumults that had taken place, lamented the little attention which had been paid to the almost unanimous voice of the people constitutionally expressed. Lord Redesdale opposed the receiving of this petition, on the ground that it was not couched in decent and respectful language, and particularly adverted to the words that mean artifices had been used in passing the Bill. This was accusing their lordships of undue and selfish motives; and for this, among other grounds, appearing on theface of the petition, he could not vote for its being received. Earl Stanhope said, that while people were starving, it could not be hoped that they would be very guarded in their language; but there was no intention to insult the House, for the words mean artifices' did not allude to any thing done in parliament, but to the means for getting it passed, used out of the House. any other objections, he called upon the noble lord to state any one of them. As to Lord Redesdale mentioned the words, that the object of the Bill was to raise the price of provisions,' which was utterly false and unfounded, as the grounds on which the Bill had been passed were of a totally different description. He also mentioned the passage where the House was accused of having proceeded with undue precipitation, which was a direct charge against the House of having acted from corrupt motives. It was time for their lordships to make a stand against petitions worded in this manner, otherwise they would be perpetually insulted: and as to the people who presented them being poor and starying, the petitions did not by any means appear to be from persons of that description. They were from a manufacture, and worded pretty nearly in the same manner. Earl Stanhope did not know what the noble lord meant by their being from a manufacture, for he defied him to point out a single petition before presented which was so worded; and that was a flat contradiction. The petitioners stated that the object of the Bill was to raise the price of the necessaries of life, but they did not say that such was the object of that House; and as to the charge of precipitation, he thought it fair, when coming from those who had been prevented from petitioning against the Bill during its progress, by the haste with which it was carried through. The House then divided on the question, that the petition be received:-Contents, 5; Proxies, 5-10. Not-contents, 9; Proxies, 11-20. The petition was accordingly rejected. The Marquis of Douglas presented a petition also against the Corn Bill from the Corporation of Weavers in Rutherglen, which was received as the petition of the person signing it. The marquis then presented a petition from the Corporation of Tailors of Rutherglen, also against the Corn Bill. Lord Melville opposed it, as containing expressions insulting to the House. The Marquis of Douglas contended that it was of the greatest importance to throw their doors wide open to petitioners. As to insulting the House, he could not believe that any such thing was intended by the petitioners; but he had done his duty in offering it. Their lordships would dispose of it as they thought fit. a The Marquis of Lansdowne agreeing that petitioners. The object was not to set the doors ought to be thrown wide open to the agriculturists and the manufacturers petitioners, yet thought that there were in against each other, but to show that the . sulting expressions in this petition, and that measure had been carried in opposition to it ought not to be received. the interests of both by the Government, The Earl of Lauderdale also contended, on account of the supply which it afforded that the language of it was improper, as in the way of laxation. accusing the House of artifice and corrupt Earl Stanhope said, it was not wonder. motives. It had been said, that the people ful, considering what the petitioners must were starving: but he would ask whether have heard about Aylesbury and Helsion, the price of corn had risen to an unreasona- and other places, if they thought that ble height, or whether there was any time representatives were sometimes sent op 10 at which it could with less show of reality parliament in a manner in which they be contended that the people were starv. ought not to be sent. ing? As to the charge of precipitation, the The Earl of Caernarvon said, that the matter had been under consideration for petition contained something like a metwo years in a committee of the other nace, in speaking of a point beyond which House, and one year in a committee of this submission ceased to be a virtue, and for House, and every exertion bad been used that and other reasons ought to be reto induce petitioners to come forward, but jected. without effect; so that the object appeared The petition was accordingly rejected. to be to keep them back till the last moment, so as to procure some appearance of HOUSE OF COMMONS, a ground of complaint. Earl Stanhope said, he had not stated Tuesday, June 6. that the people were starving from the Irish Master Of The Rolls.] Ou the effects of inis Bill, but that the people in motion of Mr. Peel, the House went into a . the quarter from whence the petitions Committee on the Act 41 Geo. 3. c. 25. came were in great distress for want of for the better regulation of the office of employment; and being compelled to work Master of the Rolls in Ireland, and for for diminished wages, they thought their augmenting the Salary annexed to the distress much aggravated by the Act in said office. question. Mr. Peel stated the grounds on which The Marquis of Douglas, in deference he proposed an increase of salary to the to the sense of the House, agreed to with- Irish Master of the Rolls. His present draw the petition; but earl Stanhope said, income was 3,5001. a year-o ihis he that he would not agree to its being with- meant to propose an addition of sool. 10 drawn if the House did not like it, they make the annuity 4,3001. The retiring might reject it. The petition was accord- salary of this officer was 2,7001. to which ingly rejected. he would move an augmentation of 6001. The Marquis of Douglas then presented to make it clear 3,3001. The salary of the a petition to the same effect from the Master of the Rolls in Ireland was reguparish of Campsie, in Renfrew. The peti. Iated in 1801. Since that time the salaries tion adverted to the want of feeling in the of all the puisne judges had received an Legislature for the interests of the people, addition, and when it was considered that and stated something about the Legislature he ranked next the Chief Justice of the becoming more corrupt than the Exe- King's-bench, and above the chief judges cutive, and that there was a point beyond of the other courts, it would appear eviwhich submission ceased to be a virtue. dent that the nature of bis station required Lord Redesdale opposed it. Some of the means of corresponding dignity. The these petitions seemed, he said, to be sedi proposition which he then subunitied, had tious libels, tending to the disturbance of received the approbation of the present the peace, by setting the land holders and and late Lord Chancellors of Ireland; it manufacturers against each other; and the was last year recognized by the House, in object appeared to be to get them into their having given leave for the introcirculation in this way, when the peti- duction of a bill, to increase the retiring tioners could not venture to circulate them pension of the Master of the Rolls ; but the in any other way. Bill was not followed up, because it did The Marquis of Douglas had a more not embrace the augmentation of the charitable view of the intentions of the officer, while in the discharge of bis duty. a The right hon. gentleman concluded by speak of the judges with respect; but he paying a handsome compliment to the really thought that in this country, as well individual who now occupied that high as in Scotland and Ireland, increases to station in Ireland, and moved, “ That his their salaries were granted a great deal too Majesty be enabled to grant, out of the easily. Consolidated Fund of Ireland, such an. Mr. Peel said, that in his situation he nuity, in augmentation of the present could not be considered a competent judge salary and profits of the office of Master of the adequacy of the salaries of judges. of the Rolls in Ireland for the time being, The proposed augmentation had not only as will make up his salary and profits to the approbation of the present Lord Chan the annual sum of 4,300l. Irish currency; cellor, but also of the late Lord Chancellor and that his Majesty be enabled to grant, of Ireland. under certain conditions to be limited, Mr. Horner, said he spoke generally; he unto any person who shall have executed did not care whether it was lord chanthe said office, an additional annuity of cellor Green or lord chancellor Manners 600l. Irish currency, such annuity to be who recommended the measure; all he granted to him after his resignation of meant was, that the opinions of judges resuch office." specting the increase of the salaries of Mr. Abercrombie hoped full opportunity other judges were no authorities, and would be given for considering this mea- ought not to be listened to by the House. sure. He believed the Master of the Rolls Mr. Peel was in the sense of the House, in England beld a situation inferior in in- if the hon. and learned gentleman had not come to that of the Master of the Rolls in expressly said that the Lord Chancellor of Ireland; that he received only 4,0001. a Ireland would next year come forward for year. He knew not whether a house was an augmentation of his salary with the apalso found by the public in Ireland. The probation of the Master of the Rolls. present Master of the Rolls had declined Mr. Whitbread asked if the right hon. to receive an augmentation to his salary, gentleman considered that lord Manners when the other judges received theirs. was always to be Chancellor of Ireland, or Mr. Peel said, that the income of the that lord Eldon was always to be Lord Master of the Rolls in England was 4,5001. Chancellor here? His hon. and learned besides his house. friend could not be supposed to mean any Mr. Horner hoped the measure would particular lord chancellor. not be acceded to without discussion. Mr. Rose supported the motion. Year after year increases were made to Mr. Lockhari understood that the late the salaries of judges in Scotland and Ire Master of the Rolls had not held his situaland. The salary of Master of the Rolls tion many years, and had not retired in was, at present, on a footing of equality, ill health. Coming year after year or nearly so, in Ireland and England. increase of salary, had a strong tendency Now, be held them to be officers of a to make the judges dependent on the tolally different rank, and not to be com. Crown, No doubt it was with Parliament pared together. The Master of the Rolls to grant or refuse the addition; but still in England was also an officer of state, the Crown had the power of originating and as such, was exposed to considerable the measure; and he thought, therefore, expenses. The Master of the Rolls in that this practice ought very much to be Ireland had a larger salary than the work guarded against. There was not the same he had to perform entitled him to. He ground for proposing an increase of salary protested against the mention to the House now as formerly; the price of necessaries of recommendations from judges in mea- had'very much fallen in Ireland. sures of ihis kind. He was not at all sur- Mr. Abercrombie thought that the House prised that ihis increase of salary should ought to be informed of the extent of have had the approbation of the Lord duties which the Master of the Rolls in Chancellor. And when the right bon. Ireland had to perform, before they congentleman should come down in another sented to this increase. year with a proposal for augmenting the The Resolution was then agreed to. salary of the Lord Chancellor of Ireland, he had no doubt that he would be autho. Auction Duties on Sheep's Wool.] rized in like manner to state that such Mr. Western moved, that the House should augmentation had also the approbation of go into a committee, to take into consithe Master of the Rolls. He wished to deration the different acts imposing duties + for an |