dict me, when I assert, that Ireland will be the stepping-stone to the invasion of Eng. land, and not England to the invasion of Ireland? Then, Sir, would it not be a wise measure, to apply this vote to a naval establishment in Bantry bay, would it not conciliate the affections of the people, and would it not shew that you were determined to treat them with confidence, and afford them the best protection against the common enemy? Sir, I will only detain the House to say, that although I do not think the Breakwater will by any means answer to the effect of the calculation upon your table: yet the right hon. gentleman has every credit for bringing forward any proposition to improve our road-steads. I am sorry to differ as to the extent of advantage, and in some respects as to the mode of proceeding; but on the great principle of improving our naval establishments, I certainly concur. With respect to what fell from the right hon. gentleman on the subject of Cherbourg, I can only say, that while I had the honour of commanding that blockade, in the absence of a most experienced and gallant officer, captain Malcolm, I saw with astonishment the activity with which the enemy was building his line of battle ships, completing the works about his bason, and the Breakwater which formed his roadstead. Captain Beresford thought the Breakwater would not injure Plymouth Sound; and that if it should only hold four or five sail it was worth the expence. The enemy could not get out of Brest with a south wind. Sir Joseph Yorke spoke in favour of the measure; and hoped that the hon. and gallant officer (sir H. Popham) would not press the question of opposing a committee of naval officers. He should have no hesitation of running into the Breakwater in a gale of wind, for which, in his opinion, his right hon. relation (Mr. Yorke) would long live in the recollection of the navy. Sir R. Bickerton approved of the mea sure. Mr. Herbert, of Kerry, said, that sir Samuel Bentham had asserted his having seen his plan carried into execution in foreign parts. Had this been enquired into? Mr. Whitbread had the highest respect for Mr. Rennie as a civil engineer; but at the same time he thought any thing coming from sir Samuel Bentham, civil engineer of the navy, was deserving of great consideration, some of whose objections to Mr. Rennie's plan, owing to some informality were, he understood, never yet examined into. It might be questioned whether the improvement was equal to the expence, which although estimated at 1,100,000l. would in the end probably amount to two millions; and it might also now be doubted from the opinions delivered, whether this work would bring about any relaxation in the blockading system. He was glad, however, that something was likely to be done; nothing being so bad as indecision; yet before going too far it might be advisable to enquire farther into the practicability of the measure. Sir Charles Pole held the objection of a fleet getting out of Brest before it was possible to get out of the Breakwater perfectly nugatory. He lamented that the work was not begun in 1806. he Lord Cochrane imputed the supposed necessity for this Breakwater to the usage of making men of war take in their masts, &c. in open roadsteads, instead of going into harbour for that purpose; a practice which occasioned the greatest discontent in the navy, as it prevented the sailors from ever getting on shore. Under the existing circumstances of the country, thought every expence not absolutely necessary ought to be avoided, but, if he might be permitted to do so, he would move as an amendment to the question before the House, "That towards the construction of this Breakwater, a duty of 50 per cent. be levied on all Sinecures, which the committees of parliament had declared ought to be abolished, and a duty of 20 per cent. on all other sinecures." The Speaker observed, that it was not competent to the noble lord to make such an amendment. All that the House could do was, directly to assent to or dissent from the motion for agreeing to the resolution. Lord Cochrane said, that the money which, according to his proposition, might be raised from the holders of revenue offices, would be much better employed in dropping stones into Plymouth Sound, than in giving Burgundy, Champagne, and dances to the ladies of London. Mr. Buring thought the proposed naval arsenal at Northfleet more necessary than the Breakwater in Plymouth Sound. Mr. Yorke said, the Breakwater would in a very few years, by the saving it would occasion, more than repay its expence. He thought that both the arsenal at North fleet and the present work were necessary; and that we had not yet done enough. Mr. Bentham was not, as had been stated, civil engineer of the navy, and had at present sufficient occupation in his own department. The sum wanted at present was merely to enable the necessary preparations to be made; and no pains would be spared to get information with respect to the carrying the plan into execution. The resolution was then put and agreed to. HOUSE OF LORDS. Wednesday, March 18. MUTINY BILL.] The order of the day being read, for the House to go into a Committee on the above Bill, Earl Grosvenor rose and said, it would depend very much on the answers he should receive from the noble Secretary of State for the War Department, whether he would assent to the Bill then going into the committee, or move that the order should now be discharged, that it might be renewable for a future day. There were some very important points, connected with the military exertions of the country, on which he wished to receive information; and he would state to the House what he had himself heard, and which, if true, was highly deserving of their lordships' most serious consideration. He had learned that the practice had lately obtained footing in the army, of transferring large bodies of persons, sentenced to imprisonment on board the hulks, to be attached to regular regiments. To the proceeding which had heretofore prevailed, he meant not to object. No good reason could be assigned against the introduction of a few persons into the army, who felt sincere contrition for their improper conduct. To prevent them would be an offence against humanity, for it was only giving to those, whose errors were venial, and who saw them in their true light, an opportunity to retrieve their character, and to improve themselves in society, if they were recommended as worthy of that favour; and, without such a recommendation, no secondary consideration should induce government to commute their punishment for service in the army. But, had they been always thus introduced in small bodies, that dissatisfaction which was felt in particular regiments, which beheld them entering the service, as it were, in armies, would never have existed, and he would not have had to complain of so mischievous a system. The next point on which he would touch, though not immediately coming under the cognizance of the noble Secretary opposite, was certainly connected with the situation of the illustrious Commander in Chief. He alluded to a report which had been spread, that orders had been issued to the recruiting serjeants of certain regiments not to enlist Irishmen, while foreigners were admitted without scruple. Why this exclusion should prevail, he knew not. It had been said, indeed, that the Irish were addicted to desertion. He gave no credit to this calumny; for he knew there were no braver, more generous, or more faithful soldiers than those of Ireland. They received any kindness done to them with gratitude; they repaid it with unvarying affection; and if they ever did desert, it arose from severity of treatment. He expected an answer from the noble Secretary, whether such orders had ever been in existence, and, if they had, whether they were now annulled?-He next came to the establishment of schools for the education of the military, a measure, which reflected infinite honour on the illustrious individual at the head of the army, as shewing an earnest desire to call the attention of the soldiery to their best interests. With respect to the system which had been adopted, he wished to make one or two remarks. In the first place, he understood that those military schools were founded on the principles of the established religion of the country. To that there certainly could be no objection. He had also been informed, that the mode of instruction introduced in those schools, was the same as that made use of at Madras. Neither, he thought, could any fault be found with that proceeding. But a very strange feeling appeared to have gone abroad on this subject. Many persons imagined, from a paragraph in the Address of the Society who espoused the Madras method of education, that those schools were not only to be founded on the principles of the esta blished religion, but that Dr. Bell's system, as at present developed, should alone be permitted, and that no alteration whatever should be allowed. If any improvement, however excellent, were proposed by Mr. Lancaster, or by any other individual, it was to be rejected; although tending to forward the great plan of national education, That such an opinion prevailed, absurd as it was, he felt perfectly convinced; and he stated it only for this reason, that the principle which many persons considered those schools as established on, and which feeling was calculated to do much raischief, might be officially disproved.-The noble earl next adverted to the compulsion which had been used to force the attend. ance of the soldiery at those schools. Undoubtedly, by the law, they might be compelled, by their commanding officers, to attend to their military duties; but that law, in his opinion, could scarcely be considered more powerful in compelling them to attend school, than it would be to force them to learn to dance, or to become masters of any other acquirement, not neCessarily connected with their regular duties. But as the education which the soldier was likely to receive, must be extremely useful to him in every situation of life, he thought all disgust at attending military schools would gradually subside, and, therefore, no enactment appeared to him necessary on the subject.-His lordship then called the attention of the House to a subject which, at the present moment, was extremely important-he meant the mode of recruiting for the army. He la mented, most deeply, that the system which had been formed, in 1806, by a great statesman, the late Mr. Windham, was not pursued. If the House looked to the enlistment in the year he had mentioned, and compared it with the returns in the present, the falling off in the latter, if they took away from the account the numbers who had been drafted from the militia, would be found lamentable indeed; and the more so, as, by the volunteering system, the militia, the constitutional force of the country, was likely to be ruined. He would ask the noble Secretary, what course he intended to pursue? Whether he intended totally to discountenance that system, which his predecessor in office (lord Castlereagh) declared he would not discourage, but which, in reality, he had discouraged? After the short trial that system had had, which led to very great advantages, that noble lord professed, that he would not do it away altogether; he would not completely discourage it. But it was impossible not to feel, that the strong opinions expressed by that noble lord on the subject, must have had a powerful effect throughout the country; an effect hostile to that system to which he was known not to be friendly. He demanded of the noble Secretary whether he intended to revive the system of 1806, or to oppose and discourage it, as had been done?-He would now shortly advert to a subject, which had occasioned very general anxiety, he alluded to the practice of corporal punishment, which, for the last century, had been carried to such an extent in the British service. He confessed, while he was in the command of a militia regiment, such exhibitions were disgusting and shocking to his feel. ings, and he did all in his power to prevent its frequent occurrence. It was a practice condemned by many most respectable persons who had written on military subjects; and, in the last year, a clause had been introduced in the Mutiny Bill, by which an option was given to, courts martial either to inflict corporal punishment, as the term was generally understood, or imprisonment, He knew not how far that well-intended clause had occasioned a relaxation of the more severe punishment. To ascertain that fact, it was in vain to enquire how far it had been acted on in general courts martial. Without the noble Secretary informed the House what effect the clause had on regimental courts martial, they must remain ignorant of the effect occasioned by the clause. This, however, he believed, that situations might exist, where, to take away, entirely, the power of inflicting exemplary punishment, would be attended with very bad consequences. But he supposed that the system would, at length, be so generally scouted by the army, as to render any specific enactment unnecessary. The noble earl finally called the attention of the House to the excessive enlistment of foreigners in the English army, and the placing of foreign officers in the command of British troops. On this subject, he was sure their lordships felt a considerable de gree of constitutional jealousy. In that statement, he was sure, even the noble lord on the woolsack would concur. The act of 1804 allowed 10,000 foreign troops in the country; by that of 1806, the num ber was increased to 16,000, and, beyond that, none were permitted. Now, he would maintain, that those who had incorporated any of those troops with the native force, or placed foreign officers at the head of British troops, had acted illegally, and were liable to punishment. He would contest that point with any learned lord, even the noble lord on the woolsack. He knew the laws were perplexed, but they ought to be made so plain and clear, that every person could understand them; and, | therefore, there could be no presumption to enlist Irishmen. Surely he must have in his advocating an opinion founded on a known, that the people of that country particular statute, although contrary to formed the great strength and stamina of that of the learned lord. His lordship the British army, and to imagine that an concluded by hoping that the noble Secre- order, such as the noble earl had spoken tary would return satisfactory answers to of, could ever have been issued from the inquiries he had made. head-quarters, was really ridiculous. With respect to those which were termed favourite regiments, every person must know, that their commander could not be prevent The Earl of Liverpool did not feel it necessary to go at length into the different topics which had been touched upon by the noble earl, several of which were noted from refusing some individuals, and reat all connected with the Bill then before the House. If, for instance, any improper latitude had been taken, either in sending persons to the army, who had been imprisoned on board the hulks, or in enlisting foreigners, they were substantive and distinct questions, which must be argued on their own grounds, and ought not to operate as an interruption to the present Bill. With respect to the transferring of convicts, he would state, that the hulks had, for a considerable time, been placed under the superintending direction of one of the most intelligent magistrates in this country. The system adopted by Mr. Graham, and his exertions, had produced the happiest effects; and, when that magistrate saw that an offender was penitent for his former crimes, he certified the fact, and the reformed prisoner was allowed, in some cases, to enter the army. Without such a recommendation, it was never permitted. The number who were thus brought back to society, might now probably be greater than formerly; but this he attributed to the excellent system at present on board the hulks, which tended to ameliorate the morals of the prisoners. But, taking the number thus incorporated with the army, in the most extended view, it would be found very trifling. Perhaps, indeed, too great a number had been sent to some particular regiments. If such were the case, it was certainly to be lamented, and ought to have been avoided. Sure he was, how ever, that where crimes were committed through indiscretion, or were occasioned by misfortune, and the perpetrators of them having become penitent, were desirous of returning to society, it would be most cruel to refuse them an opportunity; and, he would also observe, that many of the persons who were thus sent to the army, from their bodily strength, and their hardihood of constitution, were eminently adapted for a military life. He was surprised to hear the assertion of the noble earl, that orders had been given not ceiving others; and they certainly had a right to look minutely into the characters of those whom they enlisted. As to what the noble earl had said on the subject of education, it appeared to him to apply rather to diocesan than to military schools. But, it was bis firm belief, that if any improvement in those schools were suggested, it would be carried into effect. The noble earl had expressed his regret, that the system of a much-lamented friend of his had not been followed up. He certainly thought with his noble friend (lord Castlereagh,) that that system was most prejudicial to the recruiting service; and, in answer to what the noble earl had asserted, he would observe, that, under the present system, the army was more numerous, and better disciplined, than it ever had been. As to the drafting from the militia, from which the noble earl foretold such evils, he believed, and he was borne out by many experienced officers, that it would have a directly contrary tendency. Although, in the last year, many bloody battles and sieges had taken place, which necessarily induced a great loss of troops, yet, on looking to the returns, the British army would be found stronger now by 10,000 men, than it was at the commencement of the year, notwithstanding all those losses. He, therefore, had a right to infer, that, by adhering to the system which had produced such results, it would answer the most sanguine hopes of the country.-On the subject of corporal punishment he coincided with the noble earl, who seemed to think, that however much it was to be deplored, it could not be done away altogether. In the last session, a new clause had been introduced in the Mutiny Bill, leaving it optional with courts-martial to inflict imprisonment or the usual punishment; but, an adequate provision had not been made to carry that intention into effect, as no authority was given to confine offenders in the county gaols, which rendered it very difficult, in many situations, to exercise that discre and that the distress approaches so nearly to actual starvation, that they think it would be highly imprudent any longer to delay communicating their situation to the House: and that immense numbers of the industrious manufacturers in their neighbourhood, are reduced to the necessity of working for less than one fourth of what they would previous to the commencement of the war with France, whilst the neces tionary power. There was also a defect in the Bill of last session, as no power was given to deduct part of the offender's pay, while suffering imprisonment; without which power, he was convinced, imprisonment would do more harm than good. The Bill on the table, however, had been altered, to meet both those cases. The delinquent was now liable to imprisonment in the county gaol, and only a certain sum was allowed for his subsistence.saries of life are, since that period, nearly Much had been said on the subject of enlisting foreigners. Parliament had decided, that, in the present state of affairs, part of the force of the country should be composed of persons of that description; and, when they contemplated the exertions which had been made by the enemy with the natives of foreign states; when they considered that France could not have done what she had done, without foreigners-the House would not deny, that we also had a right to repel her ambition, by making use of similar assistance. The noble earl, though he made the assertion, had not adduced a single instance of a foreign officer being placed at the head of British troops. At all events, these questions were not at all comprised in the Bill before them, and therefore ought not to prevent the committal of the Bill. Earl Grosvenor was sorry that the system of the year 1806, was not only to be discouraged, but, as he gathered from the noble lord, was to be annihilated. The noble lord, in what had dropped from him on the subject, had by no means explained what he had asserted as to foreign troops. He did not conceive himself bound to adduce any instance of foreign officers commanding British troops; but this he would say, that if a single foreigner had been placed in such a situation, those who appointed him had acted illegally. The Bill then went through a Committee, and was reported without an amendment. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Wednesday, March 18. PETITION FROM BOLTON RELATIVE TO PARLIAMENTARY REFORM, &c.] Mr. Whitbread presented a Petition from the inhabitants of the town and neighbourhood of Bolton-in-the-Moors, assembled pursuant to public advertisement, setting forth, "That many of the Petitioners are, in consequence of the depressed state of trade, in a situation of extreme distress, doubled in price; and that they are convinced, by sad and dear-bought experience, that the expensive war in which this country has been so long engaged, is the immediate cause of the distresses they now labour under; and that the continuance of this war, and most of its concomitant evils, are attributable to the imperfect representation of the people in the House; and it is the humble opinion of the Petitioners, that if the House consisted of representatives of the people only, it would not, for any doubtful prospect of benefit to our allies, consent to expose the people of this country to the certain misery, ruin and starvation, which the continuance of the war must bring upon them; and that, though the Petitioners have, on many occasions, been proud to express their loyalty and patriotism, and their willingness to sacrifice their lives, if necessary, in defence of their invaluable constitution; yet they cannot help shrinking from the horrible form in which death now seems to await them and their helpless families, unalleviated by any circumstances of glory or of advantage to their beloved country; and praying, that the House will take into its serious consideration the privations and sufferings of his Majesty's loyal subjects in their populous district, and will devise some speedy means of relieving them; and further, that the House will, by all the means in its power, endeavour to bring about the so much wished for Reform in the Representation of the people and will also recommend to his royal highness the Prince Regent, that no means be left untried which are likely to restore to his Majesty's loyal and longsuffering people the blessings of peace." Ordered to lie upon the table. NATIONAL EXPENDITURE.] Mr. Baring said, that he rose for the purpose of moving for an Account of the total amount of money raised for the public service, in each year, from 1790 to 1811, by taxes, or by increase of the National Debt; and |