to exa

was nearly similar to that which last year respect to the extension of the powers of passed that House. It would be satisfac- the commissioners, he suggested that tory to hon. members to be in possession of they should be similar to those of the report of those commissioners who the commissioners of army accounts; had been appointed to inquire into the namely, to authorize them charitable institutions, previous to any mine upon oath, and upon refusal, to discussion upon this bill, and for that commit the parties. The power of fining, reason he should be very short in his expla- however, was to be exercised by a higher nation; but he had the satisfaction of in- authority; viz. by the vice-chancellor, forming the House, that prospects had the master of the rolls, or a judge of the considerably brightened by the success court of exchequer. A clause had been which had attended the labours of the introduced, the object of which was to commissioners, aided by the active and enable the commissioners to call upon the distinguished part which had been taken attorney-general to proceed in cases of irby many honourable members of that regularities. This course he had taken in House. This report, he had no doubt, imitation of a plan adopted in a bill which would give great satisfaction to the House had been introduced by sir S. Romilly: and to the country, and would show that viz. to proceed by petition before the the inquiries had been made without pain lord chancellor, and he should recommend or vexation to any of the parties concerned. that both parties should be relieved from Having said so much, he should proceed the expense of stamps. Another alterashortly to detail the provisions of the bill, tion from the measure of last session, and should direct his attention to two which would have the effect of abridging main points-1st, as to the mode in which greatly the length of this proceeding, the proposed alterations were to be made; was, to take away the intermediate appeal. and, 2dly (and this was the only branch As the law now stood, there was an apof the subject upon which he expected peal to the lord chancellor, previous to any difference of opinion), the exceptions the case going to the House of Lords. made in favour of certain institutions di- This he proposed to take away. By these rected to charitable purposes. As to the arrangements he thought the authority of commissioners to be appointed, in the the commissioners would be rendered former bill the number was eight, who more effectual, and he conceived that were to be entitled to receive regular there would be a considerable advantage salaries, and six who were to execute their in enabling them to call in the assistance office without compensation: there were of the law, with the least possible delay, also by that bill to be three commissioners to correct any irregularities which might required to constitute a quorum; and occur. He now came to the second head ; · therefore to form three quorums, one of viz. the exception to particular charitable the six unpaid commissioners must have institutions; and he begged to say that been necessarily added to the eight com- there was nothing new in the clause he missioners who received salaries. The had introduced, as compared with that first alteration which he should propose inserted in the bill of last session, exceptto introduce into the present measure, ing so far as regarded charities created by was relative to the number and power of private voluntary subscriptions. It never these commissioners, to multiply the was intended to carry the inquiries into former and to extend the latter. He such institutions, and, indeed, it would should propose that the number of paid be a most impolitic step; because, indecommissioners should be augmented from pendently of its indelicacy, it might eight to ten, and the unpaid commissioners have the effect of checking the increase of from six to ten. He should further sug- those most useful establishments. With gest, that two instead of three be a quo- this single exception, then, he had adoptrum, excepting in the case of a reported the clause which had been introduced being made to parliament, and on such an occasion, five at least should be required to draw up the report. As to the payment of the commissioners salaries, he proposed that it should be 1,000l. a-year; and for this purpose he should move a grant of 10,000l. for the salaries, and 8,000l. for contingent expenses. With

into the bill of last session. With regard to those charitable institutions which had special visiters, they had also been excepted. Such a clause had been introduced into the former bill, and he conceived that little objection would be made to it. Upon the general propriety of this exception, the more he considered it the

more he was convinced of its necessity; and it was a principle which had always been recognized in every measure of a similar nature to the present. Thus he had shortly given the outline of this bill, and it would be observed, that it embraced a much more extended object than that which had passed the legislature last year. It would have the effect of giving greater activity to the labours of the com missioners, and of rendering them mild in their measures, and effectual in their purpose.

tary contribution, and were governed by committees chosen by voluntary contributors." The one part of this provision must be taken together with the other, so that it excepted all charities principally supported by voluntary contribution. Something of this kind was necessary in order to encourage charity. But if such an exeption had been introduced into the bill last year, that extreme subtlety, that ingenuity which knew no bounds, that love of objection to which the failure of the former bill had been owing, would Mr. Brougham said, he should give have at once rejected it. There was a his decided approbation to the greater doubt what "principally" meant. Was part of this measure. Upon a compari. it the half? Or, if it exceeded a mere son with the bill of last session, the House moiety, were the permanent funds not to would readily see his reasons for express- be inquired into. If 900l, arose from vo ing his cordial acquiescence in the pro-luntary contribution, and 3007. from land, posals of the noble lord. When he re- it would be too much to say that the flected upon the reception which that latter ought not to be inquired into. He measure had met with in the other House did not despair of exempting voluntary when he considered that nearly all the contributions, and at the same time havprovisions of this unhappy bill had been ing permanent funds inquired into. It the object, not of the most measured in- often happened that charitable instituvective or the least sarcastic ridicule, both tions originated in the more fleeting rein and out of parliament, he was indeed source of annual contributions. In such surprised that all these clauses which had cases it was too much to say, that because thus been indignantly rejected, were now the origin and part of the sources prorestored, and had the singular felicity of ceeded from annual contribution, the percoming recommended to the House by manent funds should not be inquired into. ministers. It was first proposed not only But if it was possible to avoid damping that charitable institutions connected with contributions without this exception, it education should be the subject of inquiry, was safer to leave the exception large but that all charities should be equally than to lose the benefit of voluntary coninvestigated. "What," it was asked, tributions. The next improvement in "inquire into all the charities of the king- this bill was the restoration of certain dom? Good God, what endless discus-powers to the commissioners. The bill sion! Why, there is not a village or hamlet without a charity. Confine it to education charities, and there will be some limit; but if it be extended to the whole range without discrimination, God only knows where it will end." Upon these grounds the clauses were rejected, and the bill had been narrowed. A few months, however, had produced a most happy alteration in the minds of those in another place. This led him to advert to one exception which the noble lord had added. A provision was introduced into this bill," that all charities which had originated or might originate in voluntary contribution, should be exempted from the inquiries of the commissioners." If the provision had ended there, it would have been inconsistent, for all charities originated in voluntary contribution. It was therefore added, " or where principally supplied by volan

of last year passed through that House without an attempt to refuse those powers; but it had come down from the other House with very grievous mutilations, and with the power only of calling those guilty of malversation before them, and trusting to them for a fair and candid account of their own misconduct. The commissioners had now the power of compelling them to attend. They had not the power of conviction, but they had the power of instituting process. It were better if they had the power of imposing penalty, and the vice-chancellor, the master of the rolls, or the chief baron of exchequer were to fix the amount. Another restored power was, the number of the quorum. Instead of two, there could now be five boards, the number of commissioners being increased from 8 to 10. The last power he would mention was that of instituting process in a court of

equity.

the coinage, be read; which being done he observed, that he had been induced to call for the opinion of the judges in consequence of what had passed in the late discussion respecting the Mint regulations. It had been argued, that as it was declared in a report of the privy council that silver coin had been depreciated 25 per cent from the year 1774 to 1779, the Mint regulations by which silver was depreciated only 9 per cent could have no injurious effect. He was, however, decidedly of opinion, that according to the existing laws the depreciated silver was not from 1774 to 1779 a legal tender by tale to any amount whatever. It was material that this question should be decided, before their lordships came to the consideration of the bill now on their table; for if his view of the state of the coinage was cor

This was a great improvement, since a construction was given to the statute in chancery, that no process could be instituted there against trustees whose title came in question. The exception of visited charities was of less importance, as the commissioners had constructed the act to authorize inquiry into all charities where the visitor was a trustee. He bowed to that authority, but if he had not seen that construction upon it, he could have entertained no hopes to that extent. But hisobjection still remained to the exception of visited charities, which he would state on bringing up the report. He was sanguine that he could persuade the House to remove the exception; but if he could not, he hoped to have a clause adopted to put the visitatorial power in motion, or to ascertain that it was in motion. He would propose another clause to em-rect, that bill could have no effect. There power the commissioners to make orders in case of gross and palpable malversation, without leaving the remedy to the delays of chancery.

Mr. Bathurst supported the bill, and recommended that they should rather think of conciliation, than revert to any differences with any other body.

Mr. M. A. Taylor contended, that if many of the charities which had special visitors were shut out of the operation of the commission, not half the good would be done by the bill that might be done; and instanced the case of Sherborne hospital, in support of his opinion; the master of which hospital, Dr. Bell, derived, on the average, nearly 1,700l. a year, although he was scarcely ever resident there. He remembered a school of which the late excellent archbishop of Canterbury was visitor, the master of which had actually turned the school room into a billiard room.

After some further discussion, the blanks were filled up, and the House resumed.

was a wide difference between circulation by sufferance, and circulation by law. Depreciated silver might serve as counters if it circulated by sufferance; but all money of a just value would disappear if the circulation of such pieces were enforced by law. The noble lord knew that about 33,000,000l. of the coin had, during the present reign disappeared. What was the cause of this? Was it any thing else than a depreciated currency? On this ground he urged the necessity of ascertaining what had been the legal tender from the year 1774 to 1779. He wished it to be determined by the authority of the judges, whether, during that period, silver, 25 per cent depreciated, was a legal tender for any sum. His reason for adopting the measure of the proposi tion was, that by the laws which existed previous to 1774, namely, the 9th and 10th of king William, it was expressly declared, that silver was not a legal tender if it had sustained any greater loss than that arising from reasonable wear. lordship then quoted the preamble of the act of the 13th of the king, chap. 42, which recites the acts of the 9th and 10th of king William, and entered into a detailed argument, to show that the law as estab lished by the latter acts remained in force until 1779. The act of 1774 had expired, and was repeatedly renewed, from year to year until 1783. As the acts of king William bad, during the period referred to, been the sole regulators of the currency, he was entitled to assume upon his first question, that silver coinage depreciated 25 per cent was not a legal tender to the ex

His

tent of 251. or for any other sum. With very terms made the measure of value. regard to the second question, its object After referring to an article as a measure was, to ascertain whether gold or silver of value, how could it be asserted that the was the legal standard of value. He thing measured was the standard, and not might have no doubt of the import of the the thing measuring? In short the act of parliament himself, but what was language of all the acts of parliament imunderstood by the judges to be the law on plied that silver was the standard of value. this subject ought to be known. Upon The second question which he wished to that question the effect of the bill on the propose to the judges, however, was whetable in a great measure depended. A ther under the act of the 56th of the king, clause in the act of the 56th of the king chap. 68, the gold and silver coin were provided, that the pieces of coin should equalized by raising the value of the silver pass for what their denomination imported; coin, or lowering the value of the gold. but the system of coinage introduced un- His lordship concluded by moving, der that act made a material difference" That the Judges be called upon to give between the silver and gold coin of the their Opinion on the questions he had country. Since sir Isaac Newton's time, stated." gold had been coined in the proportion of one to fifteen of silver. Instead of depreciating, gold had since that time become more valuable in comparison to silver. It was the opinion of many well-informed persons, that gold had risen to the proportion of one to 15 of silver in the market value. The Mint regulations, however, reduced it to the proportion of 1 to 14 and a fraction. Now, he wished to know what was the effect of this change as to the standard of value? Was the silver raised to the gold, or the gold depressed to the silver? His lordship referred to several proclamations issued respecting the new coinage, and inferred from them, that the gold had been depressed to a level with the silver. He read the proclamation of March 1st 1817, on the issue of the new gold coin, declaring that they should be called sovereigns, or 20s.-pieces and argued that it was impossible to affix any other meaning to that proclamation, than that the sovereigns were to pass each for 20s. lawful money of the realm. If that was not the case, the sovereigns were tied down to the value of a depreciated coin. He might be told, that this depreciated silver was only a legal tender to the value of 40s.; but whatever was the extent of the legal tender, the two metals could not circulate together with a difference of 94 per cent between them. Gold might be said to be the standard of value, which doubtless was the object of the act of parliament; but, in fact silver was the ultimate standard, for it was made the regulator of the gold. It would be well, therefore, if the language of the bill their lordships had to consider were in this respect altered, for whenever the price of gold was referred to, whether it was to be paid at the rate of 4l. 1s. or 31. 173. 6d., silver was, by the

The Earl of Liverpool did not think it fitting or proper to require the attendance of the judges on the questions propounded by the noble lord. When the weighty and important duties which the judges had to discharge, and the manner in which their time was occupied, were considered, their lordships must be convinced, that it would not be right to throw any additional burthen upon them, except in a case of great necessity. It was for their lordships to consider whether a case was made out which would justify the adoption of the noble_earl's proposition. In his opinion no sufficient ground was laid for the motion, because it did not appear that any result which such a proceeding might have would facilitate the decision of their lordships on the measure now before the House. Whether the act of the 56th of the king, and the proclamation respecting the coinage, had or had not been drawn up in an inaccurate and unworkmanlike manner, he should not discuss. The object of the act, and the proclamations had been obtained. There was not an individual in the city of London who had any doubt on the subject. He did not mean that there was not a theoretical difference of opinion as to what ought to be the standard of value. Some thought that gold ought to be the standard, others silver; but every one knew what the practical effect of the law was. With respect to the first question, his own opinion was very different from that of the noble lord. He believed that no diminution of weight from wear affected the legality of the tender. Under the act of the 13th of the king, which was renewed and continued to 1797, their lordships were aware that silver had been a legal tender to the amount of 25l. In its depreciated state,