evil complained of by the petitioners would be adoped.

The petition was laid on the table, and ordered to be printed.

PENRYN BRIBERY BILL.] On the motion for the third reading of this bill,

Mr. Holford thought that corruption had not been proved in a sufficient degree to warrant the measure, and moved as an amendment that the bill be read a third time on that day six months.

Mr. G. Lamb adverted to the evidence, to show that there existed a general spirit of bribery. If the House did not pass this bill, he should indeed be much surprised.

Mr. Williams spoke in favour of the bill. It had been affirmed that the bribery proved against Penryn could be substantiated against every other borough in the kingdom; but this he denied, and defied any man to prove a single similar circumstance against the borough he represented.

Mr. C. Harvey was decidedly opposed to such a sweeping measure as this, when by the evidence it appeared, that only a few individuals had been guilty of corruption.

Mr. Wynn recommended that the amendment should be withdrawn, and the bill itself postponed, and that some resolutions should be moved expressive of the opinion of the House.

Sir C. Burrell expressed his willingness to adopt the course proposed.

Sir C. Burrell took a review of the evidence, for the purpose of proving that bribery had been practised in the borough of Penryn, sufficient to justify the pending measure. With respect to the proposition of disfranchising the borough altogether, and of granting the right of election to other places, it was contrary to the principle on which parliament had generally acted. Mr. Abercromby declared himself the zealous friend of this measure; but he feared, from the advanced state of the session, that if the bill were sent to the Lords, it would be thrown out. He The House divided on the question, should therefore suggest, that the bill "That the bill be now read a third time," should be suffered to fall, and that a re- Ayes, 44; Noes, 22. The bill was read solution should be submitted to the House, a third time. Mr. Wynn then proposed declaring the intention of the House to the following resolution: "That it appears resume this measure at an early period of to this House, from the advanced state of the next session. The bill was a tempe- the session, that it is not expedient to rate and gradual mode of reforming what-proceed further in this bill during the preever was evil in the constitution of the House, and must contribute to remove many objections which the more violent advocates for reform were in the habit of throwing out against it.

Mr. Denison thought it extremely unjust, that a borough such as Penryn, where the electors were ready to sell themselves for 24l. should have the same influence in the House as any county in England, and more than such places as Birmingham, Leeds, and Manchester.

Mr. Martin, of Galway, said, that if the bribery oath had been forced upon every elector of Penryn, there would scarcely have been any corruption to be complained of. He would therefore vote for the amendment.

Lord Ebrington thought it would prove of great advantage, if the elective franchise were taken from this borough, and given either to one of the large manufacturing towns that were not represented, or to the great county of York. If the evidence before the House did not justify this bill, he could not imagine any case in which the House ought to interfere.

sent session of parliament." After a short discussion Mr. Wynn withdrew his resolution, and the bill was read the third time, and passed.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Wednesday, June 23.

FRAME-WORK KNITTERS BILL.] The Duke of Rutland moved the commitment of this bill.

The Marquis of Lansdowne feeling, as he did, for the distress of the individuals whom it was the object of this bill to relieve, regretted that it became his public duty to oppose it; but satisfied, as he was, that the principle of it was most injurious to our manufactures, he must resist its further progress. The object of the bill was, to prevent the manufacture of the web stocking-a cheap article, which had been originally introduced when the market was in a depressed state, and for the express purpose of finding employment for a number of the workmen, who must otherwise have been altogether out of employ; but it appeared to him to be

most preposterous now to prohibit the manufacture of this cheap article, in order to attempt to force the consumption of the dearer articles, for the purpose of giving more advantageous employment to those very individuals-an expectation, however, which there was nothing in the evidence to support. He could not conceive any principle more mischievous, than that of prohibiting the manufacture of cheap articles, in order to attempt to force persons to buy dear ones. Were such a principle to be generally acted upon, it must lead to the entire ruin of our manufactures and our foreign com

merce.

The Earl of Westmorland contended, that the bill was merely a measure of regulation, and that regulations had been frequently applied to other branches of manufacture. Unless this spurious article was prohibited, the whole of the manufacture must be ruined.

The Earl of Harrowby observed, that if the cheap article was to be prohibited in this instance, they might as well extend it to other branches of manufacture, and prohibit all cheap articles.

The Marquis of Lansdowne having moved to postpone the commitment for three months, the House divided on the question, that the word "now" stand part of the question. Contents, 25; Notcontents, 27: Majority, 2. The bill was consequently lost.

CASH PAYMENTS BILL.] The bill having been read a third time,

the 1st of July, 1820, for the 1st May, 1823, with reference to the commencement of payments in specie.

The amendment was negatived.

The Earl of Harrowby moved as an amendment to the clause which leaves it at the option of the Bank to pay in gold coin or bullion, after the 1st of May, 1821, that the 1st of May 1822, should be substituted.

The Earl of Liverpool observed, that if the Bank should at any time reduce their issues, in order to raise the value of their paper, the evil would carry its own correction along with it, for the public would then bring bullion to the Mint at a clear profit. By giving to the Bank the option to pay in coin, they afforded them a motive to accumulate treasure, and as the object of parliament was, that the measure should be gradual in its operation, the amendment was entitled to the consideration of the House. As some misunderstanding had arisen with respect to a statement of his the other night, he wished to repeat that, with the exception. of the five millions which would be required to pay the Bank, he hoped no other loan would be necessary during peace.

The bill was then passed.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Wednesday, June 23.

CHARITABLE FOUNDATIONS BILL.] Lord Castlereagh having moved the third reading,

Lord Holland said, he could not allow Mr. Brougham said, that though he the bill to pass, without recording on the should feel it to be his duty to oppose Journals an attempt on his part to acce- that part of the bill which exempted lerate the resumption of cash payments, from the scrutiny of the commissioners instead of putting them off for four years. those charities which had special visitors Had he been told at the commencement yet even if the bill passed with that exof the session, that he should give his emption, it would come near to that consent to a measure for postponing for measure which he had formerly proposed, four years the resumption of cash pay- and which had been altogether altered in ments, he should have hesitated to believe the other House. The bill before the it; but under the circumstances, if his House approached to the nature of the amendment were negatived, he should bill which he had proposed, by increasing certainly feel it his duty to vote for the the number of boards into which the compassing of the bill. His object in moving missioners were to form themselves, and his amendment, was, that there should diminishing the number of commissioners be sufficient evidence afforded to the pub-in each board. There were now to be five lic of the sincere desire of parliament to resume cash payments, particularly after the acknowledgment made by noble lords on the other side, of the error of their former opinions upon this subject. He concluded by moving, to substitute

boards, each consisting of two stipendiary commissioners. The boards, too, were enabled to call for papers and records by compulsory process, and there was no danger of its being resisted, as there was no limit to the fine which they might im

pose. One objection which had been | malversation. In the elaborate and able made to the constitution of the commis- report of the commissioners, there was sion on its present footing was, the amount scarcely a page in which some abuse was of the expense, and the length of time du- not mentioned, either in the school or the ring which the country might have to bear machinery of each establishment; and it. It was certainly a ground of objection there was a prospect that an estate to to a measure, if expense was incurred the value of 4,000l. a year would, through without adequate cause; but he should the means of their investigation, be ulshow that neither was this the case, nor timately recovered for a charitable founwould the expense itself be heavy. Under dation. A company who were trustees the bill of the last session, there were two and visitors of the charity, had carried boards of stipendiary commissioners and to their own account the surplus of the one of honorary commissioners, now there rents of this estate, after paying 3 or were five boards of stipendiary commis. 400l. a year to the purposes of the charity. sioners. If the five boards proceeded ac- If, as it seemed probable, this sum was cording to the rate at which the two awarded to the charity and nothing more boards had proceeded, they would in the was to be accomplished, the labours of year get through 1,200 cases. But there the commissioners would not have been was every reason to expect a more rapid lost. But they had done more by pointprogress. The commissioners would by ing out the almost universal abuse of habit naturally become more expert, and free grammar schools, which the masters the very knowledge that the commission generally regarded as perfect sinecures; was in operation would produce such an for whether from the decay of the places effect upon the parties concerned, that the at which they were established, or the labours of the boards would be much smaller importance now attached to the lessened. After the inquiry had been learned languages (the masters generally further proceeded in, and when the House conceiving themselves bound to teach knew how much had been saved to the nothing else), good houses and gardens poor by the labours of the commission, it and glebe land and often ample salaries, would be in their power to apportion a certain share of those funds for the ex- free scholars, but kept private boarding were enjoyed by masters who taught no penses of the commission; for they might schools for their own profit. In the next reasonably assume, that but for the la- session he should have to propose a meabours of the commission, those funds sure founded on the digest which he had would have been lost to the poor altoge- mentioned to the House. But whether or ther. The hon. and learned member then not the House acceded to this proposal, alluded to the magnitude of the importance the reporting the names of those who enof the inquiry, and went into some compu-joyed the revenues of these schools would tations founded on the data afforded by the digest of the returns to the queries of the education committee, to show, that there were in the whole 40,000 charities of all kinds in the kingdom. As to the effects produced by the inquiry, it would be found in the digest that the revenues of the charities in the county of Berks were 3,500l.; on inquiry, the commissioners had found them to amount to 5,500l. Those in Kent were reported in the digest to amount to 6,500l. a year; by the inquiries of the commissioners they had been raised to 8,500l. a year. This effect produced, without allowing the fear of inquiry time to operate, and without any legal proceeding, was a pretty strong proof of the value of an investigation. In the counties of Kent and of Berks, the only ones which had been examined into, numerous instances had been found of neglect and (VOL. XL.)

He

necessarily produce a good effect. should now proceed to state his objections to that clause of the bill which exempted from inquiry such charities as had special visitors. His great reason for opposing the exemption was this-without supposing that there was any connivance on the part of the visitors, yet seeing there was a probability of abuses existing which had not come to their knowledge, there could be no objection to the interference of the commissioners who, would inquire and not act, who would aid and not supersede the visitors. But the exemption of these charities, while others were inquired into, was a gross inconsistency. The exemption of charities having special visitors was defended on the ground that the presumed will of the founder was not to be interfered with; that cujus est dare ejus est disponere- that he who gave the property could appoint the (40)

recalled the attention of the House to the striking difference between the present measure and the statute of Elizabeth, which not only gave power to the commissioner to inquire, but to "direct, order and decree." The present bill would (if the clause were omitted) be subsidiary to the power of the visitors-the statute of Elizabeth, but for the proviso, would have ousted them altogether. Even if the clause were rejected, it would be recollected that the universities and the schools under their visitation, and all the great schools, and the charities connected with cathedral churches, would continue exempted. As to the proportion of charities, having special visitors, the commissioners had found out of 260 cases, which came under their cognizance 12 or 14 having special visitors. There were others within the bounds of that inquiry having special visitors, which had not come under the notice of the commission; but at least there were five in the hundred in this condition, which, according to the computation (which however, he believed to be an exaggerated one) of 40,000 charities in England and Wales, gave 2,000 charities having special visitors; and according to the lowest computation, either of the total number of charities, or the average of those having visitors, there would be several hundred of them, and those, as might be expected, of more than ordinary value.

person who should inquire into the dis posal of it, and that to attempt to control him was to interfere with the sacred right of private property. This, however, was not the principle on which the legislature had proceeded. When no visitors were specially appointed, the founder and his heirs were the visitors. If he mentioned no other visitor, he was supposed by law to have willed that he and his heirs should visit the charity, yet in the statute of last year and the statute of Elizabeth, which went further than the statute of last year (for it constituted not merely a commission to inquire into, but a court of justice to try abuses), all charities not having special visitors were brought under the commissioners. With what consistency then was it said, "We will exempt the charity from inquiry where you have appointed a stranger, but we will not exempt it when you and your heirs retain the management." But if it was argued, that when the founder had shown a delectus persona by appointing a special visitor, parliament should not interfere, because it was implied that the visitor posses sed the full confidence of the founder what would be said when the confidence of the founder in a particular person, was so unbounded that he appointed him not only visitor, but also a trustee, manager, or governor? Why, in this case the act of last session, as interpreted by the commissioners, gave them a power to inquire. So that in cases in which the founder reposed a less Mr. Peel said, he saw so many gen degree of confidence, parliament would tlemen around him much better qualified not interfere in deference to his will; than himself to enter into the merits of yet when he shewed an extraordinary the question, that he should be very brief in degree of confidence then the commission- his remarks upon it. He must, however, ers stepped in to inquire. If the House contend, that the argument of the hon. negatived this exempting clause they and learned gentleman with respect to: would confer a benefit on honest visitors: the exemption of charitable institutions they would supply the deficiency of un- committed to special visitors, was by no frequent visitations; they would relieve means conclusive; for he could see no them from the necessity of standing in the reason why the will of the founders of odious character of accusers. Arbitrators such institutions should be violated; and would be afforded who would examine where by such will individuals holding dispassionately and according to the strict certain offices were appointed as special rules of evidence. There were persons, visitors, it appeared to him that their in high stations, who, from their situa- conduct should not be meddled with, untions, were visitors of many charities, who less special abuse were shown to have ocfar from wishing to avail themselves of curred. But how came it that the hon. that clause, were the last persons in the and learned gentleman had not brought, world to desire it. If he failed, which he forward a distinct motion with respect to trusted he should not, in inducing the public charities, and the reports of the, House to strike out the clause altogether, two cominittees of 1816 and 1818 regard-, he should propose an amendment, to allowing them, at an earlier period of the ses the commissioners to examine all cases in sion? So much wit and eloquence had which the special visitors desired it. He been displayed upon the subject of those

dependent-those who usually took the same views of politics with the hon. and learned gentleman-those whose opinions usually coincided with administration. Those on the first were

Mr. Butterworth, Mr. Bankes, sir T. Acland, Mr. Wilberforce, and Mr. Babington. On the second were, Mr. J. Smith, Mr. J. H. Smyth, Mr. Lamb, Mr. Warre, Mr. E. Smith, the marquis of Tavistock, Mr. Abercromby, sir J. Mackintosh, Mr. Brougham, sir S. Romilly, sir R. Ferguson, sir H. Parnell, sir F. Burdett, Mr. Bennett, Mr. Calcraft, Mr. Gordon, and lord Ossulston.

charities by the hon. and learned gentle- meant no reflexion upon the members of man and others out of the House, that he the committee, but it appeared that felt quite unable to make any adequate among them there were none connected reply to such exhibitions. But it would with or peculiarly interested about the be recollected, that upon the proposition universities; and had the House contemin that House of the committee of in- plated that any inquiry respecting those quiry in 1816, it was never mentioned universities was to take place before those that any investigation as to charities of committees, he apprehended that some this nature was to be referred to that such gentlemen would have been selected committee. That committee had, in- to mix with them. But to enable the deed, materially exceeded the authority House to judge of the constitution of with which it was invested. He was as these committees, he would read the ready as any man to admit the great ad- names of the committee of 1818; and in dovantages derived to the House and the ing so he had no intention of imputing the country from the institutions and labours slightest charge against any of them. He had of committees, but he must protest divided them into three lists:-the indiviagainst the right of any committee to ex-duals who were generally denominated inceed the powers granted, or the instructions given to it by that House. The committee of 1816 was appointed to inquire into the education of the poor in the metropolis, and into the way in which the children of paupers found in the streets might be best disposed of. That, indeed, was the specified object of the hon. and learned gentleman in moving for the appointment of that committee. Such, then, being the object, no one could have ever contemplated that such a committee would have undertaken an inquiry into the great scholastic establishments of the country. No one, for instance, expected that any investigation would have been instituted by that committee with regard to Westminster or Eton. It might be said, that some words were added, upon the proposition of an hon. friend of his, to the instructions originally given to the committee, but he was speaking only with respect to the constitution of the committee in the first instance, and he contended that a very wide departure had taken place from that construction, even before the addition of those words. If it were asked, why the attention of parliament had not been called to the reports of the committees of 1816 and 1818, especially in so far as those committees had exceeded their powers, he would reply, that the report of the former committee was not printed for some time after the termination of the session, while that of the latter was not printed until after the dissolution. But if it had been expected that any of those committees were to exercise the power of instituting any inquiry with respect to the universities, it was impossible that the House would not have been more particular with respect to the constitution of such a committee. He

Mr. Brougham, while the names were repeating, requested that the right hon. gentleman would read them slowly, that he might be able to take them down.

Mr. Peel replied, that he understood the sarcasm, but as it did not touch him, he was ready to comply.

Mr. Brougham denied that he meant any thing sarcastic; it was necessary that he should be furnished with the names, if the question were made to depend upon the political propensities of the individuals bearing them.

Mr. Peel again read the names of the six impartial members, and of the seventeen who usually voted with the hon. and learned gentleman. It seemed that it was in the contemplation of the proposers of the committee, that the universities of England should come under its cognizance. It was therefore to be expected that some gentlemen would have been named upon it, connected by knowledge and interest, with those establishments. Three individuals had been selected who generally voted with ministers; and on them it seemed was to rest the burden of protecting the rights of the two universities of