any opinions I have hitherto entertained; | but it is a little too much in the noble lord to expect that men should resign their reason and judgment, the result of much laborious investigation, from the mere apprehension of the unmeaning cry of wild and visionary.-The hon. member for Galway has been pleased to compliment me, for having procured him, as he says, a hearing from a meeting of the electors of Westminster some time since. I can assure the hon. gentleman that the compliment is unmerited by me; it is justly due to the electors of Westminster, who, I will venture to say, will at all times pay attention to any gentleman who attends their meetings, and conducts himself in the manner that the hon. member did. The hon. member for Newcastle (Mr. Wilmot) has, I think, been peculiarly unlucky in the whole of his speech, and more particularly in his historical allusions, endeavouring to prove, from the insolence and folly of the language of a misguided king, the slavish state and condition of the people of England, without recollecting that that same king, for his usurpation upon the liberties of the country, and the violence of his conduct, ended his career by losing his crown and his life I should, therefore, have rather adduced the example of that king, in aid of my argument, to prove the vigour and energy with which our forefathers resented any violation of the constitution, than have expected to hear it employed as a proof of their base and abject condition.-In answer to what has been said on different plans of reform, and which are practicable or impracticable, my opinion is, that the most practicable is that which obtains the greatest number of honest supporters; and to such a plan I shall be always ready to lend my assistance. I am happy to state, that the press has communicated many circumstances connected with this subject to the public with the greatest ability. An impulse has been given to the public mind, which will be long felt, and not easily forgotten; and, whatever may become of the present question, I am convinced, that the cause of reform will ultimately meet with the success which it so justly merits. The question being put, "That the other orders of the day be now read," the House divided: Ayes, 153; Noes, 58. List of the Minority. Becher, W. W. Bernal, R. Anson, hon. G. Browne, D. Barnett, J. DISSENTERS MARRIAGE BILL.] Mr. W. Smith having moved the commitment, Lord Castlereagh urged the propriety of not pressing the bill further in the present session. He wished not to express any decided opinion as to the measure; but it was to be remarked, that it only gave relief to one class of persons, who objected to the present marriage ceremony-the Protestant dissenters, and not to the Catholics, who also objected to it. Mr. W. Smith repeated the statement which he had made when he first proposed the measure, to show that an object, which was allowed to be desirable, was obtained in an unobjectionable manner; the relief granted to one class of dissenters being afforded without prejudice to any other class, or even to the most rigid friend of the church of England. A part of the ceremony was to be left out when certain persons requested it. In the part that remained of the ceremony, not one word was altered. The Romish dissenters, it was said, objected to the ceremony in toto, but they were not placed in a worse situation by the bill; on the contrary, a door was opened for that relief which they were entitled to. As, however, it would be vain for him to hope to pass it at present, after the declaration of the noble lord, he should withdraw it, with | rance, freight, carriage, rent, salaries of agents, the intention of submitting it in the next repairs of returned stores, packers charges, &c. was 252,9391., or on an annual average 16,8621. session. Dr. Phillimore, without objecting to the end to be attained, suggested that the bill was open to two objections-1st. That by stripping the ceremony of all its religious part, it might be regarded with less reverence by the members of the church; and 2d, that the clergy might feel conscientious scruples in performing a ceremony which they were accustomed to consider as a religious one, thus degraded into a mere civil ordinance. 6,925 2. That it appears, that the present 23,749 storekeeper general, and the annual worth of 3. That it appears that the Store- 7,591 Sir J. Mackintosh, after recapitulating And making an excess of expenditure over the objections of Dr. Phillimore, observed, that of last year of 13,8127. independently of that the first of those objections appeared the annual value of two wharfs and wareto him rather singular, since nothing could houses (Wiggins's quay and Fresh wharf) bemore tend to lessen and degrade a cere-longing to government, and given up to the mony than the knowledge that persons conformed to what they did not believe, and uttered, under the form of devotion, words in which their hearts did not join, and to which in their consciences they felt invincible repugnance. The idea which gave weight to the ceremony, was the belief that it was a voluntary and conscientious declaration of the feelings, and a compulsory insincerity could only weaken the aid that religion and the law gave to this solemn engagement. was rather alarmed at the principle contained in the second objection. The marriage ceremony, and the other rites of the church of England were established by the act of authority, and the power which ordained could require (though it would not do it without deliberation) that those ceremonies should not be performed in certain cases. Religion was the relation of man to his Creator, but an established church was the creature of civil policy. He The bill was ordered to be committed that day three weeks. MENT.] STOREKEEPER GENERAL'S DEPART- 1. That it appears, that prior to 1808 the business of the Storekeeper General's department was transacted under the direction of Mr. John Trotter, of Soho square, and that his total expenditure for the same, for a period of fifteen years, of which thirteen years were in time of war, and which expenditure included all pay for establishments and contingent charges of every kind, such as insu(VOL. XL.) Amounting together to ...... 49,212 56,803 And forming an increase on the expenditure of the preceding year of 20,129., independently of the annual rent of the two wharfs and warehouses estimated asaforesaid (in (No. 2.) at 5,000l.: 4. That it appears, that his expendi- .... And that for the same year his con- Amounting together to 5. That it appears, that his Expendi- 12,645 122,904 135,549 .... 21,138 .... 120,698 21,647 52,032 153,329 178,035 HOUSE OF COMMONS THE DUKE OF KENT'S LOTTERY.] 73,679 Mr. Alderman Wood brought up the report of the committee on the duke of Kent's petition, which stated that the petitioner had not obtained any parliamentary allowance till he was 32 years of age, 59,448 and that previously to that time he had 37,318 been put to considerable expenses and 56,563 subjected to heavy losses in Canada, and compelled to contract considerable debts, and to raise money by way of annuity; but that by subjecting himself to the strictest economy, and living in foreign parts, he had reduced his debts to 70,000l. That to 48,766 86,986 discharge this sum, he was anxious to dis42,283 pose of the property of which he was possessed; that the only part of his property which he was enabled to dispose of, was his mansion at Castlebar-hill, and the furniture, which was valued at 50,000l., but which in the present state of the market, could not be sold but at a considerable loss. That he was willing, however, to sell this property rather than that the payment of his creditors should be longer delayed, or his royal consort be compelled to submit to privations; as he was desirous that no part of the allowance granted him by parliament should be expended in foreign parts, and that his daughter, newly born, should be from her earliest years educated in the language and customs of this country. He therefore prayed that he might be allowed to dispose of this property by way of lottery. 141,836 309,403 So that the expenses of the storekeeper general's department for these three years amounted to 156,0741. more than the value of the stores purchased by government (say stores) and to within 21,9007. of the joint amount of the stores bought and sold by government, although the stores sold in these three years amounted to two thirds of all the stores sold by the storekeeper general during a period of eleven years. to more than double the amount of those 9. That it appears that seven deputy storekeeper generals and assistant storekeeper generals have been placed on half pay, although none of their services extended to a period of four years, and the services of one of them to a period of one year and four months only; whereby the country has already been subjected to an annual expense, during the lives of many young men, of 7221. 7s. 11d.: 10. That it appears, that the establishment of the storekeeper general has been, from its institution, exorbitant, and is at present wasteful and extravagant, altogether disproportionate to a time of peace, and to the duties to be performed by it; and that therefore it ought to be reduced to an economical and efficient establishment, proportionate in expense to what the storekeeper general's department was before 1808. The first Resolution being read, the debate thereupon was adjourned till Monday. Mr. Alderman Wood said, that in moving to bring in a bill he should offer a few words. This lottery was not open to the objections to which lotteries in general were liable. The property to be disposed of in this case was of the full value stated in the petition. He was assured from the highest authority that it had cost 120,000%. The gentlemen opposite to him might object to it, because the sale of the tickets of the state lottery might be injured; but he assured them that this would not be the case; for such was the popularity of the duke of Kent in the city, that the tickets might be said to be already sold. There were persons would be ready to advance the whole sum on the passing of the bill. Why did the character of the duke of Kent stand so high? Because he had raised dormant charities, and created an immense number of new institutions. He was at the head of every institution con nected with poverty and disease, and aided them not by his name only, but by his constant labour and attendance. After detailing the several precedents for a lottery of this kind, the worthy alderman concluded with moving for leave to bring in a bill. Mr. Grenfell felt it his duty to resist this proposition, upon this ground, that its adoption would serve to create a very improper precedent; for if the duke of Kent were authorised by parliament to dispose of his property by lottery, what was to prevent any individual from applying to parliament for an act to authorize the disposition of his private property in the same way, instead of resorting to the ordinary means of sale in the general market; and the consequences likely to result from the toleration of such a system, were of such a nature as he did not think it necessary to describe. debts. He would add, that the Pigot diamond had been sold by a lottery granted to a private subject. Was it, then, because the duke of Kent was the petitioner on this occasion, that the House would refuse the request? Would they refuse to him what had been granted to others? The duke only asked for the lottery to enable him to pay off debts contracted under circumstances which he could neither direct nor control. He was confident the history of the duke's difficulties were not known, or they would influence gentlemen to think differently of the course now adopted by that illustrious individual. He should, as shortly as possible, put the House in possession of the facts. The duke, in 1785, at the age of 18, left England for Hanover, where he joined the Guards, and served with them for two years; he then went to Geneva, where he studied for two years. Whilst abroad, he met with his countrymen, whose society he naturally courted, and whose habits he naturally followed. The duke was only allowed, during these four years, two pistoles a week. He did not intend in any way to reflect on the parental conduct of the king in keeping the duke at this time of life so short of money; but the fact was so, and the consequence that followed may be easily anticipated by every gentleman. The duke got in debt, and could not do otherwise. At the age of 23, therefore, he had contracted debts to the amount of 20,000l., which he expected to pay off from the first parliamentary allowance, which he expected to receive at the age of 24. In 1790, the duke was appointed to the queen's regiment at Gibraltar, and joined accordingly, without receiving any allowance whatever as an outfit. In 1791, he embarked with his regiment for North America, where he remained withhis corps until 1794, when in January he received the commands of his ma Mr. Hume hoped the House would give him the opportunity of offering that explanation which the part he had taken enabled him to give, both of the motives which actuated his royal highness to take the course he had done, and the measures which had been actually taken. Having enjoyed the friendship of his royal highness for ten years, and been intimately acquainted with his public conduct and private affairs, what he should offer as to the transactions of that period, he could pledge himself for, and he should state no prior transactions that could be contravened. On the 10th ult. (said Mr. Hume) I waited on the chancellor of the exchequer to inform him, that the duke of Kent had been advised to apply to parliament for leave to allow his trustees to dispose of his house and lands at Castlebar-hill, by lottery. The chancellor desired a memorial to be laid before the Treasury by the duke for their sanction. This was done, and by orders of the Prince Regent referred to the lord chancellor and others of the privy council, who dis-jesty to join the forces then under sir Charles approved of the plan, alleging that it would be a most dangerous precedent. A second memorial was presented with like success, and the chancellor candidly informed the gentlemen who waited on him that they would leave the bill to the House. If the decision had been founded on fact, he should have bowed to the decision: but he contended, that the precedent of the Adelphi, Pickett-street, and Sunderland bridge lottery were in point, all to enable trustees to raise money to pay off Grey, in the West Indies. He did not delay as many would have done, under all the difficulties of the season and the country, to travel, but proceeded by land across to Boston, and embarked with considerable hazard for Martinique. In this journey, all his baggage was lost in one of the lakes, and he was put to very great expense to re-equip himself for the service he was on. After the termination of that campaign, expensive as it was honourable to him as a soldier, he returned to Halifax, and being appointed a major general on the staff, served there till Ŏct. 1798, when a fall from his horse obliged him to return to England for his health. On an allowance of 5,000l. a year which he received, and of which he was paying 1,000l. or 1,500l. a year as interest of his former debts, it is easy to conceive the rapid accumulation of his pecuniary difficulties. In 1799, he returned to Halifax as commander-in-chief, having then first obtained his parliamentary allowance of 12,000l. His majesty, as he (Mr. H.) was assured, had promised to pay the debts of the duke contracted from 1785 to 1790; but owing to his absence on the service of his country, and various unfavourable circumstances at the time, that was never done, and all the exertions of the duke could not discharge the debt. Ill health compelled his return in the following year to England, having lost baggage and military equipments to the amount of 23,000l. In 1802, his majesty appointed the duke to the command of Gibraltar, as a reward for his military services, and he joined the garrison accordingly. The duke was sent out to Gibraltar, with special instructions, and he had a difficult duty to perform, to reclaim the troops to habits of sobriety and discipline; but he did effect the object, though attended with symptoms of mutiny in part of the troops. By the suppression of the public-houses, to repress the drunkenness, he reduced the fees of the governor from 6,000l. to 2,000l. a year. He had been promised before he left England, that any sacrifice of emolument that the duke might make, to accomplish the discipline and sobriety of the garrison, should be made up to him. But that had never been done. During the nine years previous to, and including the year the duke commanded at Gibraltar, the average fees received were 7,000l. a year, and the duke, whilst absent, was fairly entitled to one-half, or 3,500l. a year for the 16 years past. But he has not got one pound, although his share amounts to 56,000l. Now, I would ask, what has become of those fees since the duke's departure? Was it unreasonable for the duke of Kent to ask from this fund to be placed on the same footing as other governors are placed? Mr. Pitt had promised to take the claims of the duke into consideration, but his death, and the indisposition of his majesty, had prevented any thing being done. In 1815, the duke urged his claims for the arrears of his parliamentary allowance and fees from Gibraltar, but without success, and seeing no hopes of any aid but from his own resources, he did then nobly and honourably resolve, by economy, to pay off his debts. Of the allowances of every kind which he received, he gave 17,000l. a year to pay his debts, and lived on 7,000, a year for the three years that followed, and until his marriage, which altered his establishment. If the duke of Kent were now placed on the same footing as to parliamentary allowance, as the duke of Clarence, elder only by two years, he would have to receive 96,000l. or 12,000 for eight years, from the age of 24 to 32, when he did not receive any. If he were placed on a footing with the duke of Sussex, he would receive 29,000l. As all these applications had failed, his own retrenchment has extinguished half of his debt; but being married he cannot live on the same reduced establishment as he did before. Having conveyed to trustees the house and grounds of Castlebar-hill, valued at a sum equal to all his remaining debts, he was anxious to have that property sold for the benefit of his creditors, and as the trustees had not been able to sell it at a fair valuation in the ordinary way of sale, he had been strongly advised to dispose of it by lottery, never doubting that this House would refuse to him what it had granted to others for like purposes. He did not approve of lotteries, but he considered the present plan as free from almost all the evils incumbent on money. prizes. Lord Castlereagh observed, that if the present motion were agreed to, he knew not where the practice of lotteries for the disposition of private property could stop. It could not possibly be imagined that any disposition existed to make an exception to any proposition, because that proposition was agreeable to the wishes, or favourable to the interests of a prince of the blood; but really, the present proposition was of this peculiar nature, that he was the more disposed to resist it because he would not in such a case consent to establish a precedent in the person of a member of the royal family. The worthy alderman had indulged in a panegyric upon the exertions of the royal duke to promote the interest of public charities, But no judicious friend of his royal highness could possibly advert to those exertions, with the view of making an appeal |
