Mr. Primrose objected to the bill, as calculated to pepetuate the evils of the present system of poor laws. Mr. Wynn complained of the absence of ministers on so important an occasion. Though he objected to some of the clauses, he approved of the general principle of the bill. Mr. L. Wellesley approved of the bill. Mr. Alderman Wood objected to the bill, on account of its dragging children from their parents to bring them up at the expense of the parish. Mr. Mansfield was of opinion, that nothing but patience could remedy the evils brought on the country by the protracted war in which we had been engaged, and that all the palliatives the House could apply would prove of little avail. # Mr. S. Bourne defended the bill, and contended that the opposite arguments urged against it ought to be held to destroy each other. There was nothing of harshness in that provision of the bill which went to separate the children from their parents; as persons in a higher station submitted to such a separation from choice, and sent their offspring not merely to another part of their parish, but to distant places, and even to remote countries. He was of opinion, that the effect of this measure would be, to spare many parishes half the applications which were now made. It was to be feared the habits of the present race of labourers were so formed, that it would be no easy task to effect in them that change which could be wished, and therefore he held it to be wise that the House should look to the rising generation. In them it might be hoped they would succeed in exciting a spirit of industry and independence, which it might be too late to revive in their parents. The House divided: For the motion, 47; For the amendment, 22. The bill was then read a second time. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Tuesday, May 18. MARQUIS CAMDEN'S TELLERSHIP BILL.] The Chancellor of the Exchequer presented the bill "to authorize the receipt and appropriation of certain sums voluntarily contributed by the most noble John Jeffreys Marquis Camden, in aid of the public service." On the motion for the second reading, Mr. Fremantle, not having been present at the time the subject was introduced, took that opportunity of expressing his admiration of the conduct of the noble marquis. He also called the attention of the House to the public spirit of the late marquis of Buckingham, who, when teller of the exchequer, had sacrificed the whole of his profits for three years previous to his decease. The Chancellor of the Exchequer joined in the praise bestowed on the marquis of Buckingham, and had no doubt, that if he had survived the war, he would have continued to apply a great proportion of the profits of his office to the public service. The bill was ordered to be read a second time on Friday. STATE OF THE NATION.]-Mr. Tierney said, that he rose in pursuance of the notice which he had given, to move for the appointment of a committee on the State of the Nation. In doing so he felt it necessary to throw himself on the indulgence of the House, since he feared he should be compelled to trespass for a considerable time on their patience. That indulgence, however, he had so often experienced on occasions of less importance, that he hoped it would not now be withheld. The best return he could make was to consume as little time as possible in the way of preface, and he should accordingly at once proceed to the question. His motion would be, that the House should resolve itself into a committee on the state of the nation. He was aware that if he acted only as a party man (and such, notwithstanding the odium which might attach to the confession, he was always ready to avow that he was), he should have abstained from bringing forward this proposition; because he was not so dull as not to perceive, that in bringing the question before the House, in point of mere party, he was giving up many advantages: he could hardly see how it was possible for the party (for they too he supposed must be considered a party) to which he and his friends were opposed, to stand in a situation less to be envied than at the present moment. It was difficult to imagine how any set of men could have been more cuffed and kicked about, and have taken the infliction more patiently, than the right hon. gentleman opposite with the noble lord at their head. In that respect they had displayed the utmost fortitude and forbearance; and if his wish had been only party triumph, he could not have done better than leave them alone: for an administration more | lowered in the respect of parliament, or more degraded in the estimation of the people, was certainly never exhibited to public observation. The mind of man could not conceive an administration more dead to all the feelings by which persons in high stations were ordinarily governed: governed by no principle, and attached to no system; exhibiting no symptom of vigour, but vigorously maintaining them selves in their places, they made such a figure in the eye of the world, that instead of being objects of admiration and envy, they sunk into objects of compassion and contempt. They had brought forward nothing-nothing of real importance; unless, indeed, some persons might attach a value to the fine fallacious speeches with which the House had been treated and the country deceived. Measures had been proposed by the opponents of ministers measures of the utmost consequence to the welfare of the nation, and which they, as a matter of course, had resisted: yet, at last, they had been driven into concession, and it was almost left to their antagonists to administer the law of the country. For instance, in the case of the proposed inquiry into the state of the penal laws, the ministers had declared that if the motion was carried, ruin must ensue that we might as well give up the administration of the penal laws altogether -that all the reverence for criminal jus- | tice would be gone. The inquiry into the penal laws was, however, entrusted (and in what better hands could it have been placed?) to his hon. and learned friend, the administration of criminal justice was not impeded; and the noble lord and his worthy colleagues bore their defeat most patiently. In the same way ministers had declared, that if the system of Scotch burghs was investigated, nothing would be safe-the constitution of the empire would be endangered-no man could say that his person or his property was secure -a revolution would be almost com menced-the wildest doctrines of reform would be let loose upon the country; and, in short, every national calamity would ensue, if the inquiry were carried: but it was carried-carried against the utmost strength of ministers; and they contrived, notwithstanding, to retain their places, He could, in fact, go through a string of defeats they had successively sustained, were it necessary; but no man could be so blind as not to see that opposition, as a party, stood upon such vantage ground, that, as a party, by the present motion they had nothing to gain. But he had other duties to perform besides those of party-duties to the country, and they ought at all times to be held paramount: with this view, he was willing to forego any little advantages he might otherwise possess, and to place himself in a situation of difficulty and embarrassment, in order to discharge conscienciously the high and paramount duty which the country had a right to claim. It seemed of late as if the noble lord and his friends had thought that they had no duties to discharge but to sit firmly in their places; but it would not do in these times to keep ministers merely to be looked at: if they put themselves in high responsible situations, if they were to govern a great empire, they ought to maintain their own dignity, and that of the empire; and if they did not, it was the business of the House to interpose. If ministers would not take care of their dignity, it was for the House to take care of its own; and for that purpose, he wished it to take a view of the real state of the nation with reference to the king's ministers. If there had been but two parties opposed to each other in the House, the issue of his motion would not be very doubtful: on the one side there would be nothing but zeal; and on the other, the whole weight of official attachment, and the influence of the Crown: but he now spoke in a House of Commons (having sat and spoken in very many) to which had been returned a larger proportion of men connected with no party than he had ever before remembered: they were a description of persons who professed, (and who had shown that they acted upon those professions) that they would vote without reference to either side of the House; and that they would weigh measures, and not men. He trusted that they would not be found wanting in trimming the balance at the end of the debate, and, if he made out his case, in giving him that support to which he should be entitled. He had to establish two propositions: first, that the present state of public affairs was full of difficulty, danger, and alarm, requiring prompt and vigorous councils and secondly, that under the circumstances of the times, it was the duty of the House to do what was certainly unusual-namely, resolve itself into a committee on the state of the na tion; not considering such a proceeding as a forward and officious interference, but as a measure strictly called for by the situation of public affairs. In making this proposal, he was not asking any gentleman to lend him his aid in thwarting and embarrasing the vigour, system, and energy of the executive government; but he was requiring him, where there was no vigour, no system, and no energy, to interfere between a weak administration and a tots tering country, by discharging the most important duty an honest member of parlia ment could perform. Wherever he cast his eyes, he observed that all the principal nations of the world had been for some time past engaged in endeavouring to repair the inroads made upon their finances by war, and to arrange and husband their resources for future emergencies. It was clear beyond contradiction, from the foreign papers the only sources of information he possessed that the states of the continent had all turned their attention to financial subjects; yet we, and it was a melancholy thing to say, who had much more to restore, and a deeper interest in restoring, were the only nation whose government had not devoted one moment's consideration to that great topic. doubtedly his chief purpose was limited on this occasion to matters of financial arrangement; he did not mean to occupy the time of the House by discussing subjects of a different kind, nor should he touch upon foreign affairs more than as foreign affairs bore upon the particular question; to that extent, however, he hoped he should be allowed to make a few observations. The world at this moment, blessed be God, was in a state of profound peace, and long, long might it continue; but, notwithstanding the exertions of the noble lord and the other ministers of the great powers, Europe was not in that condition in which the most sanguine could venture to look forward to a certain duration of tranquillity. In truth, the whole state of Europe, as far as Great Britain was concerned, had been totally changed-whether for the better or worse he did not stop to inquire; but the situation was indisputably new to this country. Heretofore we had supported alliances with various powers, in order to be better able to meet the possible hostility and machinations of other states; but we were now one of five powers who took upon themselves, whether properly or improperly he would not discuss, to settle the destinies of the continent. Whether we had any allies particularly connected with and bound to us, was more than he was able exactly to discover; but of this he was quite sure, that the great interests of Europe were in the hands of five states by means of the recent addition of France. Originally they had only been four who had first thought it their duty (and he did not pretend to quarrel with the decision) to impose upon France the galling yoke of maintaining foreign troops to preserve order and to maintain the reigning family. It appeared, however, that France had behaved so well, she had conducted herself so much to the satisfaction of her four masters, that at Aix-la-Chapelle they had determined to take her into partnership, and she now constitutes one of five powers, among whom Great Britain had one vote and no more. Upon this he had only to remark, that it was at least an uncertain state; the parties appeared to be bound by nothing but professions, which he hoped in God would be fulfilled-by a holy alliance," which he trusted would be as sacredly observed as it was piously worded. But these things were most precarious, and a reference to one circumUnstance must convince every body that they were so; viz., that when France was freed from the burthen of foreign troops, and she was called upon to be one of the five powers, the gracious communication was made to the duke de Richelieu, with many compliments from the sovereigns, which no doubt were well deserved: she was, in fact, invited to accede to the confederation, much in consequence of what had been done during the administration of the duke de Richelieu; it was therefore to be supposed that the potentates and their ministers were well acquainted with the line of policy one of the five powers would pursue; but no-in one little montlr after the troops had withdrawn, the duke of Richelieu was dismissed from his office. This brother ally, this fifth power, no sooner was at liberty to act for itself, than its line of policy was most materially changed, and the ministers of the different states having thus shown themselves to be utterly ignorant of the policy of perhaps the most important member of the alliance, were left to wonder at what they had never foreseen. Did this or did it not show, that at least the existing state of Europe was involved in great uncertainty? He did not blame the noble lord it was the last thing in his contempla Europe to which he must direct the attent tion of the House, with the same view as that with which he had mentioned France tion to provoke a hostile discussion on the subject of his conduct at present; there might be a time for that hereafter; but could the fact he had stated be contra--he meant America; she was out of the dicted, or the conclusion he had drawn from it be denied? He begged to ask for what did Great Britain go to war? Was it not to control the power of France? It would be said that she became more dangerous from her revolutionary influence? True; but the great and avowed object was, to deprive her of that great predominating preponderance by which she might be able to convulse the whole frame of Europe. What, then, was the state of France at this day? Was not her commerce reviving, and were not her finances arranged and improved very much by the assistance of England? Did she not now enjoy a free constitution? and in the name of humanity he thanked God that she did. Had she not a limited monarchy, and could not the people now speak through the voice of a representative assembly? All these were blessings recently bestowed upon France-blessings purchased by long and grievous suffering: they were not the reward (that was not the fit term to employ), but the result of her sacrifices, not only of blood, but, he would fairly admit, of character; for the restoration of which, years of good conduct would be needed. But could it be denied, that there she now stood in a much more formidable position than any man two years ago could have expected? He begged not to be understood as saying this with any feeling of jealousy towards France; or under any dread of her approaching hostility; he most devoutly prayed, that the triumphs we had gained might not produce in the mind of a proud and brave nation any thing beyond an amicable and laudable rivalry; at the same time we were bound to recollect that France was our rival, and that one day she might again be our enemy. It was our duty, then to imitate her example, and so to manage our own affairs as to be prepared for any unexpected change. He might easily enlarge on the situation of the Netherlands and other kingdoms, but his object was not unnecessarily to consume time, and if he had communicated to the House the idea he entertained, that the state of our foreign relations was such as to render necessary some arrangement of our affairs at home, what he had said would answer all purposes. There was, however, one foreign power out of pale of confederation; with her we had a separate treaty of peace; towards her we had long cast an eye of jealousy, and it well became us to be prepared for the worst. Let the House consider only what had happened in the last three months. Two British subjects had been executed by an American commander, under very suspicious appearances. There might be circumstances warranting his conduct, and justifying, according to the law of nations, the approbation which his govern ment had expressed; but he was old enough to remember the time when, had two British subjects been executed by a foreign state in time of peace neither the administration nor the people of this country would have put up with it quite so tamely. He knew the subject was a sore one, and did not wish to press it farther; he was far from wishing it to be supposed that he meant to blame ministers for acting so cautiously; in conducting themselves with prudence they had discharged the best duty they could under the circumstances perform. He hoped, however, that he had not done amiss in just noticing the point as bearing on this question-whether Great Britain ought not to be placed in a condition, if necessary, to defend her rights? Next came the subject of territorial aggrandizement, regarding which ministers seemed to feel no concern. While the noble lord opposite was at congress, two German princes could not have exchanged a few meadows without important expresses being dispatched to him. But America owned no congress: because she was a long way off, ministers seemed to think that danger could not be near. She had obtained from Spain, the Floridas, and had thus been allowed to take up a position on a vast continent as inju rious as possible to the colonial returns of this country, putting them in imminent and undeniable jeopardy. It was to be supposed that some representations had`· been made by ministers on the subject; and here again it would be unfair to find fault with their tone and temper, so very very moderate. Nothing certainly could be more absurd, than, at a moment when we could do little, to talk of doing much; it was, however, necessary to advert to this circumstance to show the difference in the conduct of a nation with impaired, and a nation with untouched re- | sources. Let the House and the country reflect then, if it was not the duty of government to do something to prepare the empire for possible mischiefs that might arise even from France and America: its only security was in its preparation; and though it was very difficult to draw the line where wise prudence ended, and abject submission began, yet that point did exist, though he hoped in God Great Britain would never be driven to the extremity of being obliged to find it. It was our first and paramount duty to satisfy all the world that our object was peace; but it was fit, also to satisfy it, that we spoke from the love of peace, not from the dread of war, and our inability to sustain it. Peace procured on other terms was only hostility postponed--postponed under the most disadvantageous circumstances. To enter upon a war with an impaired national character was a great calamity; national character, in truth, was every thing to a people, and we ought always to be prepared to maintain it. In this country he knew of no substantial preparations on which reliance could be placed in the hour of need; it was not an unwieldy military establishment, not colleges for the education of youth in habits merely military, that could be of real service in case of a sudden attack: a wellmanned navy, and a well-filled exchequer, were what Great Britain ought to confide in; then, indeed, her safety would be placed upon a rock which no confederation, no congress could shake: with a fine navy, and flourishing finances, she might set the whole world at defiance. If he had thus far succeeded in making his meaning intelligible, it was unnecessary to dwell farther on this part of the case: if he had impressed upon the House, that the situation of the country with foreign powers made it necessary that no time should be lost in the arrangement of our financial situation, he had how to examine how the internal affairs of the country had been conducted since the peace, and how far the tendency of the system of the ministers was, to strengthen our financial situation. One of the great charges he had to bring against ministers was, that from the hour the treaty of peace was signed, they had entirely neglected every measure to improve the internal situation of the country. He knew of nothing they had attempted, much less accomplished. He (VOL. XL.) would first consider the situation of the trade of the kingdom, on which it was unnecessary that he should dwell, because a reference to the evidence given before the secret committee on the Bank would establish nearly all he wished: the most intelligent merchants had given it as their opinion, not that any particular branch of trade had experienced an interruption, but that there existed a general and unqualified stagnation. One reason for this calamitous state of things perhaps was, that ministers, in all their negotiations with foreign powers, had never thought of any thing in the shape of a commercial treaty; he knew of but one commercial treaty they had effected, and that was with America-a treaty, if it merited the name, which had scattered more dismay among those connected with Newfoundland, than any other that had been entered into in the annals of our history. Certain bounties had, however, been granted to the merchants to prevent their being actual losers, but what was to become of the country at large, seemed to the noble lord and his colleagues a perfect matter of indifference. Thus our only commercial treaty was one by which the nation was most seriously injured. He had a bad memory, and should be glad to be reminded of any other commercial arrangement made by the British government. One opening, indeed, had offered itself, which he had hoped that ministers would have embraced-he alluded to the struggle of a brave and generous people for liberty. Independent of the sympathy which Great Britain, as a free country, must feel in every contest for liberty, independent of the ardour with which she would be inclined to aid the oppressed, it would not have been extraordinary if ministers, merely upon mercantile considerations, had looked towards South America, as a vent for our trade. Yet they had not only done nothing, but they had done worse than nothing. They had done their utmost to prevent the success of those by whose triumphs we might be benefited; for a bill was now depending, calculated to exasperate the whole mass of South Americans, and to destroy every hope of commercial advantage. At the moment when our manufacturers were starving, and when a distant prospect was afforded of alleviation for their distresses, they were deprived even of the consolation of hope, and were told that the government was about to adopt a bill that (21) |
