quence. A practice like this would be attended with the most inconvenient consequences.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he felt all the objections to the question which had been stated. He was sorry that the hon. gentleman should have been misled by a private communication to put the question; and he hoped the hon. gen. tleman would never hereafter consider any article in any newspaper as official. With respect to the paper in question, he could not help saying, that he had seen much in that paper that he entirely disapproved

of.

ILLICIT DISTILLATION IN IRELAND.] The House having resolved itself into a committee on the Irish Illicit Distillation acts,

The Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed a resolution, that leave be given to bring in a bill," to limit the continuance of the operation of the several acts for imposing Fines upon Townlands and places in Ireland, in respect of offences relating to the unlawful distillation of Spirits, and to amend the said acts, and to provide for the more effectual prevention or sup. pression of such offences." He intimated that it was his intention, in the event of his obtaining leave to bring in this bill, to accompany it with several regulations, which would, he trusted, in the interim, obviate many of the objections that had been made to the present mode of preventing illicit distillation in Ireland. It was known that in the barony of Innishowen, where illicit distillation at one time raged, it was effectually extinguished by the energy of an effective police; now his intention was, that wherever this police was established, and effectively acted upon, no townland fines should be levied, and that after the summer of the ensuing year, the effect of the measure should be reviewed. He wished, in the interim, to have a clause in force, giving any county a power to apply to the lord lieutenant to call into action, in the particular district, the townland fine system where it might be deemed necessary. He was also prepared to mitigate the operation of the existing practice, and instead of levying the fine where the head or worm of a still was found concealed, only, to levy it where the machine was found complete. Another mitigation would be, to bar the infliction of fines after three years. In the event of a county calling (VOL. XL.)

in the aid of the police system, it was intended that government should pay onehalf of the expense, and the county the other. With respect to the encouragement of small stills, he thought such a measure could be better introduced in a separate bill. He concluded by moving, "That the chairman be instructed to ask for leave to bring in the said bill."

Sir J. Newport did not rise on the present occasion to oppose this motion. No man was more anxious than he was to protect the innocent and punish the guilty. But he was afraid that the effect of this measure would be to divert from the resources of the country a portion of the revenue of Ireland; and when this result was known, then they would be taunted with the unproductive nature of their revenue, though in fact the defalcation was occasioned by mismanagement. Though he had strong objections to the motion, on account of what he considered would be its effect upon the revenue, yet he had a still greater and more insuperable objection to what he conceived would be its operation upon the morals of the people. The effect of the existing system had been, he thought, in a great degree, to rescue a large portion of the lower classes from the miserable condition into which they had been previously sunk by the practice of illicit distillation. He sincerely hoped his predictions, that a repeal of the existing law would renew the old evil, would not follow. He honestly and fairly thought the proposed measure a bad one, and that it would induce a recurrence of the old evil. Being of this opinion, he would certainly in a future stage oppose the bill.

Mr. Chichester expressed his cordial satisfaction that the attention of ministers had been at length drawn to the abominable operation of the townland fine system in Ireland. He had always been of opinion, that the moment the evils and distresses which that system provoked were fully explained to the House, redress would be inevitably obtained; and the result verified his anticipation. The proposition of the right hon. gentleman was, to substitute another, and a modified measure for that which was now in such oppressive operation. He earnestly hoped the alteration would succeed, and answer every fair purpose. Whether it did or not, no consideration should induce him to countenance a continuance of the townland fine system. Independent of its (2 Q)

notorious inefficiency, he had a fundamental objection to it, which would not be shaken if even the existing system was successful instead of being unavailing this objection was, that it was unconstitutional and unprincipled-it broke down the barriers between the guilty and the innocent, and punished with indiscriminate severity.

Mr. Valentine Blake urged the necessity, in whatever measures were taken, of keeping in full view the necessity of suppressing illicit distillation, which was so fruitful of evil. He did not believe the existing Jaw to be so unjust and improper as it had been represented to be, nor did he hope for much good from the proposed measure.

Sir J. Stewart felt himself bound to go hand in hand with the chancellor of the exchequer, in using every exertion to render his meditated measure available. Nobody doubted the necessity of suppressing illicit distillation; but the consequences of the townland fine system were dreadful, and could no longer be endured. General Hart said, that the operation of the existing system was so oppressive and intolerable in Ireland that no change could be for the worse. In fact, the people would have preferred the terrors of martial-law to the continuance of the townland fine system. It was, indeed, the same thing. The only difference was, that the people were oppressed by disciplined troops in a brown uniform instead of a red; and instead of having, in cases of outrage, the protection of honourable men on courts-martial, they had a court of excise, which he was sorry to say, showed no disposition to mitigate the oppression of the system, and which constituted in itself the separate offices of judge, jury, and executioner. The experiment, as it was called, of the townland fine system, was bad; it failed to produce any thing but indiscriminate oppression wherever it had been tried-look, for instance, at the county of Donegal, where armies of excisemen were let loose upon the people their motive was their rewards, and their rewards were provided by the existing law: fraud, and chicanery, and cunning, were sure to triumph. He had for a considerable period called the attention of the House to the oppression of the existing system in Ireland; he had repeatedly moved for papers with the view of exposing its monstrous effects. His motions were either met with an unseemly refusal, or when carried, their effect re

tarded, he might almost say lost, by the dilatory manner in which the orders of the House had been obeyed. Three separate motions had been in succession made for the production of papers ordered by the House, and it was only when the terror of committal was resorted to that they were found to be forthcoming. He was glad to find the eyes and ears of ministers open to this question; and he was sure, now that they looked at the existing oppression with a serious intention of removing it, they would find the most cordial co-operation, on the part of the gentlemen of Ireland, in suppressing illicit distillation, which, besides being the bane of the morals of the people, withdrew their labours and attention from the cultivation of the soil, which pro tanto subtracted from the wealth of the country, by diminishing the rent of the landlord, and operating injuriously upon the profit of the labourer.

He

Mr. Hutchinson stated, that, as the representative of a city which contained a large body of opulent distillers, whose interests were at stake, he thought, on their part, he had a right to complain of the conduct of his majesty's government on this question. They first displayed a decided hostility to this motion; they then yielded to their opponents, and without notice, or giving any reason for changing sides, took the opposite course; the consequence of which was, from its versatility, very injurious to the interests of the chief distillers of Ireland. begged to guard himself against any idea of being supposed to countenance the means by which the townland fine system was carried into execution in Ireland. No man could suspect him of countenancing arbitrary or oppressive proceedings; but he still thought the chancellor of the exchequer, after his avowal upon the subject, had placed himself in rather a perilous alternative, in submitting to the abandonment of a system which, according to his opinion, had considerably tended to put down illicit distillation in Ireland. A great alarm prevailed respecting the intended measure for the establishment of small stills. He hoped the right hon. gentleman would not overlook the protection and consideration which was due to the existing large distilleries. He hoped that full time would be given to have this bill printed, so as to let the large distillers understand the situation in which they would be placed by the alteration.

The Earl of Lauderdale then moved for a copy of the said paper which was immediately presented by the earl of Liverpool, and is as follows:

REPRESENTATION, agreed upon the 20th day of May, 1819, by the Directors of the Bank of England, and laid before the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

The Directors of the Bank of England, having taken into their most serious consideration the Reports of the secret committees of the two Houses of Parliament, appointed to inquire into the state of the Bank of England, with reference to the expediency of the resumption of cash payments at the period now fixed, have thought it their duty to lay before his majesty's ministers, as early as possible, their sentiments, with regard to the measures suggested by these committees for the approbation of parliament.

In the first place it appears, that, in the view of the committees, the measure of the Bank recommencing cash payments on the 5th of July next, the time prescribed by the existing law, "is utterly impracticable, and would be entirely inefficient, if not ruin

ous."

Secondly, it appears, that the two committees have come to their conclusion at a period, when the outstanding notes of the Bank of England do not much exceed 25,000,000l.; when the price of gold is about 4. 1s. per ounce; and when there is great distress, from the stagnation of commerce, and the fall of prices of imported articles.

It must be obvious to his majesty's ministers, that, as long as such a state of things shall last, or one in any degree similar, without either considerable improvement on one side, or growing worse on the other, the Bank, acting as it does at present, and keeping its issues nearly at the present level, could not venture to return to cash payments, with any probability of benefit to the public, or safety

to the establishment.

The two committees of parliament, apparently actuated by this consideration, have advised, that the Bank shall not open payments in coin for a period of four years, but shall be obliged, from the 1st of May, 1821, to discharge their notes in standard gold bullion at mint price, when demanded in sums not amounting to less than thirty ounces. And, as it appears to the committees expedient, that this return to payments at mint price should be made gradually, they propose, that on the first day of February next, the Bank should pay their notes in bullion, if demanded in sums not less than sixty ounces, at the rate of 4l. Is. an ounce, and from the 1st of October, 1820, to the 1st of May following, at 31.

19s. 6d. an ounce.

If the Directors of the Bank have a true comprehension of the views of the committees in submitting this scheme to parliament, they are obliged to infer, that the object of the

committees is, to secure, at every hazard, and under every possible variation of circum. stances, the return of payments in gold at mint price for bank notes, at the expiration of two years; and that this measure is so to be managed, that the mint price denominations shall ever afterwards be preserved, leaving the market or exchange price of gold to be controlled by the Bank, solely by the amount of their issues of notes.

It farther appears to the Directors, with regard to the final execution of this plan, and the payment of Bank notes in gold at mint price, that discretionary power is to be taken away from the Bank; and that it is merely to regulate its issues, and make purchases of gold, so as to be enabled to answer all possible demands, whenever its treasury shall be again open for the payment of its notes.

Under these impressions, the Directors of the Bank think it right to observe to his majesty's ministers, that being engaged to pay on demand their notes in statutable coin, at the mint price of 37. 17s. 104d. an ounce, they ought to be the last persons who should ob ject to any measure calculated to effect that end; but as it is incumbent on them to consider the effect of any measure to be adopted, as operating upon the general issue of their notes, by which all the private banks are regulated, and of which the whole currency, exclusive of the notes of private bankers, is com posed, they feel themselves obliged, by the new situation in which they have been placed by the Restriction Act of 1797, to bear in mind, not less their duties to the establishment over which they preside, than their duties to the community at large, whose interest in a pecuniary and commercial relation, have in a great degree been confided to their discretion.

The Directors being thus obliged to extend their views, and embrace the interests of the whole community, in their consideration of this measure, cannot but feel a repugnance, however involuntary, to pledge themselves in approbation of a system, which, in their opinion, in all its great tendencies and operations, concerns the country in general more than the immediate interests of the Bank alone.

It is not certainly a part of the regular duty of the Bank, under its original institution, to enter into the general views of policy, by which this great empire is to be governed, in all its commercial and pecuniary transac tions, which exclusively belong to the administration, to parliament, and to the community at large; nor is it the province of the Bank to expound the principles, by which these views ought to be regulated. Its peculiar and appropriate duty is the management of the concerns of the banking establishment, as connected with the payment of the interest of the national debt, the lodgments consigned to its care, and the ordinary advances it has been accustomed to make to government.