which the right hon. gentleman had passed on his right hon. friend, and on all around him. His hon. friends had all stated that the country was at present in such a situation that it could not bear any additional taxation; they said, that they were not against taxation, but that they wished the measure to be postponed. And was there any thing so shocking in this, as to warrant the epithets which had been applied to them by the right hon. gentleman? Mr. Canning thought that in debate there was tolerably fair room to give and to take. Whenever the terms "indecent and atrocious," which had been applied to this proposal, were retracted, then, and not till then, should he retract the epithets which he had applied to the conduct of the gentlemen opposite. Mr. Calcraft went on. He had nothing to do with any other persons expressions. If his right hon. friend thought those epithets applicable to the measure before the House, he had a right to use them. He would briefly state his view of the question. It might perhaps be said, that he was one of those who had goaded the administration on to the present disclosure of the state of the country; but, admitting that he had urged the necessity of an inquiry, where was the pledge on his part, that he would support the measures that might be proposed for meeting the exigencies of the state? They were all agreed in their desire to meet these exigencies; but it was remarkable that not one of the gentlemen opposite had looked to the internal state of the country, to the petitions on their table, or to the distress of which these petitions complained. They only looked to the country as a subject of taxation; but he looked at the state of the people, and must say, that this was not a time for imposing fresh taxes. He had, God knew, no more confidence than his right hon. friend in the present administration; but if by the beginning of nest session, he should find the country in a better situation, he would agree to support the present administration in imposing additional taxes. He repeated, that it was solely on account of the internal state of the country that he opposed the measure at present. And was this a cause for the taunts of the right hon. gentleman? Did he think that his own recent conduct was forgotten? that it was not recollected how he had reprobated the gentlemen by whom he was now surrounded; how he had lampooned the friends on one side of him, and betrayed those on the other? Topics enough occurred to him, which, if followed up, would recall recollections that would make the right hon. gentleman repent his attack. He, indeed, of all persons, to make such an attack!-To charge others with inconsistent, cowardly, and shuffling conduct! He might be a splendid orator, but he showed in this that he had not much judgment. Mr. Macdonald begged the attention of the House for a few moments. Of such members as were in the last parliament, he would ask whether they had not seen ministers at the beginning of the peace sit down without any regular plan of economy? Whether they had not seen them oppose the first motions of retrenchment, and whether they did not seem determined to suffer the country to groan under the heavy pressure of a war establishment in time of peace?-a system with which they would have continued, had they not been deterred from it by the strong voice of the public opinion without doors, and by the honest vigilance of those who strove to give effect to that public opinion within. Those members who had sat in the last session could never forget, what was the kind of retrenchment which ministers had thought fit to recommend. They began by an attempt to cut away from the poor pensioners. They wished to pare away the humble mite of the widow, in order to aid the labouring treasury. But the House had honestly interfered, and prevented this ungenerous and unjust attempt. The poor widow was considered to be the fit object from whose scanty stipend some paltry savings were to be made. She was to suffer because she could only complain; but if it was proposed to remove any of the large incumbrances on the public purse-if it was desired to touch one of those golden baits which were held out for veering politicians-if any of these were proposed to be touched, then it was said, the state would be undone-the public business could not be carried on. The committee divided- Abercromby, hop. J. Althorp, vis. TELLER. Bernal, Ralph Bennet, hon. H. G. Benyon, B. Lloyd, J. M. Mahon, hon. S. Lamb, hon. W. Maberly, John Birch, J. Maberly, W. L. Brand, hon. T. Macleod, Rod. Browne, Dom. Macdonald, J. Brougham, Henry Burdett, sir F. Mackintosh, sir J. Milton, vis, Burrell, hon. P. D. Calvert, N. Martin, J. Mills, George Crawley, Saml. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Tuesday, June 8. STEAM ENGINES.] Mr. M. A. Tay Mildmay, P. St. John lor said, that Steam-engines were at pre Osborne, lord F. Spencer, lord R. hn. C. H. Webbe, Ed. sent so numerous in many places, that the smoke which issued from them clouded the atmosphere, and endangered the lives of his majesty's liege subjects. To prevent these consequences, he wished the legislature to compel them to consume their own smoke. He had made inquiries of those who were best capable of judging whether or not this was practicable, and all the artists whom he had consulted agreed in thinking it might be easily accomplished. All lawyers considered the evil which he was now desirous of remedying as a nuisance, and an indictable offence; and in a late trial before Mr. Justice Bayley, the Court had held it to be incumbent on the defendant to show, that he had used all the means in his power to prevent the nuisance complained of. His motion was, "That a select committee be appointed to inquire how far it may be practicable to compel persons using Steam Engines to erect them in a manner less prejudicial to public health and public comfort." If the motion were agreed to, it was his intention to examine artists on the practicability of the plan which he had in view; and then to move that the report be printed, in order to have it circulated during the recess. Should he succeed in convincing the committee of the benefits that would result from the adoption of his plan, he would, if he lived to see another session, move for leave to bring in a bill to carry the recommendation of the committee into So far as the sense of the House had been ascertained on this subject when the bill of his hon. friend (Mr. Wilberforce) was under discussion, no objection had been made to the principles of the measure; all the objections offered had been against the details. One great argument urged in favour of the measure was, the extent to which illicit commerce in slaves had been carried. He did not place t upon that ground. He did not believe that the laws respecting the slave trade were generally transgressed. Some in stances of violation undoubtedly occurred, but the practice did not generally prevail. The proof adduced to show the extent of illicit trade was, the number of slaves found at one period in some of the islands above the number at a former period. The difference, he was of opinion, had arisen from the superior accuracy of the latter enumeration. A similar increase of numbers, beyond any actual increase of population, was observable in our own census. It had been stated, that 5,700 slaves had been imported into Trinidad in the course of two years. If so many slaves had really been imported, it was impossible but some captures should have been made. He was confirmed in his opinion on this point by the state of others of our colonies. There was the greatest difficulty of introducing slaves into Barbadoes, as it was the great naval station for the West Indies; the island was besides so fully supplied, that there was no inducement for introducing slaves; yet, it was said to have had 9,336 more slaves at one period than it had had two years before. The number, too, of African slaves in the island of Barbadoes, at the latter period, was 5,496; so that, if a real increase of 9,336 had taken place, slaves born in the island must have been imported. Still, he considered it of importance to the character of the West Indies, and to our own character, that there should be a registration of the slaves. Our purity and innocence ought to be placed on record. Viewing the trade in slaves as a blot upon the national character, he could not think that any obstruction should be thrown in the way of the proposed measure. If the House could not annihilate the trade, they ought at least to do all in their power. The plan to be proposed was, that there should be an office in this country, in which duplicates should be lodged of the number of slaves in each colony; that an individual (VOL. XL.) should be appointed for its superintendence; and that power of reference to the duplicates in this office should be given to all parties. On the removal of slaves from one colony to another, eertificates were to be given to that effect, and precautions adopted to prevent abuses of the permission given by the act 46th of the king to slaves to accompany their masters from one colony to another, His bill would be more restricted than the bill of his hon. friend, but the cause was, that the colonial legislatures had made it unnecessary to pass a more extended law. He concluded by moving, That the chairman do ask leave to bring in the bill. Mr. Wilberforce said, that it could not be supposed that he rose to object to the motion. One material part of the bill which he had himself proposed was comprehended in this measure. He could better judge of the details when he should see the bill. One thing he was ready to contend, and he believed it would be conceded to him, that registration was necessary to afford assurance that there was no illicit trade carried on. In vain had we passed the acts against the slave trade, unless we followed it up by measures like the present. He trusted that the French would follow our example. That great and generous nation would not, he trusted, suffer their banners to be polluted by this foul traffic. We were looking forward with earnest expectation to the time when no nation on the face of the earth would afford protection or encouragement to the trade in human beings. But far short of this were we at present. Not less than 50,000 slaves were stated to have been imported to the Havannah in the course of the last two years. The bill which he had introduced made the slave illegally imported free, because he was considered as involuntarily a slave. The hon. gentleman was mistaken if he supposed, that the intention had been to give them nominal freedom without providing for their future protection. But whatever delay might be interposed in giving them freedom, he hoped those emancipated would be really taken care of. He trusted, that every isiand would either have a register, or not be allowed to carry any slave into. it. If this measure should be carried into effect, and be accompanied with the good-will of the colonies, he should rejoice. Mr. R. Gordon warmly remonstrated against the establishment of a new "office (3 R) for carrying the object of the bill into effect. An additional clerk to that third secretary of state's office, which already cost the public 29,000l. a year, would be quite sufficient for the purposes of the measure. Instead of which, it was proposed to create a number of fees, upon each registry, and that the overplus, after paying the new officers, should be carried to the credit of the civil list. Now, after what had recently transpired in the House, he thought that it was too much to establish a new and expensive office, with fresh patronage to the Crown. Mr. Marryat did not mean to oppose the bill, because he thought the registry of slaves would be attended with beneficial results; but he agreed with the hon. member, that there was no necessity for the introduction of a large and expensive establishment in this country to produce ́those good effects. That it was intended to be an expensive one would be seen from the clause which provides that the principal officer in it should not have a seat in the House. The very introduction of the clause showed, that the person to be chosen must be highly respectable. As to the trouble which the establishment of the registry might give in this country, he conceived that if any gentleman in the colonial office, would devote two hours of two days in the week, he would do all that was necessary. Lord Milton agreed, that some decisive step should be taken for the effectual abolition of the slave trade; and if a registry in this country could tend to that great object, it ought to be adopted. This duty was the more imperative upon England, as by many nations on the continent her motives were suspected in this business. Leave was given to bring in the bill. RESOLUTIONS RELATING ΤΟ THE PUBLIC INCOME AND EXPENDITURE.] Mr. Brogden brought up the report of the Resolutions relating to the Public Income and Expenditure. On the question, that the first resolution be agreed to, Mr. Curwen rose. He did not mean to object that some measures for providing for the deficiency of income should be adopted; but he felt great distrust in those which proceeded from the noble lord opposite and his colleagues. He had heard in the commencement of the session, long account from the noble lord of the flourishing state of the country; but he a had since found, that the reverse of the picture was unfortunately true. He could not, therefore, give to the noble lord and his colleagues that credit for the present measure which they claimed. After all the petitions which had poured in from various parts of the country, describing the general distress, could they be ignorant of the real situation of the country? Ought they not to see that this was not a time for laying on new taxes? In fact, the situation of the country was worse at the present moment than when it was paying an income and a malt tax. The wages of labour were reduced one-third in consequence of the decrease in the consumption and value of our manufactures. În the city of Carlisle, there were not less than 4,000 persons who, by the hardest labour of 14 hours per day, could not earn more than 5s. 9d. per week. The situation of many other parts of the country was not much better. Was this, then, the time for the imposition of new taxes? If the country could afford it, he would not be one to object; but the fact was, it was not able to pay those already imposed, as might be seen from the very great difficulty in their collection. The malttax he condemned, as tending to decrease the use of malt liquor, and thereby giving an inducement to the lower orders to resort to the consumption of spirits. By the proposed tax on wool, a material injury would be done to a very important branch of our manufacture. The effect of both would be, to create greater evils in the country than those which they were intended to prevent. Could any man look at the present situation of our revenue, and see the many useless situations which were paid for under the head of its collection, and say that the economy was observed by ministers which the distresses of the nation required? Collectors, with large salaries, and whose duties were performed by deputies, were kept up, in order to support the patronage of government, and the people were pressed to their last farthing to support this unnecessary extravagance. Had a system of economy been commenced at an earlier period, we should have seen a disposition in the country to make the greatest sacrifices. He must once more repeat his decided opposition to the resolutions. Sir H. Parnell contended, in opposition to what had been advanced by the noble lord, that the present resolutions were a perfect departure from the financial system ་ of Mr. Pitt. For if the system of Mr. Pitt had succeeded, we should now have a sinking fund of 21 millions, and a peace establishment supported without the aid of war taxes. In place of this being the case, we had a sinking fund of two millions and seven millions of war taxes. So that it was not to be disputed, that there was a complete financial failure of the sinking fund system. He believed that during the war, the system of expenditure had been carried to greater extent than the exigencies of the war required. Several millions a year were unnecessarily wasted. In the ordnance department, for instance, nine millions had been wasted in works which had never been applied to any use. If the House had not interfered, and repealed the property tax, they would never have seen any of those retrenchments, for which the noble lord took credit. Whether the reductions could be carried farther was a question, that admitted of no difficulty. Without the sacrifice of a considerable degree of the patronage of the Crown, it was vain to expect any farther reduction; but the state of the country required a more extensive sacrifice of patronage, and a greater innovation in the whole system of carrying on the government, than might have been justifiable under other circumstances. If we persisted in adhering to all the old forms, it was absurd to suppose that any considerable degree of retrenchment could take place. In the collection of the revenue there was great room for improve ment. With respect to the different public offices, there was hardly any one branch of any one department which was not faulty, in the manner in which accounts were kept. The mercantile system was no where in use; the consequence was, great delay and great inequality, and many more clerks being employed, and much more expense incurred than otherwise would be necessary. There was the most complete evidence of this in the 5th report in 1810. The forms of office, too, were tedious and expensive. In the Customs, a man was occupied a day with what ought not to occupy an hour. The laws regulating the collection of the revenue were full of inconsistencies and minute arrangements, which gave rise to much difficulty and expense; and this was particularly the case with respect to those parts of them which related to protecting duties, bounties and drawbacks. The various boards, too, would admit of great reform; for a much smaller number of com. missioners and boards might be sufficient. There were no less than 64 commissioners in the several boards of England, Ireland, and Scotland for collecting the ordinary revenue. The principle of consolidation of boards might be carried into effect with great benefit to the public service. Why might not Ireland and Scotland be placed under the superintendence of the boards here, just as well as the whole superintendence of the revenue was placed under one board of treasury? He believed this would not only be more economical, but, from the superior manner in which business was conducted here, of great advantage in other respects. If they were to look also to what they were voting and paying every year for the proper application of the public money, they would also find great room for retrenchment. The treasury board alone cost 90,000l. It appeared from the report already alluded to, that the exchequer forms were useless and inconvenient; that accounts were kept in a character difficult to understand, and by which the operation of summing them was impossible. It was an abridgment of old Latin. There was no character to express a million, and it was wholly unintelligible except to a few clerks, till translated by others. This was in itself a source of useless expense. In the public departments of the navy, army, and ordnance, there was great room for retrenchment. In many departments the salary was as high now as in the war. From the confused manner in which accounts were kept, the audit of them became necessarily expensive-the audit office cost the country 53,000l. a year. The sum of 1,200,000l. was paid merely in order to take care of the public money after it came into the exchequer. If the right hon. gentleman had been sincerely actuated by the spirit of the last resolution proposed by him, he would soon be able to effect a considerable reduction in our expenditure. Another branch of the expenditure which admitted of considerable reduction was, the civil government of the country. The foreign department cost 63,000l. The home department cost 32,000l. a year. The colonial department 28,000. The privy council 27,000l. The expenses of the lord lieutenant of Ireland 100,000l., making in all 250,000l. a year. From his knowledge of Ireland, he would say, that the executive government of that country might be car |