instead of a postponement of payments, and expenditure, as detailed in the baan acceleration of them was the conse-lance-sheet, the truth must be ascertained. quence. Without any increase of actual He was certainly aware, that in a series of expense, therefore, larger payments were years, the cash account could not be made than, under different circumstances, larger than the sums in the Appropriation would have been made, between the 1st acts; but still the best way, in his opinion, of January, 1826, and the 1st of January, was to ascertain by the balance-sheet, 1827. The figures which had been read which was a test more within compass; by his right hon. friend near him were the whereas any inference from the Approbest criterion of the actual expenditure of priation acts, in consequence of their exa single year; and not the paper to which tent, must be less conclusive. the hon. member for Aberdeen adverted, which was a cash account; and the cash accounts would not afford a just notion of the expense, unless taken for a succession of years. He repeated, that it was strange the hon. gentleman should have fallen into this mistake after the clear explanation of the chancellor of the Exchequer.

The resolution was agreed to. On the resolution, "That 111,6551. be granted for defraying the charge of the Allowances to the principal Officers of the several Departments in Great Britain and Ireland, their Deputies, Clerks, and contingent Expenses, for the year 1827,"

Mr. Hume observed, that on reading the items of this branch of expenditure, and comparing them with those of former years, it appeared to him that every thing was not going on right. Among other

paid to individuals superannuated from the noble lord's own office. The House would do well to inquire in what manner these retirements and superannuations took place. Was the head of an office to turn out whom he pleased, and make room for whom he pleased, without caring to what extent the public were burthened by the operation? He should be glad to hear from the noble lord on what ground the Deputy-secretary at War had retired since last year. What was the amount of his retiring pension; and on what principle was it granted?

Colonel Davies observed, that there ought to be some explanatory appendix to the papers, to show what the fact was, and to prevent the occurrence of errors. Mr. Maberly observed, that if he un-charges, there was the sum of 20,0007. derstood the hon. Secretary rightly, the balance-sheet, from which his hon. friend had read, was only a cash account, showing the receipts and payments that had taken place at the Exchequer; and that it ought not to be dealt with as an accurate account of the expenditure, because it might contain under the head of disbursements larger sums than parliament had voted for the year. But how did the chancellor of the Exchequer make his annual statements but from this balancesheet? In fact, any other account was delusive, because this was the cash account. They all knew what difficulty there had been to procure the introduction of this balance-sheet. Even now the balance-sheet was not what it ought to be. In some respects it was unintelligible. It purported to be an account of the receipt and expenditure at the Exchequer; whereas it contained a number of details respecting the funded and unfunded debt. These were things which ought to be separated. If government advanced a large sum, only a part of which was repaid, that merely made a difference in our debt, and had nothing to do with the receipt and expenditure. On examining this balancesheet it appeared, that, instead of a balance in our favour of 1,700,000l., there was a deficiency of 4,500,000l. It was therefore inexpedient that the House should depend on the estimates. They might or might not be correct. But by the receipt

Lord Palmerston said, that when the hon. gentleman compared the expense of this branch of service with its expense in former years, it would be well if he would also look at its increased efficiency, and at the superior despatch and accuracy with which the business to which it related was performed. A great part of the expense was not optional, but resulted from the increased demands made by parliament for information on military subjects. Nevertheless, considerable reduction had taken place. In 1814, the annual charge for the Public Departments was 253,000l.; at present, in consequence of the reductions to which he had adverted, it was only 111,655l. In answer to the hon. gentleman's questions, he would merely observe, that when a department, which had been raised to a large establishment in consequence of a large increase of business, was reduced

At present he admitted that the charge of Deputy-secretary was apparently a heavy one; but in the course of time-in the course of the next ten years for instance— there would be found to be a considerable saving to the country in this particular item of charge in the military estimates.

Mr. Hume thought, notwithstanding the explanation given by the noble lord, that the charge of Deputy-secretary to the country was extravagant, There was a retiring salary of 1,800l. to Mr. Moore, to Mr. Merry 2,500l., to the present Deputysecretary 2,000l., so that the charge to the country for the situation of Deputysecretary for the War Department was above 6,000l. The length of service of the late Deputy-secretary he was prepared to admit; but he understood that that gentleman was as fit to discharge his duties now as he was twenty years ago.

He

in consequence of a reduction of business, it was impossible to dismiss persons who had served long and faithfully without some provision. That provision was regulated by a scale of allowance pointed out in an act of parliament. Of course, when a reduction became necessary, it must be left to the head of each department to select the individuals, who, in his opinion, might best be spared from his office. If that confidence could not be reposed in the head of an office, he was not fit for his situation. He must select those who could be spared with the least inconvenience to the public service. His duty then was, to report their names and services to the Treasury, by whom, and not by him, their retiring allowances were fixed. In the course of this and the last year, having wound up the arrears of his office, he had been enabled to dispense with twenty-two appointments. With re-should be glad to know whether the retirespect to the late Deputy-secretary of War, ment of the late Deputy-secretary was a he had served very nearly half a century. voluntary resignation, or whether it was in Next year he would have completed that consequence of a suggestion to him to reterm. A more assiduous and excellent sign his office. public servant never existed. By the provisions of the act of parliament, the Treasury were empowered, if an individual had served fifty years, and there were other grounds for the proceeding, to grant him a retiring pension, equivalent to his salary; and the individual in question, by his age and his services, was fully qualified aud entitled to enjoy the advantage. By the existing arrangement, he would have been entitled to the full salary at the end of fifty years' service; but a discretionary power was vested in the Lords of the Treasury to apportion a remuneration proportionate to the services of the officer. Accordingly, he had no hesitation in recommending the claims of the late Deputysecretary to the Lords of the Treasury, whose merits and whose services entitled him to the most favourable consideration. Upon the falling-in of the late Deputy-secretary's situation, it had been determined to reduce the salary of his successor to 2,000l. a year. By this arrangement 5001. a year was saved to the public. Then with respect to the principal clerk, whose salary had been 1,2001. a year; he would have been shortly entitled to a retiring salary; but by being placed in the situation of Deputy-secretary, the salary was saved to the public, and also the superannuated pension, to which he would have been otherwise entitled.

Lord Palmerston said, that the resignation of that gentleman was certainly a spontaneous one on his part. He had made the application to him (lord P.), and, in consideration of his merits and services, he had no hesitation in favourably recommending that application to the Lords of the Treasury. It was true that Mr. Merry had not been half a century in the particular situation from which he retired; but it was due to that gentleman to say, that on the retirement from the office of Mr. Moore in 1809, Mr. Merry sustained, and sustained voluntarily, a loss of 8007. ayear,which was to have accrued to him from a contract into which he had entered for certain supplies to the garrison of Gibraltar. Such a surrender on his part was deserving of the most favourable consideration, and gave Mr. Merry a claim to any indulgence that might be shown him; although, in his instance, the allowance that had been awarded to him was more a matter of right than of indulgence,

Mr. Hume was astonished, after it had been admitted that Mr. Merry had entered when not of age, and had not served the full time, that he should have been allowed to retire on the full pension. Instead of any serious attempt being made to reduce our establishments, there appeared to be a desire to increase them. Since 1822, the civil establishment particularly had gone

on increasing. In 1822 it was 329,000Z.; | ment of thirty-eight or forty officers. The this year it amounted to 425,000l. So education which officers of the army rethat not only the military dead weight, ceived was found to be extensively benefibut the civil dead weight, had been gra- cial. Many officers who had been edudually increasing. He thought it was the cated there, and who were afterwards duty of the House to institute a strict in- scattered in different parts of the world, quiry into the cause of this increase, and took surveys of the places in which they to call upon government to redeem the had been, and supplied, in this and in pledge which they had given to make re- other ways, a variety of valuable informatrenchments. tion. Then, as to staff duties, the im

Mr. Herries contended, that the act re-provements which had been effected ferred to by his noble friend fully authorised that exercise of discretion in special cases, which had been exercised in the case of Mr. Merry. He could assure the House that matters regarding retired allowances were not lightly disposed of at the TreaThe certificates were examined, and the claims were investigated, with the utmost strictness.

sury.

through the Military College were very important. It was not long ago that an officer belonging to the Austrian army, was employed to give instruction in staff duties. Of late, however, it was found that foreign instruction could be altogether dispensed with; and he was happy to be enabled to state, that the Military College had furnished to the service three quarterMr. Hume understood that twenty-two masters general. It was unfair, therefore, clerks had been reduced in the establish- in the hon. member to select the mere apment of the noble lord last year. He pointments which had taken place from wished to know whether any new appoint-the college within the last year, and to ments of clerks had taken place since that reduction.

Lord Palmerston answered--none.
The resolution was agreed to.

On the resolution, "That 13,2291. be granted, for defraying the charge of the Royal Military College, for the year 1827," Mr. Hume observed, that, from the Estimates it appeared, that there was a charge for two hundred and sixteen cadets. He wished to know how many of these cadets had been appointed to commissions?

Lord Palmerston replied, that sixteen cadets had been appointed without purchase, and twenty-two by purchase.

Mr. Hume, then it appears, that the country is saddled with a charge of 13,2297. for the supply of thirty-eight cadets to the army.

It

state, that those appointments, independent of other advantages, formed the only beneficial result that accrued from the grant to the college. The young gentlemen were instructed in all the branches of education necessary to qualify them for the profession to which they were destined. seemed as if those who objected to this grant were disposed to fix the proportion of ignorance rather than of knowledge that ought to prevail in the army; and to measure its value not by its improvement, but by its deterioration.

Mr. Hume admitted that the officers of the army ought to be well educated, but not at the expense of the public. The charge for the staff of the college was no less than 6,000l.; while 7,000l. more were annually paid for nurses and other atSir H. Hardinge said, that the number tendants. Arithmetic, French, Geograof military students was more than three-phy, and the classics, were, no doubt, imfold the number who obtained situations from the college. The fact was, that those who were appointed from the college underwent a very severe examination, as a test of superior qualification. Those who did not obtain situations from the college, had all the facility which their family connexion and resources might give them to obtain commissions, and the service was benefited by the advantages of the education which they received at the college.

portant branches of education; but, surely, it was not necessary to keep up a distinct college for teaching matters which were to be learned in every grammar school of the kingdom. Yet, these heavy charges were made as if the students came, in forma pauperis, to be educated from the first rudiments of knowledge. He did not apply this remark to fortification and military drawing, because they were not always taught elsewhere; but he thought Sir Alexander Hope said, that the bene-masters for landscape-painting and expefits arising from the Military College were rimental philosophy not absolutely requinot confined to the mere annual appoint- site for a young cadet. Independent of

twenty-three professors paid by the public, there were five clerks, nineteen men servants, a housekeeper and nurses, at an expense of 13,000l. a-year for the education of thirty-eight boys.

Lord Palmerston produced a return of the number of students admitted into the Military College, since its first establishment in 1802. The total number was two thousand nine hundred and twentyeight; of which one thousand three hundred and twenty had received commissions in the king's service, and one hundred and twenty in that of the East India company. The complete defence furnished by his gallant friend rendered it needless for him to say another word regarding the public utility of the establishment.

Mr. Monck observed, that the only question was, whether the education of these boys ought to be paid for out of the taxes. Ought the people to be taxed for the purpose of teaching those who would be quite as well, if not better, taught at the expense of their friends and relations? Let the examination, before appointment, still continue as severe as it ought to be, parents would be very glad to qualify their sons for it, in the expectation of the reward of a cadetship. Why was it necessary for the country to educate its officers any more than its physicians, its lawyers, or its divines?

sary for the staff officers of such an establishment-a school for a few boys. He could never consent to this throwing away of the public money, and would move as an amendment, "That the sum of 9,000l. be substituted for 13,2291.”

The Committee divided: For the amendment 29; against it 107. After some further conversation, the several resolutions were agreed to.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Tuesday, February 20.

CANADA CLERGY RESERVES.] Mr. Wilmot Horton moved for leave to bring in a bill to authorise the Sale of Clergy Reserves in Upper and Lower Canada. The object of the measure was, he said, to enable the corporative of the clergy in Canada to dispose, by private contract, of the lands reserved for the clergy in 1791; with respect to which it was originally arranged that they were to be disposed of to the Canada Company. By alienating a part of the provision appropriated to the clergy by the Canada act of 1791, the value of the remaining portion would be improved, and the country relieved from the expense annually voted for the supply of the Protestant Clergy in that part of the world.

Mr. Stanley supported the motion. The Sir A. Hope said, he thought the cadets short acquaintance he had recently had ought to be educated at the public ex-with the provinces of Canada enabled him pense, because the public called upon the to state, that whatever might be the difparents and friends of those young men to ferences of political and party feeling in devote them to the service of the country; that country-and there was no place and because those young men, abandoning where party feeling ran higher-no person the comforts of a private life, or lucrative entertained a difference of opinion as to professions, were bound, by the pledge of the pernicious tendency of the Clergy their parents, to undergo the hardships of Reserves. When Mr. Pitt brought forthe military profession, and to brave the ward the Canada bill in 1791, he distinctly horrors of various climates. specified, that the arrangement then made must be subject to such modifications as might afterwards be deemed expedient. The experience of thirty-five years had demonstrated not only the inconvenience, but the absolute mischief, which resulted from that arrangement. The appropriation of Clergy Reserves in Canada had operated as a serious obstacle to agricultural improvement. The making of roads, an object of so much importance to the colony, was checked by this arrangement; for, as every man was obliged to make filled up. roads through his own estate, where these Mr. Hume said, that no man could con- reserves occurred, the progress of roadscientiously say, that 6,000l. was neces-making was either arrested, or the burthen

Sir E. Carrington, in answer to the latter part of the speech of the hon. member for Reading, observed, that, by the munificence of prelates, of statesmen, and of princes, the means of adequate education had, from the most remote periods of our history, been supplied to the professions of law, physic, and divinity. No such provision had been made for military education, until this establishment was created, and by that institution a chasm had been honourably and most properly

the owner of the contiguous

thrown upon land.

wished the House to be aware of the state in which the church of England stood in Mr. Hume expressed his satisfaction at Canada; for he was persuaded there was the measure proposed by the hon. Secre- not a man of common sense in the country, tary. Nothing tended more to check the who would not say, that, instead of proprogress of improvement in Canada, than moting the interests of the church of Engthe allotment of land to the clergy. He land, by making a provision for it in should be glad to know the details of the Canada, we were placing it in a position new arrangement made between his ma- to be scouted by that legislative assembly, jesty's government and the Canada com- of which two members only belonged to pany. He trusted also, that these reserved that church, one of those members being lands would be disposed of by some public his majesty's Attorney-general. With mode of purchase, so as to enable the respect to the arrangement for disposing proprietors of the adjoining lands to be- of the church Reserves, he entirely concome purchasers. By these means, im-curred in the expediency of that measure. provements in the cultivation of land, and in the making of roads, would be more rapidly carried on.

Mr. W. Horton observed, that measures would be taken to make it imperative on the clergy to co-operate in the making of roads, and in carrying other improvements into effect. The lands in question were the property of the church of England, as secured to that church by the Canada act of 1791.

Mr. Baring said, he entertained strong objections to the appropriation of land in Canada specifically to the church of England; not because he objected to the church of England, for he was as zealous a member of that church as any gentleman in that House, but because he was anxious that the House should not sow the seeds of that very dissention which we now so lamentably deplored in Ireland. If we could contrive some means to make all the people of Canada church of England men, he should have no objection to such an expedient; but if the fact were, that the church of England had taken but slight root in Canada, and that the mass of Protestant Christians in that country were of different persuasions, by appropriating money and land to the church of England in Canada, we should be laying a foundation for future dissention, and for the separation of the colony from the mother country. The Attorney-general for Upper Canada had been examined on the subject of these church Reserves; and, in answer to a question, as to how many members of the legislative assembly in Upper Canada were church of England men, his answer

Mr. W. Horton observed, in explanation, that whether the distribution of lands to which the hon. member alluded, was right or wrong, it was done under the express authority of, and in obedience to, the provisions of the Canada Act, and could not, therefore now be called in question. All they proposed to do at present was, to dispose of a certain portion of those lands, in order that they might render the remainder more productive. With respect to what had fallen from an hon. member upon the subject of the expense of emigration, he begged to observe, that there were many parishes in England most willing to pay half the expense of the removal of their paupers in that way, without any hope of being repaid.

Mr. Warburton thought, that in these times, it would have been better to make appropriations of land for the diffusion of education, rather than for the support of the church. The act of parliament reserved one-seventh part of the lands for the maintenance of the established church; but he wished to know whether it was not the intention of government to dispose of the produce of some of those lands, to educate the poor emigrants they were about to convey to Canada. It was not too late to revise the act; and he would most earnestly recommend them to do so, as well as to adopt some measures with respect to the importation of Canada corn. He would remind them of the expressions used by a great philosopher, a great political economist, and the founder of a great empire, the celebrated Dr. Franklin, in his interviews with a noble lord. That great two, he being one of the two." Now, man, in speaking of the colonists, observed, he did not know of how many members" That if they were to sow and to reap, the legislative assembly consisted; but it and yet not be allowed to ship, the sooner could scarcely be a number of which two the government of this country sent out formed any considerable portion. He transports to bring the people home again,

was