of which he highly approved; and he thought it would be a disgrace to that House not to act up to the spirit of it, or to permit any foreign state to usurp an authority over another independent kingdom. Having said thus much regarding Spain, he must now say a word in reference to Naples. It was four years since the troops of France had entered Spain; but the Austrians had been six years in possession of Naples. In the latter case, as in the former, promises had been repeatedly made, and as repeatedly broken. There was yet no appearance of their departure. The inhabitants were kept in a state of the most abject subserviency by the invaders. There was actually an order in existence, authorizing any Austrian soldier to punish the slightest appearance of offence or provocation, either by word or gesture, by the infliction of one hundred blows. It was true the Neapolitans merited this treatment by their submission; but did it become this country to permit it? -With regard to another subject, it was impossible to reflect without shame and remorse upon the policy pursued towards a country not only endeared by the memory of the sages and great men whom it had produced, but rendered valuable and important by its maritime position. The Egyptian was suffered to overrun this region, to devastate its territory, and to extirpate its population. The sovereign of that nation had shown himself a man of extraordinary endowments, combined with great ferocity of disposition. In Egypt 30,000 Arabs and Nubians were organized by means of French officers, and brought into as high a state of discipline as our East Indian sepoys. But we had our Foreign Enlistment act, and while the French went in shoals to the enemies of the Greeks, we would not allow our officers to go to their assistance. This was disgraceful and shameful conduct in us, towards a people which ought, for so many reasons, to be dear to us. This was our conduct to them, when we saw the utmost efforts used by the Porte and by the pacha of Egypt, for four years, to exterminate with the assistance of other European nations, the manhood of Greece, and to carry off the women and children as slaves. The present Sultan of the Sublime Porte had exhibited the utmost energy and vigour, in carrying into effect his measures for the organization of his troops. He had shown himself a man of great ability Now and cunning, and knew well how to cover the lion's heart under the fox's skin. He had lately concluded a disadvantageous treaty with Russia; but, could any one think that a man who had proved himself capable of doing as much as the Ottoman sovereign had done, was not, whilst he was drinking the cup of humiliation to the dregs, sweetening it with anticipated revenge. Let the millions which this sovereign had at his disposal be once organized, and, much as he estimated the power of Russia, he would say, that he considered the Ottoman power would be the more formidable power of the two. The right hon. gentleman need say nothing more to the pacha of Egypt than this"You must not put a ship to sea for the purpose of carrying warlike stores to Greece." That prohibition would be quite sufficient to enable the Greeks to master the Turkish power in Greece. If the Greeks could not effect that, they were not worthy of liberty. He could see no objection to the interference of this country between Greece and the Pacha of Egypt, who carried Greek women into slavery. The principle upon which this country attacked Algiers was, the carrying Europeans into slavery. was the time, or never. Every assistance ought to be given by our government to the Greeks; and then that people would achieve their independence if the right hon. gentleman could persuade his colleagues to change their policy with respect to that country. In America, the right hon. gentleman was hailed as the benefactor of the South American States. In Europe, he was extolled as the severer of the Holy Alliance. But the right hon. gentleman ought to go still further, and use his utmost endeavours for the liberation of Greece. Let the right hon. gentleman do this, and he would secure for himself an imperishable wreath of fame, grounded on the gratitude of mankind, and the best feelings of human nature. Though last, not least, let his Majesty's ministers consolidate the interests of the empire at home: let them secure it against foreign invasions and internal machinations, by granting as a boon to Ireland, a measure which, if long delayed, must be ultimately wrested by such violence as might not only rend this mighty empire in twain, but would, he firmly believed, break it into fragments, which could never be reunited. 89 Mr. Henry Grattan, member for Dub- self to vote for the one indemnity, since lin, said, that he should betray the duty the other had not been introduced. Even which he owed to his sovereign, to his when Ireland had manifested the best discountry, and to the solemn oath of fidelity position, and had shown the best conduct, which he had taken at that table, if he the troops had not been withdrawn; because it was felt, that without emancipaConciliation were to remain silent on the present occasion. He had been most anxious to find tion Ireland was not secure. reason to agree with the Address; but he and emancipation were the only sure means was sorry to say that he could find no such of giving permanent peace to Ireland. reason. He could not agree to it; and yet, Let government adopt those means, and if ministers had introduced into it one sin- they might safely withdraw their troops. gle sentence, which ought to have been But, unfortunately, the mover and sethere, they would have had many addi- conder of the Address could not agree tional votes in their favour. When the among themselves; one of them thinking 'House considered the communications that the subject of Ireland ought to be The which they had from Ireland, it was doubly introduced into the Speech, the other their duty to take care that all mention of thinking that it ought to be omitted. that country should not be excluded from seconder of the Address had said, that if the Address. A certain confidential pub- the measure of conciliation towards Irelic functionary, who had lately arrived from land had been mentioned, it would have Ireland, and who must be well acquainted received his most anxious-here he had with the situation of that country, had hesitated, as if he had meant to say "supstated, that the great evil of Ireland, and port"--but he had at length said- conespecially of Dublin, was poverty-a po-sideration." But on this part of the subverty which might be banished, if the peo-ject, the hon. seconder's Speech had, in ple of Ireland were put into such a situa- one respect, reached the very climax of tion, that they could enjoy the benefit of eloquence; for, instead of all the most imBritish enterprise, British industry, and portant topics which he might have introBritish capital; but that they could not duced into his Speech with reference to enjoy without the adoption of such mea- Ireland, he had mentioned one, and that sures as would ensure conciliation and was the subject of potatoes. An Eastern between the two countries. All this king was once very ill, and sent for his peace would be effected, if only one single mea-physician; the physician happened to be an Irishman, and undertook to cure his So the sure were adopted. He had that day seen the crown on the king's head, and he majesty by means of potatoes. thought that Ireland was the brightest gem hon. seconder thought that every thing was to be done for Ireland by means of of the diadem, and that the brightest measure the sovereign could adopt would be potatoes: and he assured the hon. genCatholic emancipation. At present go-tleman, that potatoes were a sound and vernment was forced to keep a large army good root, and articles which would grow in Ireland; and such was the situation of in the precincts of the Horse-guards and that country, that the inhabitants could the Palace as readily as in Ireland. It not sit down in safety by their own fire was a base calumny to say, that the peosides; and yet, while the ministers re- ple of Ireland in general were ill affected quired from them allegiance to the king, to the government, they were generally well they would not, in return, afford them de- affected to the government, and only asked fence and security. He had documents for that which, by the laws of God and nain his hands, which showed that in the ture, was their due, and ought to be granted speeches from the throne, in the sessions them: and he hoped the people of Engof 1822, 1823, 1824, 1825, and 1826, land would not think the worse of them Ireland had been prominently mentioned: for not being so lost to a sense of the and yet, although mentioned at the close value of their institutions, as not to desire of the last parliament, the subject was al- an equal share in them. Equal rights and together omitted in the present royal equal privileges, were what they required; Speech. The ministers had asked indemnity and with less they ought not to be satisfor having permitted the importation of fied. They asked no change with refercorn. Why did they not ask for indem-ence to religious institutions: all they nity for not having given peace to Ireland? asked was, to be exempted from civil and For his part he could not easily bring him- political disabilities, merely on account of the prosperity of Ireland was vitally connected with the prosperity of England. This opinion had been demonstrated by experience. In the same proportion as the great interests of England had advanced, so had those of Ireland. When the agriculture and manufactures of this country were flourishing, both those inter their own religion, and to share in the advantages of the constitution, equally with their Protestant fellow-subjects. This was nothing more than bare justice, and could not be resisted except upon a principle of exclusion. Had it not been for the amendment proposed by the hon. member for Montrose, he would himself have proposed an amendment to the Ad-ests were thriving in Ireland. Nor did he dress, alluding to the present situation of Ireland. He begged to remind the House of the words of one of the greatest men this country had ever produced. He meant lord Chatham; and he could not help expressing a hope, that gentlemen who held that great man's son in veneration would extend their admiration from the son to the father. Lord Chatham, speaking of Ireland, had said, "Whenever the safety of Ireland is at stake, the question is no longer a point of honour, but becomes a contention for our very existence." It was in vain to attempt to evade the question of the state of Ireland. The subject would be forced, over and over again, on the attention of the House. He should have felt that he had deserted his duty if he had not stated his sentiments on this subject; for the danger was increasing every day. He begged leave to say, in conclusion, that it was but fair and just, that if Ireland gave to England her blood and her money, that England should give to her what, he thought, she was entitled to, and what, he trusted, the good sense of parliament would ultimately grant; namely, equal rights and equal privileges. Mr. Winn, in explanation, said, that whatever measures would tend to promote the interests of Ireland, and of the noble race of men by whom that fine country was peopled, would always receive his cordial support, if he were convinced that those measures could be carried into execution with safety to the church and state. Mr. Moore, member for Dublin, was of opinion, that the diversity of sentiments which had been expressed in the course of the debate, had arisen from the absence of several topics from the King's Speech, which, in the judgment of different members, ought to have been introduced into it. He himself thought, that the state of Ireland had been sufficiently adverted to, in the present stage of parliamentary proceedings. On that subject he had never had but one opinion, and that was, that think that there was any ground for the imputation, that the distresses of Ireland had been overlooked. In the passage in which his Majesty alluded to "the depression under which the trade and manufactures of the country had been labouring," his Majesty must be understood expressly to speak of the distress in Ireland as much as of that in England. He would have preferred that evening to have cautiously abstained from any reference to the Catholic claims; but he felt compelled to touch upon the subject, in order to disabuse the House of the impression, that the sentiments uttered that evening by the hon. member for Louth, and by his hon. colleague, expressed the unanimous feelings of the people of Ireland. For his own part, he felt that, in common with every British subject, they were entitled to equal rights on giving equal securities. It was only by adhering to that condition, that parliament could really promote the civil and religious liberties of the empire. He was convinced that that portion of the Irish constituency who were opposed to what was improperly called Catholic emancipation, were actuated by the truest and most genuine conception of the principles of the British constitution. It was an erroneous expression, to call the concession of the demands set up by the Catholics, an act of Justice towards Ireland. Ireland was not an independent kingdom, having a right to make terms for her own advantage, but an integral portion of the British empire, and therefore entitled to share the blessings of the British constitution; but he could assure the House, that the prevailing sentiments of the most influential portion of the constituency of Ireland were, that the best justice that could be rendered to that country, would be to secure to it the strict and inviolable maintenance of the essential principles of the Protestant establishment, which he sincerely believed were the safest bulwarks and the strongest defence of the British constitution. Sir Joseph Yorke regretted that the King's Speech had not been more clearly and strongly expressed. After eleven years of peace, he confessed he saw none of those earnests of economy, which he would have been glad to have witnessed. A right hon. gentleman, during the last session, had brought up a flaming report from the commissioners of inquiry, which blew the whole Stamp-office to-he would not say where, yet, what had been the result? The members of the Stamp board who were dismissed were immediately replaced by others, and four or five of the dismissed parties had had pensions given to them. That was the way in which economical reductions were made, for the good of the public! The great burthen resulted from the number of persons to be paid for their services behind the scenes. In the case of the Stamp board, it appeared that not above three of the commissioners had been in the habit of attending; yet, when dismissed, they were rewarded for their negligence by pensions. He did not find fault with the extent of our military establishment. He believed that the civility lately shewn abroad to the right hon. Secretary, arose altogether from his having the sword in his hand. Mr. Richard Martin was sorry that the condition of the Catholics of Ireland had not been mentioned in the Speech from the throne. If his hon. friend, the member for Dublin, would propose the amendment to which he had alluded, he would give it his cordial support. Mr. Calcraft said, that though he agreed with the hon. member for Aberdeen in the opinion which he had expressed, with respect to many of the topics alluded to in his amendment, yet he could not, without an opportunity for more ample discussion, give his support to that amendment. No one had expressed the slightest objection to the Address which had been moved, but the hon. member proposed to tack to it an amendment, coupled with a speech, full of the most important considerations, and the House was called upon, in a new parliament, many of the members, probably, never having had an opportunity of considering many of the topics which had been brought before them, to vote for this amendment, which he really believed was longer than the long speech by which it was introduced. For his own part, he generally voted against ministers on all questions of economy, such as the retrenchment of taxes, and the reduction of the army; and he would even go the length of saying, that he considered the Corn-laws, as they at present stood, to be injurious, and was ready to vote for an alteration of the system. He thought that 86,000 men were an enormous force for a peace establishment under any point of view; but, until he saw some system of government adopted in Ireland, which would give tranquillity to that country, he believed, melancholy as was the admission, that a force of that amount must be maintained, in order to preserve the peace of the empire. It was not his fault that the system under which Ireland was governed had not been altered; but if the present House of Commons should persist in the course which former parliaments had pursued, he must confess he thought that our present large military force could not be diminished. It was also necessary to consider many other important topics in relation to the question of reducing the army; such for instance, as our colonial system in all its branches, and our foreign relations. Agreeing, therefore, with many, of the topics contained in the amendment, he, nevertheless, could not pledge himself to support them in detail, without a more ample examination, both of them, and of the objects of the hon. mover, than he had now the opportunity of entering upon. Resting upon his character with the public, and not fearing to have it thrown in his teeth that he was no longer the friend of retrenchment and economy, he would take the course by which he would be least fettered in the forthcoming discussions, and vote for the Address to which there was no objection, rather than for the amendment, by which he should pledge himself as to points which he had not yet had time distinctly to consider and decide upon. Sir R. Fergusson would vote for the amendment, because, as he conceived, it did not pledge the House to any opinion with respect to the topics introduced into it, but merely to take them into consideration. The House then divided: For Mr. Hume's amendment 24. For the original address 107. Majority 83. Thomson, J. P. Fergusson, sir R. Grattan, J. Harvey, D. W. Hobhouse, J. C. Maberly, J. Marshall, J. Marshall, W. Monck, J. B. Philips, G. Williams, J. TELLERS. Hume, J. : Mr. Henry Grattan then moved, that the following words be added to the Address:"That this House desires to express to his Majesty their deep regret at the present state of Ireland, and to assure his Majesty of their determination to direct their attention towards that subject, with a view to the redress of the grievances under which his Majesty's subjects there labour: -That this House will apply their most serious attention to the investigation of the estimates which may be laid before them; and will take the most effectual measures for reducing the expenditure of the country in all its branches, civil and military, to the lowest scale consistent with the good government and the honour of the nation." On the question, that these words be added to the Address, the House divided: Ayes 58. Noes 135. The original Address was then put and agreed to. which were now allotted to the Irish members, would no longer be filled with the representatives of the landed and commercial interests of that part of the empire but with the representatives of the popish priesthood. The petition which he now held in his hand was but from a small number of his Majesty's subjects; but it was from a whole parish, which, though little in extent, was large in loyalty and attachment to the constitution, and in abhorrence of popery; and consisted of intelligent and respectable inhabitants, deprecating the evils that must infallibly arise from an admission of the Roman Catholics to temporal power in the state. Earnestly did he hope to see the example of this petition followed by every county, town, and parish, in the empire: thus, as the streamlet quickly became a stream, enlarging until it covered a vast expanse, so might the petition be followed by others, multiplying as they arose, so as wholly to extinguish every hope of Catholic emancipation. If any man had had any doubts of the ulterior views of the Roman Catholics, those doubts must now be removed by the unjustifiable proceedings, since the dissolution of parliament, of that faction denominated the New Catholic Association, and by the part the parish priests had taken at the late elections in Ireland. The cloven foot was no longer HOUSE OF COMMONS. concealed. The mask was removed; and Wednesday, November 22. if temporal power was to be conceded to ROMAN CATHOLIC CLAIMS.] Sir John the papists, they would soon become strong Brydges presented a petition from the enough to seize upon spiritual; and then parish of Wootton, in Kent, against any farewell to our Protestant religion and further concessions to the Roman Catho-laws! He called upon the country through lics, and for putting down the new Roman the legislature, before it was too late, for Catholic Association. He said, that he an expression of Protestant feeling, by could not remain quite silent upon a sub-petitions to annihilate the present wicked ject of such vital importance, lest he should attempt to overthrow the Protestant incur the charge of supineness in a cause establishment in church and state; dehe was most desirous to advocate. He claring that this was the time to remind concurred in the prayer of the petition, the empire of the words of the immortal and cordially rejoiced that the parish of Nelson:" England expects every man Wootton was thus early in the field to ex- to do his duty!" and he trusted he should press its opposition to popery, and its see presented to that House, without loss determination to uphold unimpaired our of time, petitions similar to the present, Protestant constitution; for he was firmly from one end of the kingdom to the other, convinced that if the legislature did not more numerous than had been offered promptly interpose its authority, and upon any other question. Whenever the quickly make use of the power it possessed question of Catholic emancipation should effectually to suppress the existing popish come before the House, he should be prefaction, and at once to shut the doorpared to state his reasons for the opposiagainst farther concession to the Roman tion he should give to that measure. Catholics, it must be expected, that that the mean time, he implored those who had portion of the benches of that assembly, lately become members of that House, to In |