SIR THOMAS MORE (1478-1535)

A DIALOGUE OF SYR THOMAS MORE, KNYGHTE

THE THIRDE BOKE. THE 16. CHAPITER

The messenger rehearseth some causes which he hath herd laid by some of the clergie: wherfore the Scripture should not be suffred in Englishe. And the author sheweth his mind, that it wer convenient to have the Byble in Englishe.

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"Syr," quod your frende, "yet for al this, can I see no cause why the cleargie shoulde kepe the Byble out of ley mennes handes, that can no more but theyr mother tong." "I had went," quod I, "that I had proved you playnely that they kepe it not from them. For I have shewed you that they kepe none from them, but such translacion as be either not yet approved for good, or such as be alredi reproved for naught, as Wikliffes was and Tindals. For as for other olde ones, that wer before Wickliffes daies, remain lawful, and be in some folkes handes had and read." "Ye saye well," quod he. "But yet as weomen saye, 'somewhat it was alway that the cat winked whan her eye was oute.' Surelye so is it not for nought that the English Byble is in so few mens handes, whan so many woulde so fayne have it." "That is very trouth," quod I; "for I thinke that though the favourers of a secte of heretikes be so fervent in the setting furth of their secte, that they let not to lay their money together and make a purse among them, for the printyng of an evill made, or evil translated booke: which though it happe to be forboden and burned, yet some be sold ere they be spyed, and eche of them lese but theyr part: yet I thinke ther will no printer lightly be so hote to put anye Byble in prynte at hys own charge, whereof the losse shoulde lye hole in his owne necke, and than 10 hang

upon a doutful tryal, whether the first copy of hys translacion, was made before Wickliffes dayes or since. For if it were made synce, it must be approved before the prynting.

"And surelye howe it hathe happed that in all this whyle God hath eyther not suffered, or not provided that any good verteous man hath hadde the mynde in faithful wise to translate it, and therupon ether the clergie or, at the least wise, some one bishop to approve it, thys can I nothing tell. But howesoever it be, I have hearde and heare so muche spoken in the matter, and so muche doute made therin, that peradventure it would let and withdrawe any one bishop from the admitting therof, without the assent of the remenant. And whereas many thinges be laid against it: yet is ther in my mind not one thynge that more putteth good men of the clergie in doubte to suffer it, than thys: that they see sometime much of the worse sort more fervent in the calling for it, than them whom we find farre better. Which maketh them to feare lest such men desyre it for no good, and lest if it wer hadde in every mannes hand, there would great peril arise, and that sedicious people should doe more harme therwith than good and honest folke should take fruite thereby. Whiche feare I promise you nothyng feareth me, but that whosoever woulde of theyr malice or folye take harme of that thing that is of it selfe ordeyned to doe al men good, I would never for the avoyding of their harme, take from other the profit, which they might take, and nothing deserve to lese. For elles if the abuse of a good thing should cause the taking away therof from other that would use it well, Christ should hymself never have been borne, nor brought hys fayth into the world, nor God should never have made it neither, if he should, for the losse of those that would be damned wretches, have kept away the occasion of reward from them that would with helpe of his grace endevor them to deserve it."

"I am sure," quod your frend, "ye doubte not but that I am full and hole of youre mynde 2 else

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in this matter, that the Byble shoulde be in oure Englishe tong. But yet that the clergie is of the contrary, and would not have it so, that appeareth well, in that they suffer it not to be so. And over that, I heare in everye place almost where I find any learned man of them, their mindes all set theron to kepe the Scripture from us. And they seke out for that parte every rotten reason that they can find, and set them furth solemnely to the shew, though fyve of those reasons bee not woorth a figge. For they begynne as farre as our first father Adam, and shew us that his wyfe and he fell out of paradise with desyre of knowledge and cunning. Nowe if thys woulde serve, it must from the knowledge and studie of Scripture dryve every man, priest and other, lest it drive all out of paradise. Than saye they that God taught his disciples many thynges apart, because the people should not heare it. And therefore they woulde the people should not now be suffered to reade all. Yet they say further that it is hard to translate the Scripture out of one tong into an other, and specially they say into ours, which they call a tong vulgare and barbarous. But of all thing specially they say that Scripture is the foode of the soule. And that the comen people be as infantes that must be fedde but with milke and pappe. And if we have anye stronger meate, it must be chammed afore by the nurse, and so putte into the babes mouthe. But me think though they make us al infantes, they shall fynde many a shrewde brayn among us, that can perceive chalke fro chese well ynough, and if they woulde once take3 us our meate in our own hand, we be not so evil-tothed but that within a while they shall see us cham it our self as well as they. For let them call us yong babes and they wil, yet, by God, they shal for al that well fynde in some of us that an olde knave is no chylde."

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"Surely," quod I, "suche thinges as ye speake, is the thyng that, as I somewhat sayd before, putteth good folke in feare to suffer the Scripture in our Englishe tong. Not for the reading and receiving: but for the busy chamming therof, and for much medling with such partes thereof, as least will agree with their capacities. For undoutedlye as ye spake of our mother Eve: inordinate appetite of knowledge is a meane to drive any man out of paradise. And inordinate is the appetite, whan men unlerned, though they reade it in

theyr language, will be busy to enserche and dyspute the great secret mysteries of Scripture, whiche though they heare, they be not hable to perceve.

"Thys thing is playnely forbode us that be not appoynted nor instructed therto. And therfore holi saint Gregory Naziazenus, that great solemne doctour, sore toucheth and reproveth al such bolde, busy medlers in the Scripture, and sheweth that it is in Exodie by Moyses ascending up upon the hill where he spake with God, and the people tarying beneath, signified that the people bee forboden 2 to presume to medle with the hygh mysteries of Holy Scripture, but ought to be contente to tary beneath, and medle none higher than is meete for them, but, receivyng fro the height of the hill by Moyses that that is delivered them, that is to witte, the lawes and preceptes that they must kepe, and the poyntes they must beleve, loke well therupon, and often, and medle wel therwith: not to dispute it, but to fulfille it. And as for the high secrete mysteries of God, and hard textes of hys Holye Scripture: let us knowe that we be so unable to ascende up so high on that hill, that it shail become us to saye to the preachers appoynted therto as the people sayd unto Moises: 'Heare you God, and let us heare you.' And surely the blessed holy doctour saynt Hierome greatelye complayneth and rebuketh that lewde homely maner, that the common ley peple, men and weomen, wer in his daies so bold in the medling, disputing, and expowning of Holi Scripture. And sheweth playnlye that they shall have evill prefe3 therein, that will reken themself to understand it by them selfe without a reader. For it is a thing that requireth good help, and long time, and an whole mynde geven greatelye thereto. And surelye, syth, as the holye Apostle Saynt Poule in divers of hys epistles sayth, God hath by his Holy Spirite so institute and ordeyned his churche, that he will have some readers, and some hearers, some teachers, and some learners, we do plainly pervert and tourne up so down the right order of Christes church, whan the one part medleth with the others office.

"Plato the great phylosopher specially for biddeth suche as be not admitted therunto, nor men mete therefore, to medle much and embusie themself in reasoning and dysputyng upon the temporall lawes of the citie, which would not be reasoned upon but by folke mete

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therfore and in place convenient. For elles they that cannot very wel attain to perceive them, begin to mislike, disprayse, and contemne them. Whereof so foloweth the breche of the lawes, and dysorder of the people. For tyll a lawe bee chaunged by authoritie, it rather ought to be observed than contemned. Or elles the exaumple of one lawe boldly broken and sette at naughte, waxeth a precident for the remenaunte to be used lyke. And commonlye, the best lawes shall woorste lyke 1 muche of the common people, which moste longe (if they myght be heard and folowed) to live al at libertie under none at all. Nowe if Plato, so wyse a man, so thought good in temporall lawes, thynges of mennes makyng, howe muche is it lesse meete for everye manne boldelye to meddle with the exposicion of Holye Scrypture, so devysed and endyted by the hyghe wisedome of God, that it farre excedeth in many places the capacitie and perceiving of man. It was also provided by the Emperour in the law civile, that the common people shoulde never be so bolde to kepe dispicions upon the fayth or Holy Scripture, nor that anye such thing shoulde be used among them or before them. And therefore, as I said before, the special feare in this matter is, lest we would be to busy in chammyng' of the Scripture our self, whiche ye saye we were hable' ynoughe to dooe. Whiche undoubtedlye, the wysest, and the best learned, and he that therein hathe by manye yeres bestowed hys whole minde, is yet unable to dooe. And than farre more unhable muste he nedes be, that boldly will upon the fyrst reading, because he knoweth the wordes, take upon him therfore to teche other men the sentence with peril of his own soule and other mennes too, by the bringyng men into mad wayes, sectes, and heresies, suche as heretikes have of olde brought up and the church hath condemned. And thus in these matters if the commen peple might be bold to cham it as ye say, and to dispute it, than should ye have, the more blind the more bold: the more ignoraunt the more busie: the lesse witte the more inquisitife: the more foole the more talkatife of great doutes and hygh questions of Holy Scripture and of Goddes great and secret misteries, and this not sobrely of any good affection, but presumpteouslye and unreverentlye at meate and at meale. And there, whan the wyne wer

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in and the witte out, woulde they take upon them with foolish wordes and blasphemie to handle Holie Scripture in more homely maner than a song of Robin Hode. And some would, as I said, solemnely take upon them like as thei wer ordinary readers to interprete the text at their plesure, and therwith fall themself and draw doun other with them into sedicious sectes and heresies, whereby the Scripture of God should lese his honour and reverence, and be by such unreverente and unsytting? demeanour, among muche people, quite and cleane abused,3 unto the contrary of that holye purpose that God ordayned it for. Where as, if we woulde no further meddle therewith, but well and devoutelye reade it: and in that that is playne and evident as Gods commaundementes and his holy counsayls endevour our self to folow with helpe of his grace asked therunto, and in his greate and merveilous miracles consider his God-head: and in his lowly birth, his godly life, and his bitter passion, exercise our selfe in suche meditacions, prayer, and vertues, as the matter shall minister us occasion, knowledgeing our owne ignoraunce where we fynd a dout, and therin leaning to the faythe of the churche, wrestle with no such text as might bring us in a doubte and werestye of anye of those articles wherein every good christen man is clere: by thys maner of reading can no man nor woman take hurt in Holy Scripture.

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"Nowe than, the thinges on the other syde that unlearned people can never by themself attayne, as in the Psalmes and the Prophetes and divers partes of the Gospell, where the wordes bee some time spoken as in the parsone of the Prophete himselfe, sometyme as in the parsone of God, sometime of some other, as angels, devils, or men, and sometime of our Savior Christ, not alway of one fashion, but sometime as God, sometime as man, somtime as head of this mistical body his church militant here in earth, sometime as head of his churche triumphant in heaven, somtime as in the persone of his sensuall parties of his own body, otherwhile in the person of some particular part of his body mystical, and these thinges with many other oftentimes interchanged and sodeinly sundrye thinges of divers matters diverslye mingled together, al these thinges which is not possible for unlearned men to attayn unto, it wer more than madnes for them to medle withal, but leave al these thinges

to them whose hole study is beset1 therupon, and to the preachers appointed therunto, whiche may shew them such thinges in time and place convenient with reverence and authoritie, the sermon so tempered, as may bee mete and convenient alwaye for the present audience. Wherunto it appereth that oure Saviour himself, and his apostles after him, had ever speciall respect: and therfore, as I say forsoth, I can in no wise agree with you that it wer mete for men unlearned to be busy with the chamming of holy scripture, but to have it chammed unto them. For that is the preachers part and theirs that after longe studye are admytted to reade and expown it. And to this entent waye 2 al the wordes, as farre as I perceve, of al holy doctours that any thing have writen in this matter.

"But never ment they, as I suppose, the forbydding of the Byble to be readde in any vulgare tong. Nor I never yet heard any reason layd, why it were not convenient to have the Byble translated into the Englishe tong, but al those reasons, semed they never so gay and glorious at the first sight: yet, when they were well examined, they myght in effect, for ought that I can see, as wel be layde against the holy writers that wrote the Scripture in the Hebrue tongue, and against the blessed evangelistes that wrote the Scripture in Greke, and against all those in likewise that translated it oute of every of those tonges into Latine, as to their charge that would well and faithfully translate it oute of Latine into our Englishe tong. For as for that our tong is called barbarous, is but a fantasye. For so is, as every lerned man knoweth, every straunge language to other. And if they would call it barayn of wordes, there is no doubte but it is plenteous enough to expresse our myndes in anye thing wherof one man hath used to speke with another. Nowe as touchynge the difficultie which a translatour fyndeth in expressing well and lively the sentence of his author, whiche is hard alwaye to doe so surely but that he shall sometime minyshe eyther of the sentence or of the grace that it bereth in the formar tong: that poynt hath lyen in their lyght that have translated the Scrypture alreadye eyther out of Greke into Latine, or out of Hebrue into any of them both, as, by many translacions which we rede already, to them that be learned appereth.

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"Now as touching the harme that may growe by suche blynde bayardes as will, whan they reade the Byble in Englishe, be more busy than will become them: They that touche that poynt harpe upon the right string, and touche truely the great harme that wer likely to growe to some folke: howe be it not by the occasion yet of the English translacion, but by the occasion of theyr own lewdnes and foly, whiche yet were not in my mynde a sufficiente cause to exclude the translacion, and to put other folke from the benefite therof: but rather to make provision agaynste such abuse, and let a good thing goe furth. No wise manne wer there that woulde put al weapons away because manquellers' misuse them.

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"Nor this letted not, as I sayd, the Scripture to be first writen in a vulgare tong. For Scripture, as I said before, was not writen but in a vulgare tonge, suche as the whole people understode, nor in no secrete cyphers but such common letters as almost every man could rede. For neither was the Hebrue nor the Greke tong, nor the Laten, neither any other speche than such as all the peple spake. And therfore if we shold lay that it wer evil done to translate the Scripture into our tong, because it is vulgare and comen to every Englishe man, than‘ had it been as evill done to translate it into Greke or into Latin, or to wryte the New Testament first in Greke, or the Old Testament in Hebrew, because both those tonges wer as verye vulgare as ours. And yet should there by this reason also, not onely the Scripture be kepte out of oure tong, but, over shoulde the reading therof be forboden, both al such ley people and all suche priestes too, as can no more than theyr grammer, and verye scantly that. All which companye though they can understande the wordes, be yet as farre from the perceiving of the sentence in harde and doubtefull textes, as were our weomen if the Scripture were translated to oure own language. How be it, of trouth, seldome hath it been seen that any secte of heretikes hath begonne of suche unlearned folke as nothynge coulde elles but the language wherein they read the Scripture: but there hathe alway comonly these sectes sprongen of the pryde of such folke as had, with the knowledge of that tong, some high persuasion in themselfe of their owne lerning beside. To whose authoritie some other folke have soone

1 murderers 2 hindered • declare 5 besides • knew 7 else

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after, parte of malice, parte of symplenesse, and muche parte of pleasure and delighte in new fanglenesse fallen in, and encreased the faccion. But the head hath ever comonly been eyther some prowde learned man, or, at the least, beside the language, some proude smaterer in learning. So that, if we should, for feare of heretikes that might hap to growe thereby, kepe the Scripture out of any tong, or out of unlerned mens handes, we should for like feare be fayne to kepe it out of al tonges, and out of lerned mens handes to,' and wot not whom we mighte trust therwith. Wherfore ther is, as me thinketh, no remedie but, if any good thing shall goe foreward, somewhat must nedes be adventured. And some folke will not fayle to be naughte. Agaynst which thinges provision must bee made, that as muche good maye growe, and as litle harme come as canne bee devysed, and not to kepe the whole commoditie 2 from any hole people, because of harme that by their owne foly and faulte may come to some part, as thoughe a lewde surgion woulde cutte of the legge by the knee to kepe the toe from the goute, or cut of a mans head by the shoulders to kepe him from the toothe ache.

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"There is no treatice of Scripture so hard but that a good vertuous man or woman eyther shal somewhat find therin that shall delyte and encreace their devocion, besydes this that everye preachinge shall be the more pleasant and fruitfull unto them, whan they have in their mind the place of Scrypture that they shall there heare expowned. For though it bee, as it is in dede, great wisedome for a preacher to use discrecion in hys preachyng and to have a respecte unto the qualities and capacities of his audience, yet letteth that nothinge, but that the whole audience maye without harme have read and have readye the Scrypture in mynde, that he shall in hys preachyng declare and expowne. For no doute is there, but that God and his Holye Spirite hath so prudentlye tempered theyr speche thorowe the whole corps of Scripture that every man may take good therby, and no man harme but he that wil in the study therof leane proudly to the foly of hys own wit.

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"For albeit that Chryst did speake to the people in parables, and expowned them. secretly to hys especiall disciples, and sometime forbare to tell some thynges to them also, because they were not as yet hable to

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beare them: and the apostles in lykewyse didde sometyme spare to speake to some people the thinges that they dydde not let playnly to speake to some other, yet letteth 2 all thys nothing the translacion of the Scripture into our own tong no more than in the Latine. Nor it is no cause to kepe the corps3 of Scripture out of the handes of anye Christen people so many yeres fastly confyrmed in fayth, because Christ and hys apostles used suche provision in their utterance of so strange and unherd misteries, either unto Jewes, Paynims,* or newly christened folk, except we would say that all the exposicions which Chryst made himself upon hys owne parables unto hys secret servauntes and disciples withdrawen from the people, shoulde nowe at thys day be kept in lykewyse from the comons, and no man suffred to reade or heare them, but those that in hys churche represent the state and office of hys apostles, whiche ther will, I wote well, no wyse manne say, consideryng that those thinges which were than comonly most kept from the people, be now most necessary for the people to knowe. As it well appeareth by al such things in effect as our Saviour at that tyme taught his apostles a part. Wherof I would not, for my mynde, witholde the profite that one good devoute unlerned ley man might take by the reading, not for the harme that an hundred heretikes would fall in by theyr own wilful abusion, no more than oure Saviour letted, for the weale of suche as woulde bee with hys grace of hys little chosen flock, to come into thys world and be lapis offensionis et petra scandali, the stone of stumbling and the stone of falling and ruine, to all the wilful wretches in the world beside.

"Finally me thynketh that the constitucion provincial of whiche we spake right now, hath determined thys question alreadye. For whan the cleargie therein agreed that the Englyshe Bybles should remayne whiche were translated afore Wickliffes dayes, they consequentlye dydde agree that to have the Byble in Englishe was none hurte. And in that they forbade any new translacion to be read till it wer approved by the bishoppes: it appeareth well therby that theyr intent was that the byshop should approve it if he found it faultlesse, and also of reason amend it where it wer faultye, but-if the manne wer an heretike that made it, or the faultes such and so many, as it were

1 hesitate 2 hinders body pagans • hesitated • unless