Debates in Feb. 20. 1807. ing been brought thus prominently before the public, and that a more sound, religious, and Christian feeling, has been elicited on this and similar important topics: and as it may be gratifying and useful to some to know what proceedings have been had in Parliament upon this subject, and the tenor of the debates respecting it, it may not be considered inappropriate to introduce in this portion of the work the debates which have at various times arisen when the Irish estimates have been brought forward, when petitions against any continued grant have been presented, or distinct and substantive motions made with reference thereto. The following seems to have been the first debate upon the question in the British House of Commons.* In the parliamentary debates of February 20th, 1807 †, on the Irish Miscellaneous Services, on the resolution that a sum of 5000l. be granted for the Roman Catholic College of Maynooth, in Ireland, in addition to the sum of 8000l. annually, which additional grant was for the erection of other buildings for the further accommodation of the students in that seminary, a short discussion took place. * Many of these reports are extracted at length; but some it has been found necessary to curtail of much irrelevant matter, in order to avoid prolixity; at the same time preserving the spirit of the debate. + Cobbett's Parl. Deb., vol. viii. p. 938. Mr. Perceval had no objection, as this esta- Mr.Perceval. blishment had been founded previous to the Union, to granting the sum of 80007, as usual; but as he looked upon the present proposed addition as the commencement of an increasing expenditure, which would tend to make that university rival the university of Dublin, and tend to the establishment of the Catholic religion, he felt it his duty to express his dissent to it in the first instance, though he did not then mean to press his opposition to a division. If he was rightly informed, the youth of the Roman Catholic gentry were educated at the university of Dublin before the establishment of this institution, which practice had only ceased since. If this addition was in this instance to be granted, it would be the foundation for a further application next year, and he was against the policy of giving any encouragement to the growth of the Roman Catholic religion. Newport. Sir John Newport observed, that the question Sir John was not whether the Catholic clergy should be educated in foreign countries, or at home; for in the present state of Europe they could not go for education to foreign countries. The question, therefore, was, whether they should be educated at all? Every gentleman would admit that the Catholics would not, by being educated abroad, be rendered better subjects, and that a domestic education for them was most desirable. Mr. A. H. Mr. Perceval. Sir Arthur Wellesley's statement. Since the establishment of the institution, by the disuse of foreign education the demand for a supply of Catholic clergymen had increased, in order to replace the infirm or the dead, and bad increased to such a degree, that the college did not afford sufficient. It had on that account been recommended by the government of Ireland to increase the grant, for the purpose of providing greater accommodations. The petition was solely for the education of the Catholic clergy; but a lay seminary* had been established near the college which had the benefit of the professors of the college. The Catholics had not been allowed to enter the university of Dublin till the relaxation of 1793, and this institution had immediately been founded. Mr. A. H. Herbert said, that there was not an item in the whole accounts to which he should give so hearty and cordial an assent as that which was now before the committee; he insisted that, if we were in earnest with the people of Ireland, -if Maynooth College was not a mockery,—we should not hesitate to give the grants necessary for its maintenance.† Mr. Perceval said, that many of the Catholic * This has long been discontinued. See antè, p. 38. This, it will be perceived, was made in an entire misunderstanding of the case; as it appears, from the statement of Sir Arthur Wellesley, that it was not intended that Maynooth should be supported from the public purse; gentry were educated in the Protestant university of Ireland before the erection of Maynooth College; but that since that impolitic measure, the number of Catholic pupils in Dublin College had considerably diminished. Sir J. Newport thought that the right honour- Sir J. Newable gentleman must have been misinformed on that head, as before the year 1793 no Roman Catholic students were admissible. port. Mr. Perceval further contended against the Mr. Perceval. policy of any institution for the encouragement of Catholicism in Ireland to the manifest injury of Protestantism. port. Sir J. Newport* denied that there was a lay Sir J. Newinstitution of the nature asserted by the honourable member: the college founded and supported by government was for the education of the priesthood, and the priesthood only: instruction to the laity, however, he admitted, might have been a secondary object. Mr. Grattan said that the question lay within Mr. Grattan. a narrow compass, whether the Roman Catholic was to go abroad, form foreign connections, and that the memorial presented previously to the foundation of that establishment prayed only for a charter, in order that their funds might be better secured. • The Commissioners of Irish Education Inquiry state in their Report, that there had been a lay college, though it was after a short time discontinued. See antè, p. 38. Mr. Bankes. Captain Lord Stanley. involve himself in foreign relations, and bring home foreign affections to his country; or whether he was to remain in his native land, and there acquire the instruction he was there to disseminate? If this could be as well effected in the College of Dublin, he should rejoice at it; for he would ever wish to see the Catholic and Protestant walking hand in hand together; he would wish to have them acting in such cooperation as to have in common the one grand impulse and the one grand end. But the expense of instruction was complained of. What was the expense? 13,000l. And what was got by that 13,000l.? The instruction of three millions and a half of people. This would be more than economy — it would be worse than parsimony. Keep the Roman Catholic at home; home education will promote allegiance; foreign education can engender no great loyalty: kept at home, and taught to love his country, he must revere its government. Mr. Bankes thought the institution highly impolitic, and maintained that Catholicism in Ireland should be discouraged rather than upheld. Captain Herbert warmly supported the institution, and illustrated its policy by an allusion to a certain occurrence in the French revolution, at the expulsion of the priests, and the consequent degradation of the Protestant clergy. Lord Stanley approved of the principles of the institution. |