University of larities certainly have taken place among the students upon that occasion for some years past. Very little insubordination has appeared in my class, for I have hitherto fortunately had no difficulty in keeping up the discipline in my class; but I have seen great tumult, Marischal College. and great insubordination for several weeks before the election of the Rector, and I have every reason to believe that the attention of the students is withdrawn from their business, by preparing for that election. Professor Glennie. 20 September 1827. Would you have any objection to trust the students of your class with the exercise of that right? As far as I have seen, they are not so much employed in canvassing, and in instances of improper conduct, as the students in the lower classes. As you describe the session to be too short for the full course of your lectures, do you think it might be advantageously prolonged?-Not in the present circumstances of the northern part of the kingdom. I know that it would be very detrimental to the interests of learning, and prevent many students who are of the most meritorious class, from prosecuting their studies here. Would that effect, in your opinion, be produced, even if it were prolonged a month ?— I know that a single week would make a very considerable difference to some students coming from the country. We have great difficulty in getting them even to make out the short session they have; and if I were to mention all the instances that have come under my own knowledge, of extraordinary exertions that are made by them in earning wages every hour that they were not in the classes of College, in order to pay the expenses of books and of their education, and likewise the extraordinary and increased exertions of parents to bring forward their sons to College, I think it would convince any one that a very great proportion of our students would be prevented from obtaining an academical education if this were the case. Do you think the students are poorer than they were about the beginning of the last century, when the session was one half longer?-I am not able to judge of that. Are you aware that the fees paid by the students here are double what are paid at St. Andrews, where a great proportion of the students come from the Highlands of Perthshire and Argyleshire?—I was not aware of that; but I know that several of the poor students here pass without paying any fees almost every year. Are you in the practice of not taking fees from those upon whom you find it would bear hard? Yes. Have you any reason to believe, that any proportion of the students of this University go for the fourth year to any of the other Colleges ?-None that I know of. I may mention, that during the 40 years that Dr. Beattie was teacher of the fourth class here, the average number of his students was 22, and they are considerably increased within the last 10 or 12 years the average now, I suppose, is 33, or perhaps 34. Have you any reason to believe that any proportion of young lads from the town are sent, for the first two years, or even the first three years, to this College, without any intention of prosecuting a University education further?-I believe there are a good many of them that do attend only two years, and they make choice either of the first and the second classes, or of the second and third. Are those generally very young lads?—They are just of the same age as the generality of the students. About what age, generally speaking, are the students in your class ?—The generality of them may be about 17 or 19; but I have always in my class several that ought to be in the first class, who have been sent too young to College, and whose minds are not sufficiently opened for the subjects I have to treat. What may be the age of those young lads ?-Perhaps 14 or 15. Have they gone through the previous classes?—Yes; some of them come at the age of 11 to College, others of them at the age of 12; those are the students who have made the best figure, perhaps, in the Grammar-School, and their parents, perhaps from vanity, wish to push them forward through the whole of their education, not knowing that they cannot make such a figure at College as they do while they are learning the Latin language. You mentioned, that you were in the practice of reading several of the Greek and Latin classics with the students: in doing that, have you chiefly in view the illustration of moral science, or do you take advantage of that to investigate the literary acquirements of the students?—I have both those objects in view; but the passages selected are almost always connected with the subjects of my course. At the same time you endeavour to ascertain the proficiency of the young men in classical attainments?—I do; and I lay great stress upon that, because I look upon it as the great object of academical education. Have you any other explanation to offer, with regard to your own class?—No. Is the annua. examination of the students particularly strict?-Yes, it is; I find it always of the greatest importance to the students to have it in view to prepare themselves for that examination, and they are particularly diligent to make a good figure upon that occasion; and with respect to my own course, I must say that before that examination comes on, there are many subjects that have occurred in the previous parts of the course which they are much better acquainted with by that time; and by revising their notes, they can understand these subjects much better than they do when they are perfectly new to them. Have the regulations on this subject been more strictly enforced lately than they were in former years?-I cannot say that they are more strictly enforced than formerly. Does a great proportion of your students consist of persons destined for the Church?-I perhaps have to give certificates to eight or ten students to go to the Divinity Hall every year. University of Will you state your opinion with regard to partial attendance at the Divinity Hall?— Regular attendance surely would be most desirable; but still I must refer to the same observation I made before, that the circumstances of the country at present prevent regularity of attendance; and the state of the parochial schools may be mentioned likewise as a bar to that regularity of attendance; but certainly every person would wish to see regularity of Professor Glennie. attendance in the Divinity Hall enforced, in the same manner as in the other classes. Marischal College. How would the state of the parochial schools interfere with it?--The allowances to the 20 September 1827. schoolmasters are at present so very small, that they cannot furnish substitutes to enable them to attend the whole course at the Divinity Hall. Are many of those, who are intended for the Church, during that period teaching schools? -Yes. Any considerable proportion?—I cannot tell what the proportion is, but I should think it is considerable. Is it not the fact, that several of your students are parochial schoolmasters before they attend your class?-Several of them are. Would it not be equally practicable to provide substitutes during the short session of three months that they attend the Divinity Hall, as it is during a session of five months?— If it were made imperative, it perhaps might. Have you formed any opinion of the advantages of a union of the two Colleges, or of the two Universities ?-A union of the two Colleges I would not approve of, on account of the number of students that must be taught in the different classes; if they were to be united, and if the examinations were to be continued, I do not see that those examinations could be prosecuted with any advantage to the students in such numerous classes as must then be collected. What is your opinion with respect to a union of the two Universities?—I have not formed an opinion of what advantages might be derived from a union of the Universities. Do you think there exist the means of furnishing the Commissioners with a return, not only of the names of the irregular students at the Divinity Hall, but of their residences and occupations ?-A return of the names of the irregular students might be very easily given; but I am not aware that their residences and occupations could be ascertained but with difficulty, because they come from such various quarters. Do you think the Professor of Divinity could furnish that?—I do not think so. A certificate must be presented from the parish minister by every person entering the Divinity Hall, so that that would ascertain the parish to which each of them belonged. be Do you think it would be advisable to supersede the elementary Greek class?—It would very desirable if the elements of Greek could be taught in all the parochial schools. Do you conceive that that might be effected if it were understood that the students should enter the Greek class, having made a certain degree of progress?—I certainly think, in a few years, it might be accomplished. From the number of young men that study at College and leave it, are you of opinion, that if the remuneration of the parochial schoolmasters were increased, there would be any difficulty in getting good scholars to fill those situations ?-None at all. Are any of the essays, written by your students, read in the class ?-Some of them are; and the Latin essays are read in the presence of the whole students. Do you select those that are read, in consequence of their merit?—Yes. Have you any suggestions to offer to the Commissioners, connected either with your own class or with the condition of the University?-I beg leave to mention that our students are subjected to the Militia Act, which is quite different from what is the case in the English Universities; and that this subject has been more particularly laid upon my shoulders, as I have had the carrying on the correspondence upon that subject with respect to the whole of the Universities in Scotland; and, if I am permitted, I will point out what I have done as to that matter. Here is a copy of a minute dated Marischal College, 26th May 1823. A paper, of which the following is a copy, was laid before the Faculty by Dr. Glennie-At a meetnig of the members of the Universities, held at Edinburgh last year, during the King's visit to Scotland, it was proposed, that an application should be made to His Majesty's Government, to grant, by a revision of the Militia Act for Scotland, the same exemption from the militia to the students at the Universities in Scotland as is allowed by the Militia Act for England to the students at the English Universities. The subject was allowed by all present to be of great importance to the Scotch Universities, and it was requested that the Senatus Academicus of Marischal College should bring it under the consideration of those members of the Universities who should attend the meeting to be held in May, 1823, during the meeting of the General Assembly. The Principal and Professors of the Marischal College do now, therefore, request the attention of the meeting of the members of the Universities to the following particulars: in the Militia Act for England, 42 George III. cap. 90, s. 43, the exemptions are specified in the following terms: And be it further enacted, That no peer of this realm, &c. &c., nor any person being a resident member of either of the Universities, nor any clergyman, nor any teachers licensed within the county, riding, &c. shall be liable to serve personally, or provide a substitute to serve in the militia,' &c. In the Militia Act for Scotland, 42 Geo. III, cap. 91, s. 38, the exemptions are expressed as follows: And be it further enacted, That no peer of this realm, &c., nor any person being a Professor of any of the four Universities, nor any licensed clergyman, nor any parish schoolmaster, &c. &c., shall be liable to serve personally, or provide a substitute to serve, in the militia,' &c. It has been ascertained beyond a doubt, that the expression resident member, in the English Act, comprehends all those students who regularly attend terms at the two Universities, and it 6 University of Marischal College. Professor Glennie. 20 September 1827. Professor Kidd. therefore corresponds to our expression, regular students, and it is well known that all such English students are actually exempted from the militia. Several cases have occurred in the Marischal College, in which students, during their philosophical course, would have been obliged either to leave the classes immediately and become militia-men, or to pay each £20, £30, or £40 sterling for a substitute, if they had not previously insured themselves against the operation of the Militia Act. Similar instances must have occurred in the other Universities. It could never have been the intention of the legislature to impose so great a hardship on the students of the Universities of Scotland. The Militia Act being a public act, we can incur no expense by obtaining from his Majesty's Government a revision of the Act, so as to include a clause of exemption of the following tenor:- And be it further enacted, That no peer of this realm, &c., nor any person being a Principal or Professor, or a regular student in any of the five Universities, &c., shall be liable to serve personally, or provide a substitute to serve in the militia.' This matter has been mentioned to several Members of Parliament, who all agreed in opinion, that if memorials were presented by the Universities, stating the grievance, it would be immediately remedied. If an object so desirable cannot now be obtained in the present session of Parliament, it will at least be allowed that it ought by all means to be urged during the continuance of peace." In confirmation of what is stated in that minute, I beg leave to mention that Mr. Melvin, the rector of the grammar-school, while he was attending my class, was drawn as a militia-man, and would have been obliged to serve as a militia-man, if he had not connected himself with a society, by which a substitute was provided. In consequence of that minute, I had letters from Professor Jameson, from Principal Baird, of Edinburgh, from Principal Nicoll, of St. Andrews, from Principal Macfarlane, of Glasgow, and Professor Scott, of King's College; and in consequence of that, I had the honour of corresponding with the Lord Advocate, and with the Chancellor of our College, upon the subject ;-and there the matter rests at present. Are you Curator of the Library for this year?-I am. Do the students of your class make much use of the Library ?—No, they do not. When any of them apply to me to authorize them to get a book from the Library, I grant a permission to them to get the book, according to the regulations for the Library that are mentioned in the Returns. Do you think that one hour a week is a sufficient time for the Library to be open?From the experience I have had of those that apply for books at the Library, I think it is sufficient. Have you any suggestions to make for the improvement of the University, or the interests of learning?--None that occur to me at present.-[The Witness withdrew.] The Reverend James Kidd, D.D., called in and examined. You are Professor of Oriental Languages in this University?—I am. Will you have the goodness to state to the Commissioners the method in which you pro- pursue is Will you state the method you pursue in teaching your class?-The method I this. After I have taught them the elements of the language, and taught them to spell and to read, I always read before them, every day, the portion I wish them to prepare for the day following, always pointing out, if there be anything critical, how they should try to understand it; and occasionally, when I have it in my power to get them together, I lecture either upon the origin of the language, or upon some of the antiquities of the lan guage; but they will not attend lectures-their business is just to scramble for a little of the elements of the language, and to leave the class. Are the Commissioners to understand that the Return you have made of the attendance is not correct?—It is correct, but they do not attend me regularly; and as I have no compulsion upon them, I have no means of enforcing attendance. University of Marischal College. Professor Kidd. Do they pay fees?—No, they do not; I found that it was impossible for them to pay fees; many of them are poor, and I have endeavoured for many years back just to leave 20 September 1827. it to themselves. I say there is need in the city for some charitable institution, and I wish, if you think it proper, to collect a few shillings, four or five shillings, and I will sink it in the hands of one of the magistrates of Aberdeen; it may lie for many years, and it may in time be the foundation of some charitable support. I have done so, and it lies in the hands of Baillie Brown. What grammar do you use?-I in general lay down upon a board every thing that I call a rule. You can bring any grammar, I say, that you please, in this class; and many times they have taken away grammars from my class, just from those specimens. It is the same thing to me, in general, what grammar they bring. Do you discipline your students much in the knowledge of the verbs, and declining the different forms of Hebrew verbs ?-I do every day most particularly, and regularly through the whole class. Do you find those that continue to the end of the course able to consult lexicons for themselves with facility?-They might perhaps be able to do it for a little while after they leave the College, while it is fresh in their memory; but if you let them remain for a year, and then try them, they could not do it. Do you mean to say that Hebrew is very much neglected?-I think it is very much neglected. I think it is a pity; probably I am partial to it, as a pursuit I have followed so long. Do you not think that the disposition for receiving instruction in Hebrew is rather increasing?—I rather think so; because when I came here, there was scarcely any such thing taught in the North. Do you teach Chaldee and Syriac ?-No; I can hardly ever get them to be master of Hebrew the Chaldee is quite a sister language; the characters are the same, and there is very little difference in the grammatical construction. Ďo you think that attendance upon your class should be made imperative by the Church? -I think so, because we cannot get them to attend. How many years should students be required by the Church to attend ?-I should think two, to make them masters of the Hebrew Scriptures. There is a lecturer in Hebrew in this town, is there not ?—As far as I know, there is no such thing; there is a young man, I believe, that professes to teach a little, but I do not think he lectures; and it is but profession in general that he makes, because he has never been able to make a scholar. Do you think there are any of the regular students of Divinity who altogether neglect the study of Hebrew ?—I rather think there are a few; a number of them, for many years back, have been regular attendants, but some of them still neglect it, and strive to gather from others a little, just to pass the Presbytery. Do many of the students attending this College attend your chapel ?-I never understood that; they may attend it, but I never understood there was a practice of that sort; so far on the contrary, I meddle not with their sentiments, I meddle not with their opinions, I do not at all touch those things; when they enter my class, I say, " Gentlemen, you must attend to me;" that is all the rule I have; and I never wanted respect in my class when they do attend; and I never had to complain of any bad language, or any bad manners, from any gentleman that ever attended me. Is it in the power of the students to go to any church that they please?—Yes, that is the rule, I believe. They ought to go to the College church; but I believe that our Professors permit them to go where they please, or nowhere, if they please. I am very certain that is the rule; and I think, moreover, unless some steps be taken with respect to that, the establishment will be greatly injured by the revival of the Dissenters, and with a degree of energy, which the gentlemen in the church must see rising up in every direction, and both detracting and extracting from us all that is possible. I am amazed that has not been seen long ere this time. Do you think if proper accommodation were provided for the students in any one church, and if a Professor were to accompany them, that those connected with the establishment would be generally disposed to attend?-I rather think they might; though it is possible that amongst them there might be partialities which it might be difficult to overrule, and after the liberty they have enjoyed it might be difficult to reduce them, unless the preacher were very popular. Had we such a preacher as Dr. Chalmers, or some popular man, it is likely that what is proposed might be done; but unless there were some rule for that, it would be difficult to effect it. Have you any thing to suggest to the Commissioners, connected either with your own class, or with the University in general?—With the permission of the Commissioners, I will lay a short memorial before them, which will bring before them the situation of my class better than anything else they can have.-[The Witness delivered in the same, which was ordered to be added as supplementary to his evidence. See below.-The Witness withdrew.] University of Marischal College. Professor Kidd. 20 September 1827. [On the Evidence being sent to the Witness for verbal correction, he requested leave to add the following observations]: "I beg leave, most humbly and most respectfully, to entreat the attention of the very honourable and the very reverend the Commissioners to the salary of my class in the College. No man can live upon it; and no man can fully and faithfully discharge the office of a Professor in a University, and the office of a pastor in the church, at the same time. I presume no man will accuse me of indolence, and I declare to the Commissioners I cannot discharge the functions of both offices to my own satisfaction. I most humbly submit this subject to consideration." "To the Very Honourable and the Very Reverend the Royal Commissioners appointed by His Majesty to Visit the Colleges and Universities of Scotland, "THE MEMORIAL OF THE UNDERSIGNED "Most humbly sheweth,-That your memorialist has taught for 34 sessions, that the want of a power to enforce attendance has all along been a subject of deep regret; that few attend the class for Oriental Languages, and these few attend only as they please-one day, perhaps, in the week, and that for a short part of the session; that this prevents progress, and is a great annoyance; that it is not possible to make a Hebrew scholar in one session, so short as three months; that the mode of examination by the Presbytery greatly retards a knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures; that at present the Presbytery of Aberdeen examine only on the first 12 chapters of the book of Genesis, and perhaps on nine or ten Psalms; and when the students can with difficulty go so far, they stop, and will not read farther; that this can never make a scholar in the Hebrew Scriptures; that two years at least would be necessary to understand the poetic and prophetic Hebrew Scriptures with tolerable accuracy. "That the salary annexed to the class for Oriental Languages in Marischal College is never above £80 per annum, and during the income-tax was only £75; that for the three years last past it has been little above £70, on accnunt of the low interest of money; and last year it was not £67, as the returns to the very honourable Commissioners will shew; that the smallness of the salary for the Professorship of Oriental Languages compelled your memorialist to seek a living in the church-a circumstance loudly reprobated by a party in the church; that if your memorialist had a living by his class, he would give up that he holds in the church cheerfully; that, in general, the resources of the students who attend the Hebrew class are so limited that they are unable to pay a fee, and in consequence of this, for many years back, your memorialist has discovered the very great difficulty which many of them laboured under to pay a guinea; that therefore, in order not to hurt the feelings of the poorer lads, your memorialist made the fee of the class optional-a few shillings, four or five, as the class agreed; and he yearly put the proceeds into the hands of one of the magistrates of Aberdeen, that at some future time they might be the foundation of a fund for building a Female Orphan Hospital in this city, of which there is the very greatest necessity. With most profound respect, from your memorialist, "JAMES KIDD, L.L. O.O. P." Dr. Ewing. Alexander Ewing, Esq., M.D., called in and examined. You are appointed lecturer on Anatomy and Physiology by the two Colleges?—I am. Will you have the goodness to state the nature of the course you give ?-The period of the course is the usual time at the University, five months; and we have our meetings three times a week regularly, sometimes oftener; and I go on with the lectures much the same as they do in other Anatomical classes; that is to say, the structure of the human body is minutely described, and illustrated by demonstrations from the subject, preparations and drawings, &c., with a general reference to Physiology; and part of the Physiology is given separately at the end of the course. As nearly as possible the lectures are given in the same way as at Edinburgh, London, and Paris. Are the meetings regularly three times a week?-They are regularly three times a week, and frequently oftener: it depends partly upon the supply of subjects that we have. We have been, latterly, well supplied with subjects; for instance, last winter, I demonstrated here twelve subjects. At Edinburgh they used to demonstrate, when old Dr. Monro was there, about three. The winter before last I had seven subjects for demonstration. Do the medical students here appear to prosecute their studies with considerable zeal?— They prosecute their studies with great ardour in general. The dissections are carried on every day for a part of the course, and the whole of the students may go into the class and see what is going on, without being charged anything additional for attending the dissections, or practical Anatomy, as in other places. As long as they are quiet they may go into the class and read over a description of the parts which are being dissected, in their books. A certain number are dissecting, and the others are reading; while I go frequently, through the course of the day, myself, to see what is going on, and direct the students. Do you think there is a tolerable prospect of being able to establish a medical school here? I think there is. When I first began here, nine years ago, there were only about 10, 12, or 15 students, and they have increased rapidly last winter I had about 58 or 59; the year before that, about 59; or, the last three years, there have been about 50 or 60 students at an average; and we have been pretty well supplied with subjects: the dissections have been numerous, and I give the students the opportunities which I have mentioned; I let them come into the dissecting-room, and see what is going on; and that, in many respects, |