University of King's College. Professor M'Pherson. 17 September 1827. Professor Tulloch. field at every vacancy-a circumstance greatly to be desired by those who have known every active situation in the University to be declined, or, after acceptance, resigned by aspirants for similar situations in better endowed seminaries. 2dly. It might be coupled with restrictions as to the age of admission, which could not otherwise be enforced with ut manifest injury to present incumbents. 3dly. It might be coupled with the regulation, that no Professor should derive any benefit whatever from degrees granted in any of the faculties;—and, 4thly. It might enable the fees now exacted for degrees to be appropriated solely to the use of the Library, or some other general and useful purpose. John Tulloch, Esq., A.M., called in and examined. You are Professor of Mathematics in this College?—I am. You have seen the Returns made by the Senatus Academicus; do you agree in all the statements there contained ?—I do. Have you any suggestions to offer, for the consideration of the Commissioners, connected with the interests of the University, and the way in which you think they may be promoted?-Very few. The Commissioners will be happy to hear anything you have to suggest? I think a different arrangement of the hours of teaching would be attended with advantage. What would you propose?-Four classes. The classes of Greek, Mathematics, Natural and Moral Philosophy, meet at the same hour, which renders it impossible for the young men that attend one of them to attend any other during that session; and I think an arrangement could be easily made, that two or three of them should meet at different hours, so as to put it in the power of a young man to attend perhaps two of those classes in one year. Would that make it necessary to give up the third hour of the first Greek class?—I do not think it would, because the first year they attend the Greek and Latin classes, and no others. Do you propose that they should attend the Mathematics the first year of the course?— Not the first year of the course; they attend that the second year. Is it the elementary class of Mathematics that they attend the second year?—Yes. Is there more than one class of Mathematics?—There is a second class, but the Professor of Natural Philosophy teaches it; there is one meeting a day devoted to Mathematics in that class, in the third year of the course. Then he is teaching the second class of Mathematics along with the Natural Philosophy course?—Yes. Do you approve of that plan ?—No; I think it would be an improvement to have a separate class. In the event of that change taking place, would you not prefer the Natural Philosophy class being the last class in the course?-No; I think that would be a bad arrangement. Is there not a danger, if the Natural Philosophy class is treated scientifically, as it ought to be, that there will not be sufficient mathematical knowledge in the students that attend it ?—As they attend the Mathematical class at the same time, they have sufficient knowledge of Mathematics during the third year of their course to be able to go through the Natural Philosophy class. Suppose the application of the fluxionary calculus to Mechanics to be brought forward before the students have reached the knowledge of fluxions at all, would not that defeat the great use of the Natural Philosophy class altogether?—Yes, it might partly; but they seldom go so far. In the Natural Philosophy class, to be sure, in dynamics, statics, &c., they can introduce the fluxionary calculus; but I conceive that they are sufficiently qualified, provided they attend the second Mathematical class during the time they attend the Natural Philosophy class. Will you proceed to state any other suggestions you wish to make?-The Chemistry class has been here made a part of the curriculum, I think so lately as the year 1817. I understand it is not a part of the curriculum in any other College in Scotland, and it was made compulsory upon all Bursars to attend it during the second year of their course. Now I think, if it be continued a part of the curriculum, it should be left to the student himself to select the year he would like to attend; it is fixed to the second year now, and if it were optional with the student to attend it any one of the four years of his course, I think it would be a great improvement. The second Greek class meets here but two hours a week; now I think it should meet at least one hour a day. Would you apply the same observation to the Humanity class?—Yes; the first Humanity class meets twice a-week, and the second three times a week; now, I think each of them should meet at least once a day. What classes would you propose to comprise in the two first years of the course?-The first year, Greek and Latin exclusively; and the second year, Greek and Latin, and the elementary parts of Mathematics; that is to say, an hour in the Greek class, an hour in the Latin class, and two hours in the first Mathematical class. Is hot that an hour less than you meet at present?—Yes; but I propose having a second Mathematical class, which would occupy another hour. Have you any further suggestions to offer?-By the regulations as they now stand, we compel a young man to attend the Greek class four years; that is, for one year, three hours a day, and, for the three successive years, two hours a week. Now, I should think that three years' attendance should be enough, because I have known young men that attended three years, who could not get the degree of Master of Arts, because they had omitted to attend that class two hours a week; they had private teaching, and various other things which took up their time, and I think that if they were to attend three years in the Greek class, and three in the Humanity, and the fourth year in the Chemistry class, that would be a better arrangement. Do you consider it as part of that arrangement that the second Greek class should be taught every day?—Yes. Would you have a third Greek class, or would you merely wish them to read more difficult authors in the third year?-It would be in fact a third Greek class, because they would not read the same that they read before. But meeting at the same hour?-I suppose so; but the hour would be arranged. Again, in the Moral Philosophy class, there are three hours now; I should think it would be an improvement to have two hours of Moral Philosophy, and a Logic class by itself. By that means it would be in the power of young men in any other classes to attend it; we have but one Professor for both now. I think it would be desirable to divide his time. Have you any other suggestions to make?—I do not recollect any others at present. Will you mention what branches you teach in your own class, and the order in which you teach them?—I begin with the Theory of Arithmetic, and then I devote an hour a day to Algebra, and an hour a day to Geometry and Geometrical Analysis; and, towards the close of the session, I teach Plane Trigonometry, Mensuration of Heights and Distances, Surfaces and Solids. How far do you proceed in the study of Algebra ?-As far as cubic equations. What books do you use?-I allow them to select their own books. We have not in our language a good comprehensive course, which can be got at a moderate price. There are many excellent treatises on the different branches of mathematical science, but they are very expensive. I prescribe all the examples myself; at every meeting I prescribe exercises, which are given in at the following meeting. In the geometrical part of the course, it is presumed you use Euclid's elements?— Certainly. Have you any particular text-book in Algebra ?-No particular text-book; we have used Dr. Hutton's course, which is adopted at the Academy at Woolwich, but it is very imperfect; it does very well for his purpose, but not so well for ours. Do you prescribe exercises daily?—I do. Are they imperative upon all the students ?-Quite so. In the event of a student not giving in the exercises you require, what happens ?—It is optional to fine him, or to expose his ignorance to the class. Do most of them perform the exercises?-A great many of them do; there are some that do not, but whether they solve it themselves or not, they all endeavour to have a solution before they come. Do you give prizes in your class?—Yes. Have you found the distribution of prizes excite them to emulation?—I have, very much. Are you satisfied in the way in which they have been distributed?-Upon the whole, I am. There are imperfections attached to every method of doing it, but I think, upon the whole, the way we now do it is the best. Have you generally found reason to concur in the decision of the students?—I have ; there might have been instances of young men that were more deserving, but I never saw one get a prize who did not deserve to get it. Your prizes are given for proficiency and general good conduct, and not for any particular exercises?-Yes, they are given by the suffrages of the students; and, upon the whole, I have every reason to be pleased with what I have seen in my class. You have only one Mathematical class?—No more; but it meets three times a day. Are you in the habit of carrying your students out for mensuration, and the measuring of heights and distances?—Yes; towards the close of the session I go out with them regularly, and shew them the practical method of measuring heights and distances. That, of course, requires a good deal of extra time, besides the regular hours?—Yes; I have always taken extra time for that; in the month of March, I have been two or three hours every time. How often do you do that?-Not often; it depends upon the weather. If the weather is unfavourable, I do not go much; but I have gone out for five, six, or seven times, taking eight or nine with me at a time. Do you think that a greater proportion of the young men have performed those exercises you have mentioned, since the institution of prizes in the class?-I am not sure of that; but I know that many of them perform them much better than they did before. Do you see a greater proportion of good exercises than you did before ?—Yes. How many years do the students usually attend your class?--They attend me but one year. Do you think it would be an improvement to have a second class?—I think it would: there is, properly speaking, but one Mathematical class; the Professor of Natural Philosophy teaches the second year; that has been the practice here for the last thirty years. Is the attendance upon you, in the second year, optional?-No; it is requisite. University of King's College. Professor Tulloch. 17 September 1827. Is there any reason, except old custom, to prevent that change that I know of; but I believe, at the time of the institution of it, th imposition of an additional fee. Is the second Mathematical class taught for the same fee that i Philosophy? It is. It is presumed, that a very small proportion of the students ha ledge of Mathematics before coming to your class?-A good many ledge of Arithmetic and Algebra, and some have a pretty extensi much of Geometry. Those that intend to go for prizes, work a they come up pretty well prepared. What kind of exercises do you prescribe?-I prescribe, in Al the rules. Equations, simple and quadratic, and cubic. I pres four at every meeting, as I consider them easy or difficult. Towa sion, I give them out exercises in Geometry, connected with the s elements. About what age are the students generally, when they attend seen a few at 12, but generally from 14 to 20; and I have as 2.5 or 26. When you examine those exercises, do you express any opinion Every student is examined vivá voce; he stands up in his place giving reasons for every step of the process, or he leaves his plac with his own hand. I invariably require him to explain every I wish to ascertain whether his exercises are his own production soon seen. In this University, Natural Philosophy is taught before Mo approve of that arrangement?-I do; it was made in the year and Dr. Gerrard and Dr. Campbell were members of the two C Do you give certificates to the students at the end of the sessio Do you vary those certificates, according to the different deg students?—Yes; I sometimes find it difficult to give a certificate; it to the appearance that the students have made in my class, an of them. Suppose a young man be very eminent, would his certificate e Is a certificate ever given, except in cases of punctual and always state whether he attended regularly or not; and I tell hi does not attend regularly, I cannot give him a regular certificate Is there any examination at the commencement of the third men enter the second Mathematical class?—Yes; there is an ex sars, but not of the students generally. Do you think it would be advantageous to extend to the re gulation recently adopted with regard to the Bursars, of exar ning of each session, and of remitting such as were unable t more advanced class to the former classes ?—I think it would be Do you think, generally speaking, that the young men leave for commencing Natural Philosophy?—If they attend the Math must do during the third year, I think they are qualified. Have you opportunities of knowing whether many of th during the vacation?-I think a good many of them do ;they co particularly those who expect to go for prizes, of whom there ar in a class of 40 or 50, or 60. Have you any means of ascertaining, from personal observa of the arrangement at Aberdeen, making the study of Physics lectual Philosophy; has it, in your opinion, tended to lead t physical science further?-I think it has. You think, upon the whole, it has led to greater attainmen -I am not prepared to give a decided opinion upon that su better mode of proceeding. Upon what ground do you rest your opinion?-On accour ing the subject. I think a man requires to have all his faculti upon the study of mind. Does your class meet regularly at the appointed hour? think I was ever five minutes late at any one time in my life. The first hour of the day is not a complete hour, is it? am punctual to the time of meeting; I find it easier to be reg Do you call a catalogue in your class?—Yes; the censor ca Have you every reason to be satisfied with the regular attendance of your students?— I have. If, from illness or any other cause, they do not attend, I make it a point to inquire; and if they are away a meeting or two, I go to their lodgings, or send the Censor to ask what has happened. In short, every student is under your own personal observation and inspection ?—Yes. In the course of a week I know all their names; and they commonly have letters of introduction to me, so that I feel it my duty to look after them. Do they continue their attendance regularly to the end of the session ?—Yes. Do you think it could be advantageously lengthened?-Not much; perhaps it might be extended to six months; but a great many of our students are poor, and we have not an hour's vacation in session-time, except on Christmas-day and New Year's-day, and on Saturdays; there is no meeting on Saturday in any class. The candidates for degrees in Arts are not examined by you?-Not by me; they are examined by the Professor of Natural Philosophy. Are they examined by him in all the branches?-I suppose so; he can, if he chooзe; but I am not sure as to the mode of doing it. Do you know if he ever rejects any ?—I am not aware that he does; at least in my time he has not. Do many of the parents of the young men attending your class apply for a dispensation. for their sons from attendance at the College Church ?-They do, frequently. Even those who are of the Established Church?—They do. Do they generally assign any reason for the preference of another church ?-No: they say that they wish them to attend another church; and as we have no wish to interfere with the religious opinions of the parents, we generally give them leave, when a parent or a guardian applies to us. Not when the young man himself states a wish ?—No. Unless he belongs to a different persuasion ?—Even then, he must bring a note from the parents or the guardian. Do you expect, from the parents or guardians, a pledge that they will regularly attend some place of worship?-We do; and in some cases, I have required them to bring a certificate from the clergyman whom they have attended, that they did attend his church. Are those applications confined to parents residing at Aberdeen, or do they extend to those residing in the country?-Some at Aberdeen, and some in the country. Is it for the purpose of keeping up, or rather of acquiring the power of preaching in Gaelic, that any of them go to the Gaelic Chapel?-Some of them do: a good many of the Highlanders go to the Gaelic Chapel. What proportion of your class may attend the College Church?-Perhaps two thirds. And the other third have dispensations, either as Dissenters, or as having obtained leave upon the application of their parents?—Yes. Every Professor exercises his own discretion in granting the permission?-Yes: he has a written application from the parents, and upon that he gives in a list of the names to the Sub-Principal, or rather to the Public Censor, who gives it to the Sub-Principal. Is that permission ever refused, when applied for by a parent or guardian ?—Never, so far as I know. Is it the Sub-Principal that determines whether permission shall be given or no?—No; it is by the regulation of the College. It is presumed that the note is given in to the Sub-Principal as presiding at the Court?— As presiding at the imposition of the fines, that he may be aware of those that have leave, and those that have not. Are you aware that an application was made, at a recent Rectorial Visitation of the sister College, from a number of the students, stating an objection to the shortness of the session, and wishing it to be lengthened?—No, I am not aware of that; and I think it extraordi nary that such an application should come from the students, because they in general think it long enough. Is there any such thing as boarding within the College now?-Not for the last two or three years, since we began to repair our buildings. The boarding-house was not prepared for two or three years; but it is ready now, and I suppose we shall have some this year. Do a considerable number avail themselves of the opportunity of being boarded in that manner?—Not a great many; I have seen twenty, less or more, at the College table. Have you turned your attention to the practicability of a union between the two Colleges? I have often heard it discussed, and I have heard a great deal of talk upon the subject; but I confess I am not very well prepared to give an opinion upon the subject. For my own part, I have never been able to see the advantages which it has been stated would be derived from the union; I have seen some of the disadvantages, but I have not been able to see any of the advantages. Setting aside all questions with respect to the funds, as interfering with the interests of the individual Professors, do you think it would be advantageous for the interests of learning, if the two Colleges were amalgamated, so as to have a greater number of Professors, but not Professors teaching upon the same subject ?-I think it would be a great advantage to have more Professors, because the course in both is very incomplete. We want a Professor of Chemistry, a Professor of Natural History, and a Professor of Logic; and in Medical Science we have but one Professor. Would there be any disadvantages attending that arrangement, entrusting to one Professor the work now done by two Professors ?-Perhaps the number of students might be F No. IV. University of King's College. Professor Tulloch. 17 September 1827. University of King's College. 17 September 1827. objected to, but then it would not be so great as at Edinburgh and Glasgow, even uniting them. What are the obstacles to that Union ?-The obstacle to uniting us as we are, and leaving the Colleges as they are, is this, that we are two bodies running the same course; and hence I have observed a kind of rivalry and jealousy, and a desire to avoid meeting one another, if possible. Is not that an obstacle, rather to the Colleges being brought to act together than to a union of the whole system of academical instruction into one College?—Yes. Do you think it would be advantageous, if the whole academical instruction carried on at Aberdeen were carried on in one College, that College being a University?-I think so, because then the course could be complete, whereas now it is very imperfect. Comparing the progress that Aberdeen has made with the progress which St. Andrews has made, does it appear to you that any great advantage has arisen from the emulation that might be supposed to arise from there being separate Professors in the two Colleges, in the same branches?-I am not aware that it has. Has not the proportion of increase, in the last 30 or 40 years, been rather in favour of St. Andrews, as compared with Aberdeen?—I think, that for the last 16 years we have nearly doubled our numbers. Are you speaking of Aberdeen generally, or of King's College?—I believe, in both Colleges. Are there any other disadvantages or obstacles, than such as may arise from existing individual interests, attending a union or an amalgamation of the two Colleges?-Not an amalgamation; I am not aware that there are. Do you know whether it often happens that the students, after passing through the classes of this College, go to any other classes at Edinburgh or Glasgow, for the purpose of completing their education?-Some go to Edinburgh to complete their Divinity studies; the students of Law, of course, go to Edinburgh, and the students of Medicine; but I am not aware of any other students going. It appears, that in 1811 the number matriculated was 40; in the year 1812 they were 156; can you explain how that difference arose ?-Till the year 1812, we only matriculated those that entered for the first time; whereas, in the year 1812, we matriculated all that entered. [The Witness withdrew.] Professor Paul. The Reverend William Paul, A.M., called in and examined. You are Professor of Natural Philosophy in this College?—I am. Have you seen, and do you concur in, the Answers that have been sent to the Commissioners by the Senatus Academicus?—Yes. Have you any suggestions that you would wish to bring under the notice of the Commissioners, as tending to promote the interests of the University in general, or of your own class in particular?-With regard to my own class, I would beg leave to mention, that since the classes were fixed in this University, the higher branches of the Mathematics have been taught in my class: this was done, in part, I believe, from the difficulty of finding a sufficient number of hours for accomplishing that object, in the elementary Mathematical class, while the other duties of the class were also discharged. Originally, the same Professor carried on the class through the second, third, and fourth years; what he could not overtake of the mathematical department in the second year he executed before he began the Natural Philosophy course of the third year; and what he could not accomplish of the Natural Philosophy course in the third year he performed before he entered upon the Moral Philosophy course of the fourth year. I have found, however, since I became Professor of Natural Philosophy, the subject growing so much upon me, that it is very difficult indeed to obtain time for the discharge of my duty, both in Natural Philosophy and in Mathematics. In the mathematical department I have to prepare questions to be solved by the students, which must be previously worked by myself, and varied every year, as far as possible, to prevent the students of one class from borrowing the solutions of those of another. I have to do the same with regard to all the numerical questions in Natural Philosophy, which I prescribe in the evening, to be solved before I meet with the class next afternoon, In the Natural Philosophy class, I must spend at least an hour, sometimes more, in getting ready the apparatus, and in arranging and putting up the diagrams necessary for the lectures in the forenoon. In like manner, in the afternoon, towards the close of the session, I must often be an hour in the class-room before the meeting, for similar purposes; and in the evening, when I begin the astronomical part of the course, I must be frequently engaged an hour, and often more, in attending the students. All this duty is very oppressive, and I would humbly suggest to the Commissioners, that it would be better, in all respects, that I were relieved from that part of my labour, which consists in teaching the higher Mathematics, and that the Natural Philosophy Professor were confined entirely to his o vn subject. The present system is a relic of the old curriculum, which I think ought to be given up, and more time allowed for the discharge of the duties of the Natural Philosophy class. Have you any thing to suggest, connected with the general course of study in the College?—I have some diffidence in entering upon a subject, connected more with the classes of my colleagues than with my own; but if an answer is expected, I would humbly suggest, that two hours of Latin in the week are by no means sufficient for the first Humanity class ; |