and that, if the present system is continued in the College, of having three meetings in the day for the first session, the morning hour might be appropriated to Latin; and with regard to Greek, I should humbly conceive, that, during the second session, it would be for the advantage of the students if an hour were regularly devoted to Greek every day, and that the morning hour should be thus employed. I suppose the Professor of Mathematics has mentioned, that in the arrangement contemplated, respecting the higher Mathematics during the third year, two meetings a day for Mathematics the second year would be all that he could take; and thus the Professor of Greek might easily obtain the morning hour during the second year for a higher Greek class.

Will you state to the Commissioners the course of study you follow in conducting your own class?—The Natural Philosophy class has three regular meetings every lawful day, Saturday excepted. At the morning meeting, before breakfast, the principles of conic sections, spherical trigonometry, and fluxions, are explained and illustrated; the lessons on those subjects are prescribed at one meeting, and prepared by the students at night, and examined next morning.

Are those imperative upon the students?—They are. We are fortunately so circumstanced, that no student ever thinks of keeping his seat when he is called up, whether he has any thing to say or not; he always attempts to give the best answer in his power. That morning hour is not a full hour, is it ?-It is not.

Is it more, in point of fact, than half an hour?-I am generally with the class about thirty-five minutes; but I cannot be more, on account of the time requisite for prayers. The calling of the catalogue in the Public School before prayers every day takes up about ten minutes.

Have the prayers become an encroachment upon that hour?-So far from the prayers having become an encroachment upon that hour, the time is now much longer than it was when I was a student at College, forty years ago; for after prayers, the Masters at that time generally attended in the public school before they entered their own class-rooms; and if they engaged in conversation, they sometimes extended it to the three-quarters past eight; but now, if the prayer is not long, we generally have thirty-five minutes, so that I can reckon invariably upon an half-hour.

Will you state the general nature of your course?—In the forenoon, from eleven to twelve o'clock, the principles of Natural Philosophy, comprehending General Physics, Dynamics, Mechanics, Hydrostatics, Pneumatics, Acoustics, Optics, Electricity, Magnetism, and Astronomy (Galvanism being now treated of by the Professor of Chemistry), are explained, either by reading a written lecture, or more generally by extemporaneous speaking from notes. Whenever the subjects will admit of it, they are illustrated, either by mathematical deduction or by the exhibition of mechanical contrivance. In the afternoon meeting, from three to four o'clock, numerical questions, arising from the preceding lectures, are dictated, to be answered at night, and the solutions to be examined next afternoon. The students are also, every afternoon, examined respecting their knowledge of the principles explained in the forenoon. Two years ago, the Professor of Natural Philosophy digested the whole of the heads of his lectures, in the form of a series of questions, which were printed and delivered to the students at the beginning of the course; they found answers to those questions on hearing the lectures. This plan affords the Professor an easy mode of ascertaining their acquirements, by requiring them to get a satisfactory answer to each question, and he has found this method a very powerful mean of exciting attention to the lectures.

Have you a copy of those questions?—I have.-(The Witness delivered in the same:) It is interleaved, for the purpose of taking down any numbers that the students might not easily recollect. It is a first attempt, and therefore not quite so accurately executed as I could wish; but I have found great advantage from it, and I think the students have done so likewise. Towards the close of the session, I give an extra hour for preparing the class for the public examination, and, as already mentioned, for viewing the celestial bodies.

How often have you meetings for Astronomy?-In the evening, I make a point of shewing the students all the planets that are visible at the time; and therefore, taking perhaps a third of the class each evening, it requires several nights to accomplish my object: every planet, or perhaps every two, take a night before they can be exhibited to one division; and again, the pointing out the constellations to them occupies considerable time. I shew them also the double stars and the nebulous stars, as far as the power of the telescope will go. For these purposes, I am sometimes engaged two hours in the evening. Many of the other students come, besides the students of the class; they are attracted by curiosity, and as I never refuse gratifying them, I am often a considerable time employed.

Is your Observatory completed?-It is not; and, if it were entirely completed, there must be some little time intervening before we can place the instruments, the new lime having a pernicious effect upon them.

By whom were the instruments presented to the University?-We have a very valuable equatorial instrument, presented to the University by His Grace the late Chancellor (the late Duke of Gordon); and I have a promise of a transit instrument from my friend Dr. George Morison, Minister of Banchory, Davenick.

When the Observatory is completed, are any lectures upon Practical Astronomy contemplated?What I propose would be, to take the students that have gone through the course, the students of the fourth class who have studied Natural Philosophy, and shew them the way of taking transits, and finding by the equatorial the planets in the day-time ;

University of
Aberdeen.

King's College.
Professor Paul,

17 September 1827.

University of
Aberdeen.

King's College,
Professor Paul.

but that can only be done with two or three at a time, and as it will occupy a part of the Natural Philosophy Professor's time, I think it right, that on that account, as well as for the reasons above mentioned, my labour in teaching Mathematics should cease.

Do you find, generally speaking, that the students, when they enter your class, have an adequate knowledge of Mathematics?-By no means; my class comes too soon in the course for that. The students have only been one year at Mathematics; and although 17 September 1827. the Professor of Mathematics is very active, and the students very industrious, yet the extent to which he can carry them is by no means sufficient. I teach what I can myself, but then it comes in too tardy a manner; before fluxions can be taught, I am nearly at the end of my course. In employing the principles of spherical trigonometry, I endeavour to apply them both to astronomical and geographical purposes as I go along, and I am thus sometimes obliged to anticipate part of my astronomical course. A great object with me is to shew the practical utility of every thing taught, and hence the numerical questions that are prescribed.

With a view to obviate the difficulties you now state, would you propose that the class of Natural Philosophy should be taken in the fourth session ?—There would be a difficulty at first in making the change, in so far as the Moral Philosophy Professor would have, for that session, a class composed of students both of the third and fourth year, while the Natural Philosophy Professor would have no class, and be deprived of half his income; but subsequently the change would be beneficial to the Natural Philosophy class. Some might think that the Moral Philosophy course would thus not only be too soon introduced, but thereby have to struggle against the exertions made by the students in the attainment of the higher Mathematics, and that in this way it might lose as much as the other would gain.

If the Professor of Mathematics taught the second Mathematical class, they would only attend there one year?-That would not better the matter, except by relieving one from the burthen, or imposing that burthen upon a person better qualified to undertake it than the Professor of Natural Philosophy, who has a subject of sufficient range for all his powers.

What remedy would you propose?—I do not know any remedy, except giving the students such a foundation of Mathematics, before they leave the Natural Philosophy class, that those who chose might prosecute the subject by themselves after leaving College.

Do you consider there would be any advantage in the students being initiated in Mathematics before they came to College at all?-I think there would be great advantage in that if the parochial schoolmasters were capable of undertaking the task, a great deal might be done. Arithmetic, and the branches of Algebra, might be taught. Much might be done also in Euclid-the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth books, might be all gone over in the country; it is a waste of time, to send pupils to College for that purpose. As matters are now, is there not much danger that many of the students may lose the advantage of your course, from a want of the knowledge of Mathematics?-I endeavour to suit my illustration to their extent of knowledge, and I work with the tools that I have as well as I can; that is to say, I illustrate the subject by what they do know. I take care to arrange my course in such a way as that it shall be beneficial to them; for example, I begin with the conic sections, and go over the properties of the parabola, before I treat of projectiles, that I may thus be enabled to illustrate the subject as well as I can; and so on, in other respects.

Might not the considerations that you have stated, rather suggest the addition of another year to the curriculum, so as to make it a course of five sessions, instead of four, especially as so many of the young men come to this College at the age of 13 and 14, so that they would have two years of Mathematics before they came to you?-That would be a great improvement.

Do you see any serious obstacle to lengthening the course?-To the lengthening the course there is a very serious objection, arising from the poverty of our students; and when we look at the poorest of them, we find them very frequently most worthy of getting instruction.

Do not you conceive it would be a great improvement, for the promotion of education, that the system of parochial teaching should be rendered more effectual than it is?—Yes. I think the last Act of Parliament, by which permission was given to the Heritors to say what subjects should be taught, and in consequence of which it has happened that little more is required in some schools than the teaching of reading and writing, has been of great disadvantage to the education of the country. I am afraid, many of the parochial schoolmasters are in that state, that they could not teach the elements of Latin, or the elements of Greek, or those of Mathematics.

Can you state what proportion of the students come from the parochial schools?— They almost entirely come hither from parochial schools. We have, perhaps, in this little village, only three or four students at most connected with it; very few belonging to Aberdeen attend here, and these only for the sake of the bursaries.

The same objection, it is presumed, would apply to lengthening the session?-The objection to lengthening the session is the poverty of the students; and there is an objection, in our present way of going on, upon another ground, that with respect to the very diligent and the very active students; before the end of March, it is astonishing to see the change in their countenances; and it often happens, that nothing affords me more pleasure than to know that they have got home with their lives. They all attend four, some of them five meetings a day; we all prescribe tasks to be performed at night, and, besides, some of them attend French and Elocution classes, for which also they have

every

University of
Aberdeen.

King's College.

Professor Paul.

lessons to prepare, so that a young man that is disposed to do his duty, and willing to acquire information, is hardly ever in bed till two or three o'clock in the morning. It may be supposed that the Professors are averse to the lengthening of the session, as an inconvenience to themselves; for my own part, I would much rather teach an hour day for nine months, than have my present labour. The hours that I am in the class with my students, if extended to an hour a day, would at least amount to 45 or 46 weeks in the year. It appears that the candidates for degrees in Arts are examined by the Professor of 17 September 1827.the third class only; how long has that been the practice?-It has been the practice since I was a student at College myself; how much longer, I cannot say. It took its rise, I imagine, from a very excellent principle, namely, that a person having no interest in the fees paid by the graduates, and who knew nothing of them, otherwise than by the examination, should inquire whether they were prepared for receiving the degree. Hence, when every Professor carried on his class for three or four years, the Professor of the fourth class sent his students to be examined by the Professor of the third class, who knew nothing of them till they came to the examination. Since the system, however, has been changed, and the classes fixed, I know just as much about the students of the fourth class as their own Professor does, because they have passed through my own class.

The Commissioners understand that that examination is not before the other Professors? -No; it has always been private since I have been acquainted with the College; and I remember at this moment, as well as I remember anything, what were the questions put to myself when I passed through that ordeal: the examinations by the Professor were wholly upon mathematical subjects. Since I have been ordered by the College to perform the duty, I have examined the students both in Mathematics and Natural Philosophy: the examination, to be sure, is not long, nor is it very difficult: and in those examinations, I have always asked questions that it would be a shame for the candidates not to know. I have sometimes asked difficult questions, but I have never seen or heard of any one cast in consequence of this examination.

Is there any examination in Classical Literature?—No.

Or in Moral Philosophy?—No.

Do you not think it would be a preferable mode, that there should be an open examination, before all the Professors, in all the branches?—I have peculiar views with regard to those examinations. I would conceive it to be a preferable mode, if the plan were adopted, which I understand is followed at Cambridge, that every public examination, whether for degrees or not, should consist of a series of questions, prepared beforehand, every candidate getting the questions, and having a fixed time to answer them: the candidates to be afterwards arranged in point of merit, according to the number of questions they have answered. I would consider this as a fairer way than oral examination, because you then see why the candidate has received his honour; you see the questions that have been laid before him; you see the answers that have been returned; and you have a record of his talents exhibited, which might be kept in all the classes, and become matter of future reference.

Would you propose that to be done under the eye of the Professor ?-Yes. The students should be enclosed in a room, without any books, to answer those questions; the superintending Professor taking care that no one receives assistance from his neighbour, or refers to a book. This plan of examination I conceive to be important, because I know there are young men who, when a question is suddenly put to them, are embarrassed, their recollection not serving them; and hence they make a worse figure than they ought to do from their real acquirements; while, on the other hand, there is sometimes a hardihood, in certain cases, that enables a young man to get through better than another, even when he has inferior acquirements.

Do you not conceive that the plan you suggest would raise very much the character of a degree in Arts in the estimation of the public?-I think it would.

Do you conceive that that kind of examination would have the effect of deterring young men from soliciting a degree in Arts?-I cannot say as to that: there are two things that deter a young man from asking a degree; in the first place, he may not be able to pay the fee, and in the next place, he might be afraid of the examination; there are many young men at College, that do not choose to take out a degree, because their friends will not permit them.

As a degree became more valuable, would it not become a greater object of solicitude? -It ought to be so.

Do you still confer the degree of Master of Arts, as well as other degrees, upon individuals who have not studied at this University, and whose personal attendance you do not require?—Yes.

In those instances, is not the academical honour bestowed upon the opinion of others, from whom you take certificates?—Very often.

Do you confer the degree of Master of Arts upon individuals who have not attended. any University at all? There are, perhaps, cases of that kind, though I think the regulations with regard to Scotch students always require that they should have attended a University.

In the case of Scotch students, do you require that they shall have attended a complete course?-I think so, as far as I recollect.

Then, a degree in Arts and in Divinity is bestowed upon a person not belonging to the Established Church of either country, at whatever seminary or school in England he has been educated; but yet it is refused, although he may have attended the College of the Associated Synod in Scotland?-I do not recollect that; I know we have refused

University of
Aberdeen.

King's College.

Professor Paul.

degrees in Divinity in my time to Dissenters in England, upon the ground that they were Dissenters; we have conferred degrees of Laws upon them, and degrees in Medicine, and degrees in Arts.

Have you not, in point of fact, conferred the degree of Doctor of Divinity upon members of the Associated Synod?-Not in my time, as far as I recollect. I know that the University has conferred degrees in Divinity upon Dissenters in England, many years 17 September 1827. ago, but not since the new regulation was adopted. There is one change in our system, which I omitted to mention at the proper time, that would, in my opinion, be beneficial, and that is with regard to candidates at the public competition for bursaries; they appear here sometimes with a small chest full of books, in the consulting and reading of which they sometimes sit till near midnight. By permitting them to bring books with them, a young man that is thoroughly versed in his grammar has no advantage over others. Were they deprived of books, they would not know the grammar, nor the genders and declensions of nouns, nor the conjugations and flexions of verbs, unless they had the rules by heart.

Is that regulated by the Senatus?-It has been the use and practice to bring books. If that were brought before the Senatus Academicus, might it not be regulated by them?-Unless it were also the practice in the other seminaries of Scotland, it would be disagreeable for us to pursue a plan different from that universally adopted.

Would you preclude them from bringing dictionaries?—Yes; the dictionary gives them the gender and declension of the noun, and the conjugation of the verb.

Would you have them depend entirely upon their own resources?—Yes. It would be thought very strange to hear a student of the fourth class saying a piece of Latin, and if his Professor asked him the analysis or parsing of a particular word, to find he was ignorant of it. Yet this is sometimes the case, even with Bursars, arising, no doubt, from the slavish dependence on books in which they have been educated. Have you any other suggestions to make?-No.

Have you ever turned your attention to the probable advantages of the union of the two Colleges, to be regulated in such a way as to be least exceptionable to the interests of all parties concerned, either by incorporating the two Colleges, or by uniting them in one University? There is one objection that might be urged to making of the two but one seminary, having but one Professor of Greek, one of Humanity, one of Natural Philosophy, &c.; and it is this, that whenever a class is taught by examinations, it never can be so well taught, if it is very numerous, as when it is less so. I recollect that the first class I had here, when I was assistant to Professor Duncan, consisted of 22 students, and I could examine them more thoroughly than I can examine the classes of 50 or upwards, which I now generally have. When I do all that I can, perhaps I do not examine strictly above 10 or 12 in a day; there is always a considerable chance, therefore, of escape from examination, and that chance is always trusted to by the indolent. This appears to me to be the great objection, so far as the public is concerned. A Greek class of 160 would not be so well taught as a Greek class of 80. In those classes where there is nothing but lectures, such as the Divinity classes, a union might be effected with advantage.

Do you not think that the Medical Faculty might be united with advantage?—I think that the Medical Faculty might be very advantageously united. I think the Divinity Faculty, as it is at present, might be very advantageously united, and the Law faculty, as there is a Lecturer on Scottish Law and Conveyancing in the Marischal College, and a Professor of Civil Law in this University.

To aid that arrangement, would you propose that the two Colleges should form but one University?—Yes; but that the Colleges of Arts, where the instruction is carried on principally by examinations, should be separate, with a view to make the examinations stricter. Might not those objects be attained by having but one College, but having two Professors in those branches where you think it would be desirable?--That would be much the same.

Are you aware of any advantages arising from the emulation that may subsist between the two Colleges at present?-I think there is a great advantage to the public; however much I may be impressed with a sense of duty and honour, my interest is also materially concerned to do my duty well, because if I do not, there is another Professor of the same branch, who would carry off my pupils. The public have an advantage in having two establishments of the same kind, to either of which they can send their young men.

But you think that might be limited to the faculty of Arts?-I think it might, because in the others the education is not carried on so completely in the way of examination, and because, both in Medicine and Divinity, they are almost united already.

Do you think that much advantage is derived from the distribution of prizes?—I think there is some advantage attending the distribution of prizes; but I have my doubts whether all the advantage is derived by permitting the students to distribute them, because there are times in which I see justice is not done in this way. They think it sufficient to give a student a prize in the Natural Philosophy Class, because he is a very good scholar; but to the same student they would deny a prize in the Greek Class, because they have given him one in the Natural Philosophy; which is a very bad reason, in my opinion.

Do you think the students in general determine rightly?-In general, I think the conclusion they come to is very good; but there is now and then a wayward vote given, for which one cannot see any good reason.

Are the prizes given upon the general estimate they form of the acquirements of the students, or upon their general behaviour?-The behaviour is taken into the account, but

the prize is awarded principally in consideration of their talents in executing the more difficult parts of the class-work; and many, I have no doubt, are swayed in their vote by the assistance the candidates may give them in preparing their lessons.

Are there not a part of the students in the class that are not competent to estimate the merits of the higher students?-I believe that often happens.

Do you know what induced the Senatus to adopt that mode?-They were guided very much by the example of Glasgow.

Was it at all with a view to avoid the invidious task of estimating the merits of the students?-I cannot say; perhaps it was partly so, and partly to avoid the great labour attached to the examination of exercises.

The Commissioners understand that no prizes are given for any individual performances or exercises, but for general proficiency?-None but the Huttonian prize.

Is it the practice of the students to ask for certificates at the end of the session?—It is a very common practice, and a practice attended with very good effects.

Do you vary the form of your certificate according to the merit of the student?—I always do; and when I see a young man trifling, and not disposed to attend, I sometimes caution him that in his certificate I would speak of him as he really was.

It is presumed, they are quite aware that their certificate must depend very much upon their own exertions?-Entirely. In order to do so, at the close of each session, in the list of my students, I put a mark to each name, by which I know what character is meant, as I could not recollect the more distant classes without it.

Is it from a comparison of those marks that you form your estimate of their merit?— Yes, after my memory has failed.

Do you conceive that it is an advantageous thing for the College, and for literature in general, that there should be so many bursaries as there are in the College?-I do not think there is any disadvantage attending it; some of my colleagues have thought that there was, but I cannot see it. There is sometimes a disadvantage attending getting a bursary at the beginning of the course, which must last during four years, whatever be the attention of the Bursar during the course.

Do they retain their bursaries, whatever be their qualification or disqualification?-A young man, perhaps, makes a very good figure at the competition, and he makes a very poor Greek scholar; and sometimes he makes a very good figure at the competition, and he is found to be a very bad scholar, either in Natural Philosophy or Mathematics. This I do not so much wonder at; but when he has made a good figure at the competition, why he should not be able to become a good Greek scholar I cannot see, except from indolence or inattention. In this way, a bursary may be worse than useless.

When a person receives a presentation to a bursary, are you in the habit of subjecting him to any examination before he enters upon the class?-Always.

If you found him unqualified, would you refuse to receive the presentation?-We have repeatedly done so; and we have sent back to the patron the written exercise which the Bursar produced, to satisfy him that the decision was just.

Is there any subsequent examination of his progress?—Yes; within the last two or three years we have examined all the Bursars at the beginning of each session, and we have found great advantage accruing from it.

Supposing you were to find any of them that had not improved, would that have any effect upon their retaining the produce of the bursary ?-It had this effect upon a student last year, that rather than submit to an examination of the same kind at the end of the session, of which he had been forewarned, he left the last moiety of his bursary in the hands of the College; and we agreed, that it should not be paid till he came back the ensuing session, and shewed, on examination, that he had made up his former deficiency; and we have on several occasions said to a student that he would get no part of his bursary till the close of the session, and that he should undergo a second examination, because we were not satisfied..

Have you been in the practice of granting dispensations to the children of parents of the Established Church from attending divine worship in the College?-We grant a dispensation to every student who brings a written order from his father or his guardian for that. purpose; if he say that he wishes him to attend any particular clergyman in Aberdeen, we have never refused it.

Are those applications numerous on the part of parents?-They are not very numerous from the Established Church. We make a distinction; if he enjoy a bursary, we do not consider him as entitled to request that dispensation.

Do you ever grant the dispensation upon the petition of the young men themselves?— No. It frequently happens, that when a young man is a Dissenter, and his friends are not near at hand, I have given a dispensation, when I get from Bishop Skinner, or from any respectable clergyman, a written document to show that the student is a hearer of his, and that he will be answerable for his attendance upon divine service. I like that rather better than a mere application from the parents, because the clergyman, when he has once certified, will take care that the student attend regularly; whereas, in the other case, he may get a dispensation, and not attend any place of worship.

Has it fallen frequently under your experience that young men have not attended any place of worship? I have been told so in a very few cases.

Do you insist upon Bursars attending the College Chapel, though they should be Dissenters?—No, we do not insist upon any Dissenter's attending.-(The Witness withdrew.)

University of
Aberdeen.

King's College.

Professor Paul.

17 September 1827.