his main assertions. The noble lord had not got rid of that; and if he would give him farther opportunities, he would give him an equally satisfactory answer. With respect to lieut. Johnson nothing irregular, except in his promotion, had taken place. He left the insinuation of personal enmity in the Admiralty against the noble lord to what he thought it deserved, the contempt of the House. Lord Cochrane admitted, that the hon. Secretary had contradicted his assertions, but he defied him to disprove one word contained in his Resolution. As the feelings of his brother officers might be excited by the statement of the hon. Secretary, who had stood forward in their defence though they had not been attacked, he would add again, that he had not even thought disrespectfully of any individual to whom the hon. Secretary had alluded. He admired the gallant conduct of capt. Broke, and asserted, that if the Admiralty did their duty, no 38 gun frigate of ours need shrink from a contest with the Americans. Sir F. Burdett complimented, his noble friend on his exertions to benefit a service of which he was so bright an ornament. What he had stated of abuses in the navy, was done with the hope that they would be corrected. The seaman could not have a more proper advocate; and if his noble friend's advice was attended to, instead of dissatisfaction, the result would be advan tageous to the navy. What improper motive could possibly be assigned to his noble friend? Every man must feel and acknowledge the importance of the services of captain Broke; particularly under the present circumstances; but where all concurred in the same feeling, it was not necessary for every person to take up the time of the House in praising undisputed merit. When it was found, that after long service, the seaman forgot every thing but his duty to his country, a strong reason was afforded for looking into his situation. The hon. Secretary had made an eloquent eulogium on the navy; but yet he refused a motion, the object of which was to do good to the relatives of our Mr. Alderman Atkins reprobated the brave seamen. Economy was an excellent conduct of the noble lord as a senator, as thing; but in such cases as this, a too much as he admired his gallantry as a close attention to it might be the worst of naval commander. He felt a strong in- practice. By greater liberality, bounty terest in the character of the British navy, money might be reduced, and, perhaps, both as an Englishman and a considerable the practice of impressment might be got ship owner, and he could not contain his rid of; for its necessity seemed only to indignation at seeing the attempts made to exist, because we did not give adequate degrade it. The noble lord wished to rewards. He was no patronizer of such prove, that after a certain time of life the misplaced economy. It was inconsistent seaman lost, in a great degree, his physical with the justice of the country, to dole out powers. But this charge he could dis- such miserable pittances to brave men. prove from his own personal knowledge: There might be unmerited pensions and for one of the disabled and decrepid sea- sinecures, the retaining of which prevented men, as they were called, was brought be the just discharge of well founded obligafore him in his character of a magistrate tions. It might be impossible to reward the other day, charged with assaulting the deserving, while a corrupt borough in. some scoundrels in the city of London influence prevailed. Let that be stopped, his own defence. When called upon for and some enlargement made for the sake of his vindication, he said, "Sir, they wanted justice, and the nation would reap the to rob me, but I grappled with them, Sir; benefit. I grappled with one of them with one hand, and with the other hand I grappled with the other." Where, then was the proof of the diminution of physical power in this superannuated seaman? The worthy alderman proceeded in the same stile of observation at considerable length, and sat down, begging pardon of the House, for presuming to trouble them so long. Lord Cochrane repelled with contempt the accusation made against him of endeavouring to excite dissatisfaction in the navy. The division being called for, no Ayes went out; there were 63 members remaining in the House. The motion was con sequently negatived. MOTION RESPECTING THE SUPPLIES FROM 1803 TO 1813.] The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved, "That the Supplies voted for the service of the United Kingdom, for the several years from 1803 to 1813, inclusive, may be stated as follows; viz. ARMY (including Extraordinaries)... | 11,786,000 19,108,000 18,581,000 18,507,000 19,875,000 19,439,000 21,144,000 20,337,000 21,286,000 25,264,000 33,089,000| NAVY ORDNANCE SUBSIDY VOTE OF CREDIT......................... Total 180,000 700,000 1,380,000 2,400,000 2,400,000 3,400,000 26,544,000 39,442,000 42,684,000 44,430,000 47,531,000 47,023,000 51,495,000 50,465,000 53,929,000 57,893,000 71,550,000 Proportion of Ireland 2/17. * Anno 1805, including £. 1,000,000 voted for repayment to the East India Company for Expenses incurred by them in India upon the Public Account. † Anno 1806, ditto...... £. 1,000,000 ditto. Anno 1813, ditto...... £. 2,000,000 ditto. And a debate arising thereupon; it was ordered, That the said debate be adjourned till the 22d inst. The adjourned debate upon the motion, made upon Friday last, respecting the Supplies voted for the Navy, Army, Ordnance, Vote of Credit, and Subsidies for Great Britain and Ireland, from 1805 to 1813, was also further adjourned to the same day. be taken to guard against any such impropriety as the hon. member seemed to apprehend. Here the conversation dropped. Mr. Horner proposed that one of the chaplains at each of the three presidencies in India, should be a clergyman of the church of Scotland, enjoying the same al lowances as the other chaplains, and subject to the jurisdiction of the Presby tery of Edinburgh. The hon. and learned member mainly rested the propriety of this proposition of the agents of the India Company who belonged to the church of Scotland. EAST INDIA COMPANY'S CHARTER BILL.] On lord Castlereagh's motion for the recommittal of this Bill, Mr. R. Smith expressed a wish that the question should not be gone into at so late an hour, but that it should be postponed until to-mor- Lord Castlereagh suggested to the hon. row, as the discussion was likely to be and learned gentleman, the expediency prolonged; but lord Castlereagh pressing of rather submitting his proposition upon the order of the day, the House accord-bringing up the Report, or upon the third ingly resolved into the committee. Mr. R. Smith proposed a provision, reserving to parliament the right at any time pending the continuance of the charter to interpose its legislative authority in any manner it should deem expedient, in order to provide for the happiness or good government of the people of India, without however prejudicing the profits of the India Company. Without this amendment, the hon. member observed, that according to the terms of the Bill, a power would be granted to the executive government which was denied to parliament. Lord Castlereagh said, that the clause. which the hon. member proposed to amend, was exactly in the same words as the former Act, and that he saw no necessity whatever for the proposition.—It was rejected without a division. Upon the clause respecting the proposed religious establishment in India being read, Mr. R. Smith hoped, upon the same principle, that the Company was to have the authority of sending home any religious missionaries who might conduct themselves improperly, while such conduct was not at all distinctly specified in the Bill, and of course a great latitude of authority was created, the crown would be invested with the power of recalling any bishop who might be guilty of improper conduct. Mr. Bathurst observed, that any bishop who should violate the laws would be as amenable to those laws as any other individual in India. Mr. M. Sutton thought, that in the patent appointing the bishop, provisions might ( VOL, XXVI, ) reading of the Bill, than pressing it into discussion on this stage. At the same time he was free to say, that his objections to the arrangement proposed, were not at all removed, but rather increased by what had fallen from the hon. and learned gen、 tleman. Mr. Abercromby supported the proposition of Mr. Horner. After some conver, sation between Mr. Forbes, Mr. Bathurst, lord Castlereagh, Mr. Grant, Mr. Robin son, Mr. R. Smith, and Mr. J. Smith, the House divided. AMERICAN COTTON.] Mr. Alderman Atkins moved the order of the day for committing the Cotton Bill, for the purpose of proposing the postponement of any farther proceedings upon the subject until the next session. But while he thus manifested his unwillingness to press the measure at this advanced period of the present session, against opinions and considerations which had due weight on his mind, he had no inclination whatever to give it up. On the contrary, he hoped hereafter to be enabled to bring the subject in an unobjectionable form under the consideration of the House. He thought it most desirable to remove doubts at home, and to convince America that our manufacturers could dispense with its cotton; and our ability to do so could not be questioned by any one competent to judge of the produce of our own colonies, which (4F) produce was amply sufficient for our sup. ply. In fact, above 14,000 bales of cotton had within a recent period been imported from our colonies. But ample information upon this important subject would, he trusted, be collected before the next session, for the satisfaction of the House and the country. Lord Castlereagh expressed his happiness that the worthy alderman was disposed to postpone this measure, which so many members, not at all repugnant to its principle, were unwilling to have passed at this late period of the session. The order of the day being read, the committal of the Bill was postponed to this day three months. STIPENDIARY CURATES' BILL.] The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved that the Report of this Bill be now taken into further consideration. Mr. Western opposed the Bill. He said the provisions of it would, in many instances, contribute to the oppression of those very individuals whom it was the objects of the Bill to relieve. It also established a precedent for the violation of church property. The clergy held their property on the condition of providing for the cures; but when they did so their property could not be interfered with by the House. Mr. Thompson approved of the Bill. Non-residence was a crying evil in this -country, and had given rise to infidelity, contempt of religion, and numerous other bad consequences. What care could the non-resident clergyman take of souls when he did not see them. He was no friend to tythes, though he thought the clergy ought to be suitably provided for. The clergy of Scotland did not desert their parishes as was done in this country, and the good consequences were visible. Mr. Courtenay opposed the Bill. He did not think that it would be advantageous to the church, that a new order of curates should start up who looked more to the present stipend, than to rising to benefices. Mr. Serjeant Onslow supported the Bill. He did not see how improving the actual situation of the curates could prevent their rising in time to benefices. Mr. Pole Carew disapproved of the Bill. In his opinion, this profession, like all others, should have its great rewards. Here, however, what was a penalty against the incumbent, was a benefit to the curate. His objection to the Bill was this, that while it went to prevent a plurality of liv ings, it did not go to prevent a plurality of curacies. His proposition would be, that no clergyman should serve more than one cure. Mr. H. Thornton agreed that the Bill was not without its defects; the object, however, was to effect something more than they now had, and to improve, as far as they could, the character of the clergy. The order of things now was, to act by deputy: this disposition he was anxious should be limited and controuled; and if the higher orders of the clergy were suffered to perform that duty by deputy, to the greater length would this mischievous practice be carried. Mr. Wetherall objected, that while the whole professed end and scope of this Bill was to secure the residence of the clergy, there was not a single clause to compel the residence of the curates, who were alone to be benefited by the present Bill. Mr. Wilberforce observed, that the strongest argument against the Bill, was, that it was not perfect. This, he admitted; but it, nevertheless, became the duty of those who were friendly to the residence of the clergy to devise the best substitute in their power for such a deficiency. Bishop Burnet considered nonresidence as perfectly monstrous, and what would bring the church of England to ignominy and contempt. To avoid this the present Bill was admirably calculated, and, as such, it had his support. Mr. J. Smith expressed his disapprobation of the Bill, which was quite dissimilar to that of the late Mr. Perceval, which was introduced to attain the same object. For, by the Bill of Mr. Perceval, livings of 400l. a-year only were to be affected, while the Bill under consideration, at the same time that it left the higher livings untouched, fell most oppressively on those smaller livings, which formed one-third of the whole of the livings belonging to the established church; therefore the advocates for Mr. Perceval's Bill were in consistency bound to oppose this measure. Another objection to this Bill was, that it obliged the incumbent to pay the gross amount of the living to the curate, instead of the net amount-thus compelling him to pay more than the incumbent actually received, for he would have to discharge the usual deductions of land-tax, incometax, and poor's rate, out of his own pocket. Upon the whole, he looked on this Bill as such a radical sweeping alteration in the system of our church establishment, that those by whom it was brought forward and supported, could not in future consistently resort to the language of alarm against any proposition of radical change, or, as it might be called, reform, in any other part of our system. Mr. Abercromby argued in favour of the Bill, and hoped the House would take care to have it adequately executed by the bishops, who must themselves, as he apprehended, feel gratified in having the provisions of such a measure rendered as imperative as possible. On a division the numbers were- Majority 37 7 -30 The House accordingly proceeded in the farther consideration of the Report. Mr. Wetherall moved an amendment, that instead of the phrase " gross amount," adverted to by Mr. Smith, the words "net amount," should be inserted. After a short conversation between Messrs. Robert Smith, Pole Carew, Stephen, and J. Smith, the Chancellor of the Exchequer suggested the propriety of rather submitting his proposition upon the third reading of the Bill, which suggestion was acceded to. The Report was agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. ADMIRALTY REGISTRAR'S BILL.] The Bill was read a third time, and on the motion that it do pass, Mr. H. Martin declared that he could not allow it to pass without entering his protest against it. For although the measure was brought forward by himself, its object was so much counteracted by a clause inserted in it on the motion of the noble lord, that he entertained serious objections to its enactment. By this clause the present Registrar, lord Arden, was entirely exempted from the provisions of the Bill, and the principle was recognized that that noble lord was warranted in the practice of appropriating for his own private profit the money of suitors in the Admiralty court, which money was merely entrusted to him for safe custody. Such a deviation from the practice of the court of Chancery, for instance, and also from what he conceived to be the duty of every public functionary, ought not, in his opinion, to be sanctioned by any legislative enactment, and therefore he opposed it. Lord Castlereagh spoke in favour of the clause. He contended that the office was granted in the nature of a freehold, and that the advantage of being banker to the court of Admiralty, formed no inconsiderable part of the emoluments. He approved much of the Bill, but at the same time he thought it much improved by the clause added to it. Sir S. Romilly condemned the attempt. to pass a Bill, so materially altered as the present was by the clause under considera tion, at a time when so small a portion of the House was present, especially as the Bill without that clause had been printed, and it might be supposed by many who were absent, that the Bill about to be passed, was the same as the one already printed. He contended, that its operation would be to make that legal, which in the opinion of every lawyer, was decidedly illegal, namely, the application of suitors' money to the interest of the officers in whose hands it was lodged. He wished it, therefore, considering the importance and magnitude of the alteration, to stand over till the next session. Mr. Stephen contended, that the practice of a banker (and the Registrar was the banker of the Admiralty) using the money in his hands to his own benefit, provided, however, that it was forthcoming when ever required by the parties interested, was not illegal. The question, indeed, before the House seemed to be, whether the bank of England should enjoy the interest, or the individual who now enjoys it. He should prefer the latter, and there fore he should support the clause. Mr. Courtenay contended that the situation of the registrar of the Admiralty was analogous to that of a master in Chancery, he therefore objected to the clause which had been added on the motion of lord Castlereagh, and said he should oppose the passing of the Bill as it stood, as it would furnish argument that the use of suitors' money by the Registrar of the Admiralty was legal, and because he could not consent that a measure thought necessary should be postponed indefinitely for the advantage of an individual, as it would be by the clause inserted. Sir J. Nicholl supported the clause, deferring the operation of the Bill during the life of lord Arden, and upheld the legality of the use made of suitors' money by the Registrar, and declared, that he should vote for the Bill as it stood. |