tions, but more particularly that respect ing the China trade. that the government of India was so bad a thing, that the Company was entitled to a bonus of half a million annually to induce them to continue it. He concluded by affirming his strict impartiality. Mr. Baring, after the most attentive inquiry, was convinced that the confinement of the China trade to the Company was highly expedient, but before he en- Mr. Ponsonby objected to this monopoly tered upon this part of the subject he vin- entirely and in point of principle, he dicated the advocates of the Company had no doubt, those who proposed a more from the assertion that they had employed limited period agreed with him: for, unan unwarrantably imperious tone in pro- less the thing was improper in itself, why claiming the merits of the present rulers continue it for ten rather than twenty of India. In the committee, several years? Their object no doubt was, to progrounds were taken to prove, that the mo- duce a compromise between the governnopoly of the China trade ought to be ment and the Company, which he could continued, but principally it was urged not approve. He did not mean to rethat the commerce with the Chinese proach the Company; but when it was could only be conducted with safety and said, that the beneficial regulations in readvantage through the Company by means gard to India originated with them, he of a monopoly; that the general princi- could not help just reminding those who ples of commercial dealings could not to made that assertion, that the Company them be applied; that their government, exerted all its force and influence to optheir manners, and their jealousies were pose regulations which their servants reanomalous, and that no traffic could be commended. He would ask what had conducted with individuals in the usual been their disposition towards that excelroutine of trade. It was known to all who lent man, sir Philip Francis, when he sugknew any thing upon the subject, that the gested those reformations which Mr. Fox emperor of China, in consequence of his and Mr. Burke had been so instrumental fixed opinion that commerce was unne- in carrying into execution? But then it cessary, had confined it to one port and was argued, that the Chinese would only to one season, and required that some os- trade with the Company: he really never tensible responsible person, such as the heard before that one of the peculiarities agents of the Company, should be present of the Chinese was, that they would trade to conduct it. Another motive for con- with nobody but monopolists. fining this branch of the trade, was the traded with the Americans, and the Amefacilities obtained and employed by the ricans were not monopolists. The monoCompany for introducing British manu- poly, it ought to be observed, did not factures in large quantities among the na- confine itself to the article of tea, it extives, facilities that could not be allowed tended to silks and other commodities. to private adventurers. A third argument It had been alleged that the monopoly of for this resolution was, that if it were not the China trade was necessary to the due adopted, the revenue would most mate- administration of India; but he believed rially suffer, and in support of this posi- there were other reasons. The Company tion, Mr. Baring referred to the testimony had ostentatiously stated, that they were of several witnesses who had asserted, that losers on their Indian trade: but it was the defalcation might perhaps be to the singular that they should be so anxious to extent of three-fourths of the present pro- continue a trade by which they were duce of the tax upon tea. The only losers. They, however, demanded the question in his mind was, whether the go- monopoly of the China trade, in order vernment had made a sufficiently advan- that though they lost by their India trade tageous bargain for the country? If it they might be gainers on the whole. were true (as he believed it was,) that if But there was another reason: perhaps put up to auction, half a million per an- if they were to look very closely into the num might be obtained for this exclusive affairs of the Company, they might find trade, it might be asked, why is not the that the Company would hardly be able East India Company called upon to give to pay their dividends of ten per cent. on what would willingly be afforded by their stock, unless they obtained this others? To this question he had not heard trade and to this consideration the geany answer completely satisfactory, and neral interests of the country must be sathe formation of a contract so disadvan-crificed. Another reason was, that the tageous to the nation, seemed to imply patronage of China was more valuable They while the Company had established its character there for respectability and integrity. than any other. The appointments there were a sure road to fortune, and it was not surprising that the directors should be anxious to retain this certain mode of providing for their relations and friends. But this was no reason why the public should grant this advantage. It had been then argued, that the revenue would suffer. But he always understood that the best means of increasing the revenue was to throw open the trade. It was bad political economy to restrain the general im. provement of trade for the sake of raising a little more money upon a particular article. In regard to the necessity of having factories, and persons of authority and dignity in China, he asked whether his Majesty might not send a consul and dignified officers as well as the Company. The political ought to be separated from the commercial character of the government, instead of allowing the Company to carry it on in the several capacities of sovereign, trader, and monopolist. Mr. Bathurst observed, that nobody had ever contended, that the Chinese would only trade with a monopolist. The argument was, that the trade could be best carried on by a great Company, from the peculiar character of the Chinese. They might trade with private individuals; but then circumstances were more likely to occur to annihilate the trade entirely. The American trade with China, was therefore much more precarious than our's. The right hon. gentleman, who spoke last, had likewise forgot this material circumstance, that the Company had the power of introducing our commodities to China to a much greater extent than any private individuals could do. The stamp of the Company was the passport for these goods. The confidence which was reposed in the Company, was among such a people of the highest importance, and we ought not rashly to deprive ourselves of the advantages resulting from that circumstance. The Company had introduced payments in British commodities into a country which had always before been considered as the peculiar drain of the precious metals. In regard to the remark about the factories and officers of the Company in China, he agreed that his Majesty might send a consul; but he denied that in China he would be held in so much consideration as an officer of the Company. In a place where our country was known, the feeling would be different; but in China our country was but very little known, (VOL. XXVI. ) Mr. Ponsonby denied that he had ever said the monopoly of the China trade was intended as a compensation for the mismanagement of Indian affairs. He had merely observed, that it was given as a compensation for the trade to India, which was represented to be a losing trade. When it was asserted by the right hon. gentleman, that there was a risk of losing the trade to China, by the misconduct of the private trader, he could by no means agree to such a proposition. He could not view the private traders in so dangerous a light. But if, as the right hon. gentleman had asserted, the Company had such immense advantages over the private trader; if, as he asserted, the Chinese would trade with none but the Company, why should a competition be opposed, which, if his argument were correct, could not at all injure the East India Company, because the natives would purchase from none but them? His argument, then, resolved itself into this, that great danger would arise from the misconduct of the private traders. Now, he never could admit the proposition, that the private traders were likely to conduct themselves in such a manner as would ruin their own interests, as well as those of the East India Company. Mr. Bathurst adverted to an instance in which a merchant sent out articles to China, equal to any exported by the East India Company, and by no means dearer, which he was unable to sell, the merchants declaring they would purchase only from the Company. It was true, there was no great competition; but this might be looked upon as a specimen of what was likely to be the result of trading speculations to that country. Mr. G. Phillips said, he should be glad to know, if goods were sent from this country by private merchants, with the same marks upon them as those made use of by the Company, would they not be received equally well as if they absolutely came from the India House? With respect to the facility of trading with China, he could state this fact to the House, that the first ship which reached the river of Canton from America, did not carry out specie enough to pay for her cargo; but the Hong merchants absolutely supplied the new traders with the means of purchasing the necessary commodities. It was the (2 K) Jand. Hong merchants who became responsible for the good conduct of the traders; and, if they were willing to become responsible for the Americans, he could see no difficulty to prevent their being equally friendly to the private merchants of EngThe sum paid to the country for this monopoly, was about 500,000l. per annum. He, and several friends of his, would be very happy to give twice that sum for such an advantage. By a reference to the London and New York Prices Current, a difference of no less than 85 per cent. would be found in the sale of teas of a similar quality. It might be said, that the American teas were of an inferior description; but certainly the Americans declared that they were of a superior quality, compared with those iniported into Great Britain. The hon. gentleman then adverted to the great profit which the Company made by allowing the commanders of their ships to traffic in tea; and those very commanders, after paying duty and all incidental expences, were such considerable gainers, as shewed at once the immense advantage which individuals would derive from a participation in the China trade. He then defended the character of the British merchant, the British seaman, and the British agent, who, for the purpose of shewing the danger which would result from a free trade, had been described as ruffians and raggamuffins; and in conclusion, argued at length to prove that the fears entertained of an increase of smuggling, if the trade were opened, were not well-founded. Mr. Forbes stated, that, according to the present policy of the Company, their commanders were not permitted to take out woollens, tin, and several other articles to China. He hoped this system would be abandoned, and that the commanders would be allowed to carry out as much British manufactures as possible. If permission were given, many of them, he believed, would dispose of eight or 10,000l. worth, on every voyage. Lord Milton, though he was willing to concede much to the East India Company, could by no means agree to their retaining the monopoly of the China trade. With respect to India, he allowed that a great deal was due to them: they had spent much treasure, and much blood had been spilt in securing that territory; but no argument of this kind applied to China. Those who called for the trade with that country must run the risk of a refusal on the part of the Chinese government. They, in fact, demanded nothing which the legislature could absolutely grant, as it ultimately depended on the will of others. To those who desired to have that trade confined to one port, as an emporium, he would put this question, whether it would not be better to extend the benefits of the trade to the whole country, than to restrain it to one particular point? An argument against opening the trade, had been deduced from the nature of the Chinese government, which was hostile to commerce; but was it not strange, that the Chinese government should permit the residence of the agents of a commercial company, and not suffer the agents of free traders and the representatives of a monarch, to come within their territories? The country could no longer avoid opening the trade, and the arguments of those who were for continuing the monopoly for five or ten years longer, would be as good at the expiration of that period as they were now. He would vote against the Resolution, in the hope, that the demand for British manufactures in China would, under a free trade, increase to an almost incalculable extent. Mr. Canning said, that he did not wish to enter into the subject, as it would be more convenient to discuss it in another stage; but as the Committee was likely to come to a vote on the Resolution, he wished to say, that if he did not vote against the Resolution now, he by no means engaged not to oppose the conti nuation of the China monopoly for an indefinite period, or even for six months after the expiration of the charter. All his vote would say was, that he did not wish immediately to abolish the monopoly. He was by no means convinced that the monopoly was necessary to China or to the India Company. America had carried on a large trade with China; in consequence of the war with that country a vacuum was created, which it would be necessary to fill up with free trade from Britain. He purposely abstained from entering into the question, but he would vote for the Resolution. Lord Milton said, this was the moment for throwing open the monopoly, when we were at war with America. General Gascoyne said he should vote for the Resolution, in the understanding that the nonopoly should be continued only for a short period. Mr. Finlay would also vote for it, on the consideration of there being no restriction in point of time. The Resolution was then put and carried without a division. Lord Castlereagh said, as the third Resolution embraced such an extensive field, there was little prospect of coming to any decision on it that night. As the Resolution was complex, it would be advisable to consider each provision as a separate question. He wished, therefore, to open the discussion with the first branch of the Resolution, and the debate on it might be carried on to a reasonable hour. He wished at present merely to call the attention of the House to those supplementary regulations in the Resolutions which did not stand in it as originally framed. One great feature, not in the former, was the restriction of the intercourse between the British and the people of India. This intercourse, he thought, should be subject to all those controuls which had been found adequate from time to time. One other leading branch of regulation was, with respect to the strengthening the hands of the Company, to enable them to guard against any abuse of intercourse. This principle existed in the law as it now stood. At present they could send home any person whom they conceived to be dangerous to the tranquillity of the country. He wished to follow the same principle, however, still farther, and to establish a proper controul over Europeans in the interior of the country, so that protection might be immediately given to the natives without the delay and inconvenience of an application to the supreme courts of the country. In the course of the Bill he would offer additional regulations for that purpose. He would proceed now to the particular branch of the Resolution. After a desultory conversation, in which lords Milton and Castlereagh, Messrs. Ponsonby, Robinson, C. Grant, Huskisson, Stewart Wortley, and Wynn, took a part, the several Resolutions, up to the 12th inclusive, were agreed to, with the exception of the 7th and 8th, which were postponed in consequence of a solicitude expressed to afford more time to the Court of Directors, and the shipping interest of this country, to consider these Resolutions which refer to the employment of India shipping. The 13th Resolution, which relates to the introduction of Christianity into India, was also postponed for further consideration, in consequence of their recent intro duction to the notice of the House. Upon the subject of these Resolutions lord Castlereagh expressed a wish that such a delicate question should be as little discussed in that House as possible, but that the arguments connected with it should by those who were agreed on the main points, be left to the discussion of that Board of Controul, which was invested with the power of superintending the government of India, by which Board he had no doubt that adequate provisions would be made to meet the views of the House. The House having resumed, the chairman reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again this day. HOUSE OF LORDS. Wednesday, June 2. IRISH MALT DUTIES BILL.] Upon the motion for the third reading of this Bill, The Marquis of Lansdown solemnly protested against the policy and justice of the measure, inasmuch as it would encourage the lower orders to relinquish the use of malt liquor, and have recourse to the use of spirituous liquors, He also contended that such an alteration in the habits of the people, would eventually produce great detriment to their health and their morals. In addition to these remarks, he further observed that the increase of the malt duties would consequently decrease the income of the revenue. He instanced this in the late increase of the malt duties in Ireland from 7s. to 10s. and also noticed the addition of persons in fever who entered the hospitals at the time. Increasing the duty to a greater amount would operate with the same pernicious tendency. Under these circumstances, he hoped their lordships would defer the third reading for three weeks longer, when he should have an opportunity of adducing such additional information as would convince them the measure was one of the greatest impolicy. The Earl of Liverpool regretted that the noble marquis had not taken an earlier opportunity of stating the objections which had now been proposed to their lordships" consideration. The 10s. duty, of which the noble marquis complained in Ireland, was 17. 58. in England. He did not apprehend the consequences which had been represented. He could also assure the noble marquis it was the intention of government to propose an additional duty on spirits, which he believed would counteract the anticipated evils of the present Bill. Upon the question being put, the Bill was ordered to be read a third time and passed. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Wednesday, June 2. The With every respect for the noble marquis's | mediately turn to that which those who insuggestion, he was convinced it would be terrogated him on the subject wished to impossible to relinquish the duties pro- see. This was not the way to do business. posed, and therefore he must persist in The contract stated to have been made moving that this Bill be read the third was in no respect satisfactory. There time. might be a contract, but there was no security; nothing to assure them that its conditions would be properly fulfilled. Every thing connected with the subject was irregular and unsatisfactory. greatest extravagance appeared in the building estimates. There were houses to be built for the turnkeys (three in number) and the expence was to be 9,6751. The turnkeys were thus to have a house worth 3,000l. each. The chaplain was also to have an expensive house built, and the house of the gaoler was to cost no less than 8,4751. This was an expence which, if it had appeared in the ordnance estimates, or in the army or navy estimates, that House would feel it to be its duty to institute some inquiry into the subject, and he thought it was that which in the present case ought not to be passed over. He did not object to building houses for the turnkeys, but he did object to building such as had been projected. The gaoler, if this plan was carried into effect, would be accommodated with a better house than a Lord of the Admiralty; for he believed his friend opposite, who was one of the lords of the Admiralty, was not provided with a house worth 8,4751. He wished a house to be built for the gaoler, and he wished that house to be KENT GAOL BILL.] Mr. Calcraft rose to bring forward the motion of which he had given notice for the minutes of evidence taken before the committee on the Kent Gaol Bill. He commenced by describing the plan on which it was intended to build the New Gaol, and proceeded to shew that the expence would be enormously great, and enormously more than was necessary. He then noticed the arts which had been resorted to, for the purpose of making this plan appear to be that of the magistrates of the county, though it by no means deserved that character, as the number of magistrates who had given it the sanction of their names, did not amount to thirty. Though the plan had been sent round by a special messsenger to the whole magistracy of the county, he (Mr. Calcraft), understood it had only gained the support of 22 of the magistrates. The present plan would, if carried into effect, cost the County 250,000l., while every thing that was requisite might be obtained at the ex-respectable, but he did not see that it pence of 100,000l. He admitted that a new gaol was wanted, but not such a one as it had been proposed to erect. It was not to the erection of a gaol that he objected, but to that wild and useless expenditure which was contemplated. He wished a prison to be built large enough to contain all the prisoners it was thought it might be necessary to send to it, but he did not wish one to be raised which would cover 18 or 19 acres of ground; and which would be large enough to hold a greater number of prisoners than had ever been confined at one time in the county. Why it had been proposed to build a prison which would contain so large a number of persons, he could not tell. When the question was put to the architect, he had answered that the number was taken from a book; and when asked where the book was, and desired to point out that of which he had spoken, his answer was, that the books were so large, he could not im was necessary for him to be better accommodated than the lords of the Admiralty. He then noticed the great increase of the county rates to meet this expence. These were raised from 10,8891.-to 36,476l. Those who were called upon to pay this, had heavy taxes to pay, which were imposed by the minister of the country, for the service of the state. Surely then, they ought to be protected against such excessive taxation by others. Nothing could be more offensive to the county of Kent, than to be taxed in this manner; and he could take upon himself to state, that the taxes thus laid on, caused more dissatisfaction than even the property tax. It was proper that the prison to be built should be airy, and spacious, but it was not necessary that it should occupy a domain of eighteen acres of land. This, he supposed, was to give sufficient space for all sorts of games to be carried on within it,. In this plan a |