EAST INDIA COMPANY'S AFFAIRS.] The order of the day being read, for the House to resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider further of the affairs of the East India Company, the House resolved itself into the said Committee, Mr. Lushington in the chair. Mr. Sullivan rose. He observed, that the propositions now before the Committee appeared to him to be consequences resulting from the Act of 1793, and the subsequent enlargement of the regulations which it established. The professed object of that Act was to open the trade with London to persons resident in India, through the shipping of the Company, and under certain limitations and restrictions. It was soon, however, found that the provisions of the Act were inadequate to the object it had in view, and as this had become evident to Mr. Dundas, from whom the measure had proceeded, he had the candour to state to the Directors the necessity of an enlargement of its provisions, and for that purpose he proposed to them in April 1800, that instead of confining the private commerce to the shipping of the Company, persons residing in India should be permitted to employ the shipping of that country as the channel of intercourse, and without restrictions as to the extent of tonnage or the periods of dispatch. This proposition was received by the Directors with alarm; and a special committee was appointed to draw up a report of their objections to it. A reference to that report will shew that all the arguments brought forward against the propositions now before the House were then urged with greater force and ability, than they are at this time stated, because that report was a work of very deliberate preparation, and embraced every thing that could be brought to bear upon the subject of the Company's trade with India. While the discussion was going on between Mr. Dundas and the Directors, lord Wellesley had found himself imperiously called upon by the state of things in India, to adopt and give currency to a measure similar to that which had been proposed by Mr. Dundas. The result of that proceeding was a display, in the port and in the market of London, of the commercial resources of India to an extent, in tonnage and in capital, beyond what the most sanguine advocate for the enlargement of the trade had represented. But notwithstanding the evidence of these facts, in (VOL. XXVI. ) support of the arguments of the governor general and of the minister for India, the Court of Directors persevered in their opposition, and it was not until 1802 that a compromised arrangement took place, by which the Company was prevailed upon to employ extra ships of Indian and of British construction for the accommodation of the private trade. Although that arrangement left the commerce of individuals subject to many restrictions and disadvantages, yet as the Company had still a term of twelve years in their exclusive charter, a concession of great importance was gained by it, and the spring which the trade received from its operation was such, that upon a comparison of the imports and exports by the Company and by private merchants in the period between 1802 and 1811, it is evident from the papers on the table, that the latter have had nearly an equal proportion of that trade; a circumstance the inore deserving of notice at this time, because the amount of the exports appears to have been doubled within the period of the charter. In the article of manufactured cottons there has been an increase so great as almost to surpass belief; the average of the annual export in that article between 1792 and 1796 having been only 7301., while the average between 1807 and 1811 was 96,980l. Mr. Sullivan said, that amongst the imports of the private trade from India, it appeared that in eighteen years, that is from 1793-4 to 1811-12, the article of indigo had produced in England a sum ex. ceeding fifteen million sterling; he observed, that the cultivation of indigo, in the provinces under the Bengal government, and the manufacture of it for the markets of Europe, had been the result of the active intelligence of the British merchants, sustained and encouraged by the fostering care of the Company, who advanced them money to carry on their speculation, taking a security upon the indigo as it was consigned to London, and receiving from the produce of the sales, payment of the money that had been advanced in India. A mode of public remittance to which he adverted with satisfaction, because it had proved favourable to the Company, and might at all times be resorted to with advantage. Mr. Sullivan mentioned another source of public remittance as likely to operate extensively and beneficially, if the Company should think proper to resort to it; (2 M) internal administration, and might be made certainly a more economical channel for the provision of an investment than Europeans could possibly be. he said, it appeared in the evidence upon the table, that some years ago the government of Madras had advertised to receive tenders for a given proportion of the inwestment that had been provided on ac- Mr. Sullivan passed some marked comcount of the Company, upon the condition pliments upon the lucid arrangement with that an advance of 12 per cent. should be which a member, who had spoken for paid upon the price the articles had cost the first time the night before (Mr. the Company, namely, 5 per cent. in com- Rickards), had conveyed his sentiments, mission to their agents, and 7 per cent. to but at the same time expressed his regret defray the risk and charges of transport to that he should have been led, by any parthe presidency. The witness who had tial circumstances that might have taken stated these facts was Mr. Dick, who had place in the part of India where he had been for some years at the head of the resided, to have passed an unfavourable commercial department under the govern-judgment upon the operation of the revement of Madras; that gentleman had fur- nue and judicial systems that had been ther informed the committee that the sub-established by lord Cornwallis in Bengal. scription was soon filled, and that the favourable result of this experiment had been proved by the sale of the articles in London, at a higher price than had been received for those of similar denominations procured by private agency in India. From this circumstance Mr. Sullivan inferred, that if the Company would prosecute that mode of disposing of their investments of piece goods, they would secure to themselves an advantageous remittance to England for their funds; confer important benefits upon the native manufacturers, who would by such means be assured of a steady demand for their work at the present improved standard of the manufacture; while at the same time they would render it unnecessary for the private trader to send European agents into the provinces; because the commercial servants of the Company are known to possess superior intelligence, and the allowance for commission, and for risk and charges, is as moderate as can be calculated; while the agency is in the hands of Europeans: that he hoped the time was fast approaching when the natives would take a large share in the general commerce of the country, and become efficient instruments, not only for the purpose of extending the trade, but in every department under the British administration; for though it had been necessary to act towards the natives with great distrust, while they were the only medium through which information could be obtained, we had now acquired such a knowledge of the revenue system of the country, and of its commercial resources, of the institutions of the Hindoos, and of the Mahomedan law, that the natives might, with advantage to our own interests, be gradually brought into action in every part of the Mr. Sullivan observed, that in an empire of such vast extent as that now under the British dominion in India, it was not possible that one uniform rule could be pursued; that which might be proper in one part and under particular circumstances, might be the reverse in another, where a different course of events may have produced opposite results. That thirty years had elapsed between the establishment of our power over the provinces of Bengal and the introduction of what is termed the permanent settlement under the adminis tration of lord Cornwallis; that during the whole of that period we had treated with the zemindars, whom we had found in possession of the country, as the lords of the soil-we had made arrangements with them for the revenue of the lands, and we had left them in the exercise of the internal administration; that after such a recognition of them, for such a length of time, it would have been as unjust as it would have been impolitic to have displaced them. That lord Cornwallis did not act as he had done from an ignorance of the real nature of their tenures, as must be evident from the discussions which took place at that time between him and lord Teignmouth. That he seemed to be well acquainted with the rights of the ryots to the occupation of the lands they cultivated, and that he had made it an express stipu lation in the settlements with the zemin dars, that they should execute written agreements to the ryots, specifying the proportion of the produce to which they should be entitled for their labour. Sullivan lamented to say, that he had not been able to trace the execution of those agreements, and that he greatly feared from the length of time that had elapsed, and the interest the zemindars had in pre Mr. waste, from the produce of which the cultivators are entitled in India to very large proportions. venting the village registers from being kept up, that it would now be impossible to apply a complete remedy to the evil in the Bengal provinces, but that he was nevertheless convinced the circumstances of the ryots were at this time much better than they had been before the introduction of lord Cornwallis' system; and that from his conscience he believed the hon. member to whom he alluded was mistaken in supposing the reverse to be the case on that side of India. With regard to those in the provinces which had but a few years ago fallen under our government in Guzerat, the opportunities of local knowledge possessed by the hon. member rendered the information he had obtained respecting their situation deserving of immediate attention, and Mr. Sullivan assured him and the House, that he would, without loss of time, make particular enquiry into the subject, and if the practice of taking from the ryots their proportion of the cotton crop at an arbitrary price should be found to have continued; Mr. Sullivan pledged himself that measures should be taken to remedy the evil, and to give to the ryots the unrestrained command over the produce of their industry. Mr. Sullivan took occasion from this to observe, that the culture of cotton was particularly favoured by this established usage with regard to waste land, for that the practice was to allow to the cultivator the whole of the produce during the first year, and that it did not become subject to the full rate of assessment until the sixth year; the stiff black soil which produces the best cotton requiring frequently twelve oxen to the plough for breaking it up. From this he inferred that every encouragement should be given to the cultivation and to the export of cotton, as tending to improve the circumstances, and to promote the industry of the natives of India, and to extend the commerce between that country and the United King-dom, while at the same time it could not fail to have the effect of rendering our manufacturers independent of foreign go. vernments for an article which may now be said to constitute the great staple of their industry and skill. tory all the evidence that had been adduced on the part of the Company, to shew the danger from a supposed influx of Europeans into India (a danger that could alone arise out of the unrestrained export trade from this country), and which would leave the speculators in an export trade exposed to all those predicted hazards of loss and disappointment, which another chain of the Company's evidence had been produced to maintain. Mr. Sullivan concluded by adverting to what had fallen from a right hon. gent. Mr. Sullivan proceeded to observe that (Mr. Tierney) who in advocating the conthe reasons which had operated in support tinuance of the Company's present system, of the zemindarry establishment in Ben- had gone the length to say, that the gal did not exist in the greater part of question resolved itself into a single point, the territories under the government of and that by confining the returning trade Madras, and that any attempt to intro- to the port of London every difficulty duce a similar settlement, where we had might be removed; a concession formed not found it established and had not sanc- indeed upon a former admission of the ditioned its continuance by our own recog-rectors, but which seemed to render nuganition of it, would be highly objectionable. That colonel Munro, whom the committee had heard with an equal admiration of his talents and of the extent of his information, had furnished the most convincing evidence of the happy results that had attended a settlement of the revenue with the ryots, without the intervention of zemindars or of any other intermediate description of persons. That in steadily pursuing that plan, during an administration of seven years over an extensive province that had been peculiarly oppressed under Mahomedan government, he had been able to raise the public revenue from 450,000l. a year to 700,000l. not only without increasing the pressure upon the ryots, but with a proportionate improvement in their circumstances and condition. The increase of the revenue having in a great measure proceeded from the cultivation of land that had been Mr. G. Smith recapitulated a variety of arguments, and stated a series of strong facts to show the dangers that would arise from the adoption of the third Resolution. Perhaps an argument more conclusive against the measure could not be urged, than the influx of adventurers into all parts of India, in consequence of the opening of the trade. There was no regulation, however wisely planned, and rigidly enforced, that could prevent the evils arising from such an influx. With regard to the advantages which had been so repeatedly dwelt on, as likely to result from the increased sale of British manufactures, caused by increased consumption in India, they had been all decidedly disposed of by the evidence which had been given at the bar of the House: but he would put it to the candour of the Committee, whether, on the other hand, there was no danger to British manufactures from throwing the trade open to the out-ports, by the consequent introduction into this country of the manufactures and commodities of India? He then went into a statement of the injuries which would be inflicted, both on the trade and credit of the East India Company, by the destruction of the sales annually held in spring and autumn, at the India-House, where public competition was fairly encouraged. He trusted that however unpopular the East India Company might be at the present moment, the House would not decide against the unanswered arguments and uncontradicted evidence produced in their behalf. Mr. Protheroe observed, that a right hon. gentleman (Mr. Tierney) who had last night advocated the interests of the Company, had dwelt more largely in sarcasm than argument; and as no one could doubt his ability, he would not take upon him to decide whether the right hon. gen. tleman had resorted to this mode of defence from the badness of the cause which he espoused. The right hon. gentleman had derided the philosophy of the outports; but if philosophy was demonstrated by patience, moderation, and a deference to legislative wisdom, he thought they had some claim to it. They had been also censured for compromising their rights, but they had only shewn that they were not so fond of right as to sacrifice expediency to it. The gentlemen of the out-ports looked forward to further concessions on future occasions; but they paid a due deference to the wisdom of his Majesty's government, by not insisting on more than it seemed expedient to give. The merchants of Bristol had fallen under the irony of the right hon. gentleman, but if the case were to be as he had represented it, their conduct on the present occasion was a proof of their disinterestedness and prudence. The right hon. gentleman had remarked on the want of evidence on the part of the out-ports, and seemed to consider the cause which he advocated as suffering some degree of injury; but it ap peared to him that this was of the greatest advantage to the Company, for they had the benefit of an ex parte statement, and there was certainly as much dogmatical statement on the one side as on the other. If there was any blame to be attached to the delegates from the out-ports, he took a large share to himself; for there was a large body of evidence ready, and among these witnesses there were some as distinguished characters as had appeared on behalf of the Company. Their not having produced the evidence, arose from a belief that this important measure could not be brought to a conclusion this session. There was nothing in the evidence of the East India Company which militated against a free trade-it applied more to the export than the import trade, and to the difficulty and danger, which might be obviated by regulations; and he trusted that they might have the assistance of the East India Company themselves to frame those regulations. Was it in the 19th century necessary to advocate a free trade against monopoly? When the French merchants were asked by their monarch, “What shall I do to increase your trade?" the answer was, "Let us alone!" And there was more practical commercial knowledge, and political wisdom, displayed in that short sentence, than in the 590 pages of evidence in favour of the East India Company. Was it necessary to persevere in the narrow system of the Tudors or the Stuarts? He would refer to the situation of the Company itself, trembling, on the verge of insolvency, for the necessity of a change. He would appeal to other countries enriched by the India trade, and would then suppose some cause which prevented the same effects from being produced here; nor could he hesitate to attribute them to the baleful influence of monopoly, and to the union of the characters of sovereign and merchant. These objections had been made at the last renewal, and with what accumulated force did they now press upon us! Since that period there had been extensive conquests in India, and South America had been opened to us, yet in the face of those events, the Company had not hesitated to tell us there was no room for an increase of trade, and that the contraction of commerce was in proportion to the extension of territory and owing to the natural influence of events. To give full effect to the energies of commerce, merchants should be allowed to enter into competi tion with merchants, and then political, moral, and religious improvements would follow. It might be said that these were mere general observations-he admitted this, but they were amply sufficient to shew the expediency and policy of opening the trade. He had most attentively considered the evidence of those truly respectable individuals who had been examined at their bar, and which, he thought, would be most beneficially applied, when the Bill was brought into parliament. He trusted, when that period arrived, he should see his Majesty's ministers, the advocates of the out-ports, and the friends of the East India Company, all united to give ful! effect to the intention of the legislature. Mr. Baring said, he had no interest in contending that the trade should be continued, as it had hitherto been, in the hands of the East India Company. In the very little he should address to the House, he was influenced by no other motive than a desire to serve the country. He should apply himself to the main question which was then before the Committee, namely, the expediency of opening the trade, without going at present into the various details connected with the subject. Much of what had been delivered in the course of the present discussion, was totally irrelevant to the question. Thus, the observations on the landed system of India, which had been so often introduced, had no connexion with the resolution then under consideration: whether that system was good or bad, it was not affected by this resolution. Neither was it at all necessary to inquire, whether the natives of India ploughed with oxen or horses. Such information might be very interesting to the board of agriculture, but had nothing to do with the subject immediately before them. The question resolved itself into these two points: whether the trade should be thrown open, without restraint, or with those restraints which the noble lord advised. This was not a question of private trade; because, at present, a private trade was allowed, and that almost to any extent; but whether it should be new modelled, and permitted under restraints and regulations which did not at present exist. The two points on which the question seemed to turn were, the allegation, on one side, that the commerce of the country would be increased by throwing open the trade; and the statement, on the other, that the private traders could send out their goods, as the system existed at present, but did not choose to do it-and that, if free access to India were given, then the East India Company could not answer for the effect which might be produced on sixty millions of inhabitants. This statement was corroborated by all those persons who had served the East India Company abroad, and whose practical knowledge of the subject gave additional weight to their evidence. Then, it was to be considered, whether the trade could be extended under different restraints; and, if so, whether any danger was to be apprehended to the internal safety of the country? Now, though he could not see the inevitable ruin of the Company, in consequence of these changes, yet, looking to the evidence, he thought it impossible that all the persons examined could have expressed an apprehension of danger, unless there was a just foundation for this feeling. This general authority weighed more with him, than any particular judgment or observation of his own. Besides, if, as had been repeatedly argued, the Company carried on a losing trade with India, and prospered only by their territorial possessions, as sovereigns, what wish could they have to retain this trade, except one that originated in the dread of danger to the country? Entertaining this opinion, that much danger might very justly be apprehended, the next question he would put was this, What benefit are we to derive, which is likely to compensate such a risk? The out-ports had not given this information: they had loaded the table with Petitions, boasting of the manner in which they would carry on the trade: they had declaimed a great deal; but, after they had called for a committee, after the Company had produced many witnesses, they did not think proper to call one, and, in fact, they proved nothing. Their moderation, in not bringing forward witnesses, was indeed exemplary. It would have been well if they had been equally moderate in their assertions. They appeared, however, most anxious to enter into the export trade to India, although it was proved, beyond a doubt, that the captains and pursers of the Company's ships, who took out manufactured goods, without paying freight, scarcely cleared any thing by their ventures. This circumstance shewed the great moderation, as well as prudence of the out-ports in not going into evidence. Indeed, the declaration of the hon. gentleman, (Mr. Protheroe) when he |