assigned his reason for not proceeding with displayed in the choice of their servants. evidence, meant neither more nor less than The good conduct of the Company in the this: "We, the out-ports, can muster so administration of India was generally acgreat a mass of votes in the House, that it knowledged. Let it be compared with is better to go to a division at once, than to that pursued generally by colonial governtrouble ourselves by adducing any arguments. No individual was sent out by ment." This also seemed a part of their them for the purpose of providing for moderation and prudence. An hon. gentle- him, however unfit in character and ability man (Mr. Sullivan), had recommended the for the situation to which he might be apculture of cotton in India, for the supply pointed. The civil officers of the Comof this country. Now, India never could pany were, in general, men of a very difsupply us with cotton. He did not mean ferent description; and there was no to say, that if the monopoly was given to stronger illustration of the evils of meddling that country, she could not produce a suf- with the Company's affairs than was to be ficiency. But it would be a most weak found in the interference on the part of his and vicious policy, to grant to any coun- Majesty's government with the appointtry the monopoly of growing the raw ar- ment of governor-general of India; by ticle for one of our principal manufactures. which it sometimes occurred, that an inBesides, it would be calling on the mer-dividual was placed in that high situation chaut to go five times the distance that a situation, on the due execution of the was necessary, to procure an article of a duties of which the happiness of so many worse quality than he could get elsewhere. millions of human beings depended, mereThe price of India cotton was about 10d. ly because he was in circumstances of such per lb.; but, in a time of peace, when embarrassment, that it was impossible for there was a free intercourse with the rest him to remain without utter ruin in this of the world, it would not be worth 6d. country. He owned that he considered Another article, the growth of India, and the late appointment to the government of which formed a principal trading commodi- Bengal as a reprehensible one; and he ty, was indigo. The whole of that article, was persuaded that the Company would at present consumed in Europe, was the not have acceded to it, had they not enproduction of India. The indigo manufac-tertained a false hope, that by so doing ture of that country had superseded that of the West Indies, Florida, and Carolina. It was impossible to extend this trade, unless the legislature compelled every man to wear a blue coat, instead of consulting his fancy, as was now customary. The im portation of piece goods might be increased; but he believed the gentlemen of Glasgow would not much like this branch of cominerce, for they had frequently petitioned the Treasury to restrict the introduction of that species of manufacture. An hon. gentleman (Mr. Sullivan) had alluded, not very fortunately, to the conduct pursued by the late lord Melville. When the out-ports applied to him, he expressed a willingness to open the trade as far as it could be done with safety. At that time, however, the country had a strong government. The clamour, was then as great as it is now, but the government boldly resisted it. The present government, however, fearing, perhaps, the number of votes which the out-ports, and the counties in connexion with them, could command, had given way to the clamour. The hon. gentleman then passed a very high eulogium on the discrimination which the Company

they should propitiate his Majesty's government in the contest in which they were about to be engaged with them. Adverting to the proposition of confining the free trade to the port of London, he admitted, that if it were granted at all, it ought to be granted to the outports as well. But that which parliament were called upon now to do was, to destroy that which was already established in London, for the purpose of raising it elsewhere; to destroy eight or nine millions of property already in existence, in order to give a chance for creating it where it did not exist; to produce in the one instance a positive loss, and in the other, only a right to make profit.

Mr. Sullivan said, he introduced the name of lord Melville, merely for the purpose of stating, that, after he had found from the experience of a few years, that the operation of the Act of 1793 was not adequate to the object, he had the manliness to come forward and admit it. He then proposed an extension of the trade, against which the Company argued as they argue now; but they did not convince the government. At the time lord Melville made this application, the mar

General Gascoyne replied to several statements in the speech delivered by a right hon. gentleman (Mr. Tierney) last night. On the subject of the probable trade from the out-ports, if it were true, as so confidently stated, that only two or three ships were likely to be sent out by those ports, what danger could be apprehended by the India Company, from the proposed opening of the trade? Then as to the apprehension of extravagant speculations of the opening of this trade, there could be no serious ground for any such apprehension, for, independently of the usual caution of mercantile speculators, the event of the speculations to South Ame

was in itself a thing that could not be looked to with complacency; but in considering the whole of the subject together he had come to much the same conclusion as his majesty's ministers, namely, that a qualified monopoly was the most advisable plan in the present state of India, and therefore he saw no serious objection to the extension of the China monopoly to twenty years. The general character of the Company was high in comparison with their competitors, as their trade was carried on in a manner much more liberal than private traders could adopt. The system which had enabled a nation of 10 or 12 millions of people to govern 60 millions with success, at a distance of 8,000 miles, mustrica bad served to teach a lesson calculated be in many respects a good one. It had insured to the people of India some of the best and greatest characters in this country for their governors; and had formed a check upon the government at home, so as to prevent the refuse of the country from being sent out. This must have had a great effect on the natives; and the utmost caution ought to be observed in producing a change. The character of the natives ought to be raised before a perfectly uncontrolled intercourse was allowed. Adverting, then, to the speech of an hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Ricards), which had made a great impression, he stated, that he had since looked into the documents, and found that they did not at all bear out the conclusions of the hon. gentleman, that the land revenue system was a bad one. The comparison, as had been justly observed, ought to be made between the state of the people of India now, and their former condition. There could be no doubt but it was considerably ameliorated. He was, however, in favour of extending the advantage of our commerce with that country to a certain degree; but he must confess, his opinion was in favour of confining the extension, for a short period at least, to London.

Mr. Preston impressively animadverted upon the state of society in India described by the hon. gentleman who spoke last, in which society the many were extremely depressed, and the few extremely advanced. This he conceived to be a state which ought not to exist in any well régulated government; and sufficiently illustrated the nature of the comfort and happiness communicated by the India Company to their subjects, on which ground this Company had been so very loudly panegyrized.

( VOL, XXVI. }

to prevent any extravagance on this point. Adverting to the speech of Mr. Ricards, which he thought entitled to particular attention, the hon. officer asked upon what ground certain gentlemen could feel themselves justified, after that speech, in so emphatically dwelling upon the slave trade, which his constituents of Liverpool praised only while it was sanctioned by the legislature, abandoning it as soon as the legislature, in its wisdom, thought proper to decree its abolition. But, admitting the most exaggerated description that had been sent forth with regard to the state of the slaves during the existence of the trade, what was that state compared to the situation of the Hindoos under the boasted government of the East India Company? From the evidence of Mr. Graham,* it appeared, that these people were wholly destitute of any comfort; that they resided in mud huts, without any article of accommodation but a wooden platter, worth something less than a farthing; without any furniture whatever, or any bed, but the bare ground; and, according to the deposition of colonel Monro,f ninety-nine out of every hundred of the Hindoo people were in that state, and hence it was that the conclusion was drawn as to the improbability of any increased demand for our manufactures in India. But with a people in such a state of misery, infinitely worse than any por tion of our colonial slaves were ever even alleged to be-in a worse state, in fact, than our gypsies, or any other description of our subjects, how could the glowing panegyrics upon the government of the India Company which the House had

Mr. Thomas Courtenay said a few words in explanation of some points alluded to by the honourable gentleman who spoke last.

heard be deemed even excusable? These law for protection-the Indians did. If, Hindoos had, he observed, been often said however, there was not danger in this into be immutable in their opinions, but novation, as some gentlemen would inwhile the absurdity of the assertion as to sinuate, why not grant an unrestrained the immutability of their disposition had trade? It was, he contended, from the been fully shewn, it was, he thought, quite stated periodical sales alone, that the Comevident that they must continue immuta-pany were enabled to answer their home ble in wretchedness, if left under the demands, amounting to four millions, and system of government at present and so if these regular sales were broken in upon, long administered by the India Company. the regular payments, and of course, the The honourable officer described the mode credit of the Company, must be destroyed. of smuggling carried on by the agents of The right of sending out free merchants, the India Company, which he could not too, which was now in the Company, but consider as wholly singular, particu- and which it was proposed to transfer larly in respect to the landing of what over to the government, would be producwere called presents, by which mode the tive of injurious effects to this counrevenue was defrauded in an extraordinary try, by extending ministerial political indegree, by these professedly zealous fluence. opponents of smuggling, who, to prevent the evil, would confine the India trade to the port of London; but he had no doubt that smuggling could be as effectually prevented, and the trade in every other Mr. Robert Thornton said, the only respect as well carried on in the ports of charge against the Company as far as he Liverpool, Bristol, and Hull, as in the ports could conceive it, was this, that they had of London. To prove this he knew that a governed India well. If the present mavariety of evidence could have been pro-terial change was to be thrust upon them, duced, and among others the comptrollers they could only say, they received it as it and collectors of the customs at the ports was given. He spoke here not as a prohe had stated, if the production of such prietor of East India stock, but as entirely evidence had not been prevented by the British and Asiatic. If the Company were delay which the India Company created not entitled to what they asked, let them through the number of witnesses they had not have it. India was the jewel upon brought forward, which witnesses although which the Tyrant of the Continent had, so very numerous, it was really not thought for years, been eagerly bent, and he had necessary, by the advocates for the out-not had it; on the contrary, it was now, ports, to rebut. more than at any former period, secure Mr. C. Grant, jun. denied that he had from his grasp. It was the East India stated the character and habits of the Company that had done this, while hardHindoos to be immutable. He only said,ly another object of his ambition had been that there was no great probability of an able successfully to oppose his efforts. immediate or rapid improvement or change The Company had secured India at great in their habits, manners and wants, such expence and peril; let this country think as some gentlemen had represented, or well before they, by adopting the present figured to themselves. That they had measure, endangered its safety. The been engaged in foreign armies, and still Company had governed India well, else remained the same in their own modes a handful of Europeans could never have and customs, only proved how trifling governed sixty millions of people. The was the prospect of their emerging out of natives had trusted the Company for their prejudices, and he had mentioned a while, and now the Company governed their religion as one of the strongest of them by affection more than by their army. those prejudices. He had defended the Mr. Hastings in his writings had said, that present system of government in India, there would be an instantaneous fall of the not as an hon. gentleman would represent, country of India, whenever a change of on the ground of the respect due to its opinion as to its government took place, antiquity, but on its merits. He had op- The House was now risking this instantaposed the Catholic system as being radi-neous fall by the present innovation, and cally bad; he supported the present system of government in India as being radically good. The Catholics did not look to the

let them recollect, that if they once lost India, they lost it for ever. He did not say, that the habits of the Indians were im