proportion of absentees was greatly increased-The number who had followed the seat of legislation and of government was necessarily great, and he was sorry to say that many who had not the same excuse daily added to those, who drew the sole sources of their support from the country which they deserted. The two heads which he adverted to would altogether diminish the general supply of Great Britain by the amount of half a million, while the duties on articles of consumption imported into Ireland, and the produce of your hearth and other duties, which he was prepared to contend could not, if you introduced, or rather attempted to introduce the taxes paid in Great Britain, any longer retain, would shew you that one million per annum of this expected revenue which was to flow into the imperial treasury, was not in fact any addition or increase to the general resources of the

state.

He wished to apply those illustrations not against any measure, which others might recommend, nor wishing to conceal from himself nor from the House, the efforts we should in future years be called upon to make. But he wished the sanguine calculators of increased revenue, who, be it observed, were not those persons best acquainted with the means or circumstances of Ireland, to pause before they jumped to their conclusion, and to bear in recollection, that all that might be added to a financial statement was not necessarily added to the revenue of Ireland, or to the general receipt and income of the empire. With respect to the contribution of Ireland of sixteen millions and a half, he who had to propose measures to parliament to provide, could not but contemplate with apprehension, such an increase of our proportion; but aware, as he must be, of the difficulties which it imposed upon himself, and not disguising from the committee what the pressure of it must ultimately be, it would still be unfair to draw any comparison from the last and the present year of extended military operations, and increased expenditure in every part of the world, which had occasioned to us so heavy a charge. He would not advert to what that calculation at the time of the Union might have been; the political circumstances which had since occurred could not then have been contemplated by any statesman; but this he would say, that unless the circumstances of the country were exceedingly altered,

unless there was a diminution of our expenditure, it was impossible for Ireland to go on at this rate of contribution. Parliament ought not to deceive itself, at least he would not lend himself to the deception. Did any man suppose that a country, the annual revenue of which was only 5 millions, could go on raising 16 millions per annum. Ireland must borrow to pay this contribution, and he who hoped that she could supply the rest by war taxes, as in Great Britain, or by supplies raised to any great extent within the year, must be ignorant indeed of the circumstances of the country which he was undertaking to administer. He at least would, until every other means of supply were exhausted, warn parliament against what even in a financial point of view, would be deemed fatal to the growing wealth, and to that which could not grow without wealth, the future productive revenue of the country -the exertions of Ireland,-and he spoke of a country, of the state of which, limited as his official experience had been, he was yet uninformed, the exertions of Ireland, had been great-Great Britain was to raise in the present year twelve hundred thousand pounds by new taxes-Ireland was called upon to provide more than half that sum by new duties-Ireland, a country bearing no comparison in point of natural or improved resources. In the year 1785, when Mr. Pitt proposed new taxes to the amount of 900,000l. per annum, it was deemed after the duration of the American contest, and the exhaustion of the national means, the greatest effort which any country had ever made to redeem the public difficulty-in less than 30 years, after a war of more protracted length, of at least undiminished sacrifice and increased expence, Ireland, the whole of whose annual income at that time did not exceed the duties that the British parliament then imposed, has within less than 30 years undertaken to provide six hundred thousand pounds, being in the last two years a contribution by fresh taxes, more than her whole income amounted to at the time that the commercial propositions were discussed. Let me not then be told that Ireland withholds herself in this instance, or that those who are responsible as her administration, endeavour to obtain for her a partial remission, which England has not received. We are making fair, and great, and generous exertions in the cause of Great Britain, a cause in the support of which we are not only pledged by compact, but

which our country is, I admit, bound to combat for by every principle of mutual interest and of common safety. If, said the right hon. gentleman, that part of the United Kingdom is not called upon to struggle beyond her strength, if her means are not outrun, trust me, she will yet prove to the empire a source of supply and of succour, such as the most sanguine mind has not, perhaps, contemplated. Do not attempt to anticipate too rashly her growing powers; if you anticipate you crush them. I wish my right hon. friends may feel with me; whether I or another (said the right hon. gentleman), may, in another year, fill that situation which now I have the honour to hold, I know not; but the legislature will, I hope, act upon the same principles; and I am confident that Great Britain will yet find in our increasing population, in the improved fertility of our soil, in our extended industry, and augmented means, that Ireland will in point of contribution, be enabled to make not less exertions than in other respects she has already made, or than the empire already owes to the loyalty, the hardihood, and the valour of her people. The right hon. gentleman concluded with moving the first Resolution relative to the additional duty on spirits.

Mr. Bankes rose principally for the pur. pose of apprizing the House that it was his intention, on some future occasion, to state some general opinions as to the system of Irish finance. As to the right hon. gentleman he had acknowledged that he had only followed the system of his predecessors. That system, however, appeared to him to be radically bad, and he thought that Ireland was in a state to which the system of taxation adopted in this country was peculiarly applicable. He thought that Ireland never would contribute its fair proportion, or have a suitable revenue until the present system was utterly abolished. He complained of the manner in which a return had been made, in consequence of a paper that he had moved for. What he wanted to know was, the estimated produce of the taxes lately imposed, as well as the real produce.

Mr. Wellesley Pole declared, that the situation of Ireland was not such as to admit of the introduction of the system of taxation adopted in this country. At the period of the Union, when the proportion was settled which the two countries should pay, the expences of the empire were but 25 milllions, whereas, now they

are 72 millions. It never could have been expected that Ireland would have been able to pay two-seventeenths of so large a sum as this, or that her resources to meet so great an increase of expenditure could at all keep pace with those of this country, If they endeavoured to make her do so they would make her burst like the ox in the fable, and render her wholly useless. He wished to see the treasures and debts of both countries consolidated.

He

Sir J. Newport also entirely disapproved of the sentiments of the hon. member (Mr. Bankes). The system of taxation adopted in this country, could not be applied to Ireland without producing the greatest confusion and distress. As to the property tax, he was convinced that no medium of fair assessment would be found, if that tax were introduced into Ireland. Instead of fair assessment, one class of persons would be enabled to throw all the burdens upon others, and not contribute their own proportion. He considered, that without the imposition of fresh taxes, the revenue would be more increased by an effectual control over the treasury. instanced the case of the legacy duty, which was so productive in this country, and yet produced little or nothing in Ireland. He had been obliged to propose penalties for not proving wills within a certain time, but although the penalties incurred were extremely great, the government never sued for them. Among the offenders were judges of the land, and even the counsel to the commissioners, and the frequency of the offence, and the largeness of the penalties incurred, were assigned as the reason for not suing for them. If there were so little pains taken in the collection of the revenue, it was not surprising that it should be unproductive. He then adverted to the case of a commissioner of the Stamp-office, who resigned the place, on finding that it was not a sinecure. He also stated, as a marked difference between the taxation in this country and in Ireland, that a great part of the revenue of this country was from foreign trade, whereas Ireland had very little foreign trade.

Mr. W. Pole thought he had reason to complain of the right hon. baronet's always stating abuses, as if they still existed, and no effort had been made to put an end to them; but it was in consequence of the regulations made while he was Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the commissioner to whom the right hon. baronet had alluded had resigned. Every

gentleman was aware, that the department of the stamps was most complicated, and the evils which were so great, were not to be corrected in a moment. That they were in a state of correction, the amendment of the revenue proved. It was another old assertion of the right hon. baronet, that the interference of the Castle was injurious to the collection of the revenue, but he was of opinion, that if the patronage were transferred to the Boards, the revenue would not be as well collected as at present. Sir J. Newport repeated his assertion that the legacy tax was not collected, and that penalties incurred by judges of the land and the counsel to the commissioners of the revenue, who ought to be cognizant of the law, were not enforced, adding that those penalties were incurred in the years 1809, 10, and 11.

Mr. Peel defied the right hon. baronet to produce one instance in which any defaulter whatever in the revenue had been screened from punishment by the Irish government upon the delinquency of such defaulter being brought under its consideration. With regard to the department of stamps, that question was, he understood, to be brought forward by the right hon. baronet as a separate motion, and as to the other departments of the revenue, while adequate measures were adopted rigorously to enforce the regulations mentioned by the right hon. gentleman (W. Pole) with a view to the collection of the revenue in future, directions had been very recently given by the Irish government to select the most conspicuous among the defaulters heretofore, in order that the most exemplary punishment should be inflicted.

Sir Henry Parnell observed, that there was a radical error in the system of appointment to offices in Ireland, the officers for the collection of the revenue being nominated by the Lord Lieutenant instead of being selected by the Treasury Board, under whom these officers were more immediately to act, which was the practice in this country. But this was not the only difference between the system of the two countries, the officers in all the departments under government being appointed by the Lord Lieutenant, instead of being selected by the Boards under which they were respectively to act; and who were of course most competent to make a proper choice. No view to patronage should, he thought, permit the continuance of such a deviation from the better practice of England.

(VOL. XXVI. )

Sir John Newport, in answer to the challenge of the Irish secretary (Mr. Peel), mentioned the case of Beauchamp Hill, which case was on the Journals of the House. This Mr. Hill was, it appeared, appointed to a higher office in the revenue after he had himself confessed that he had been in the habit of receiving bribes from those from whom it was his duty to collect the revenue; nay, he was appointed to the office of Inspector to check illicit distillation, after having confessedly received bribes from distillers to suppress the collection of the revenue, and the appointment was made in the very teeth of the law.

Mr. W. Fitzgerald observed, that no part of the present Irish government was responsible for the appointment mentioned by the right hon. baronet; nor need he add that such an appointment would not be made by any one now connected with the government of Ireland. It was, however, due to the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Foster) who made that appointment, to restate that right hon. gentleman's observation, when the appointment quoted was beforementioned, namely, that he (Mr. Foster) found the practice, confessed by Mr. Hill, so general, if not so universal among revenue officers, that if he were to exclude all those so receiving illegal fees, he should not be able to find any officers acquainted with business [a laugh and hear!]. The right hon. gentleman assured those who cheered, that he was not offering this as his argument. Further, the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Foster) stated, that the acceptance of such illegal fees arose out of the very inadequate salary allowed to revenue officers, which inade quacy he removed. Upon this point he (Mr. Fitzgerald) added, that it was proposed to introduce a clause into the new revenue act, imposing a permanent disqualification upon any officer so accepting fees, as the officer alluded to was stated to have done. Adverting to the animadversion of Mr. Bankes, the right hon. gentleman observed, that the assertion of the hon. gentleman, as to the inadequate contribution of Ireland to the expences of the empire, was rather unseasonable at a period when the Irish nation was about to contribute no less than sixteen millions to the common-stock of the year, and to pay in additional taxes 610,000l. which amounted to one-half of the addition to which rich and happy England was subjected. When it was recollected that Mr. (2 Q)

Mr. Croker would say one word as to the appointment of Mr. Beauchamp Hill, which was not in consequence of any political opinions or connections: he had taken fees, such as other officers had taken: he was the first to acquaint the government that he had taken the fees; and in consequence of his being a most able officer, he had been promoted.

The Resolutions were then agreed to, and the House resumed. On the question that the Report be received to-morrow,

Mr. Ponsonby expressed his surprize at such an extraordinary motion: first, because the generality of the members could have no notion that such a report would be brought up so very soon after the resolutions were adopted; and next, because it was proposed to bring it up on a day when it was quite unusual for the House to sit. Such a proceeding was, he believed, without precedent, and when the amount of the loan was considered, exceeding by far any sum ever before raised in England, at an interest, as he calculated, of about 51. 15s. per cent., when it was considered, that the sums borrowed within the year, in various ways, amounted to 50 millions, and that the whole of our general expence would reach to from 115 to 120 millions, he appealed to the right hon. gentleman whether it would be fit or decent to proceed with the precipitancy proposed upon such an important subject?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer thought that sufficient opportunity would offer for any discussion which the right hon. gentleman might think proper to bring for ward upon this subject. He would not, however, press the reading of the whole of the Resolutions to-morrow; but he hoped the right hon. gentleman would have no objection to the reading of the Resolutions respecting the loan to-morrow (if he did not disapprove of the contract), allowing the other resolutions to stand over until Monday.

said, oppose the grant of any supplies which ministers might think proper to require; but there was a difference between obstructing supplies and calling the attention of the House to the amount of those supplies, the manner in which they were raised, and the purposes to which they were applied. Ample opportunity for the consideration of such an extensive subject he thought peculiarly necessary. It was, indeed, highly desirable to examine and explain the financial state of the country, of which he believed the generality of the public were completely ignorant.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer observed, that the usual period for discussing the financial state of the country was upon the consideration of the Resolutions generally proposed towards the close of the session. The right hon. gentleman would, however, have many other opportunities for such discussion, if he thought proper to avail himself of them, in the progress of the Bills to be founded on the Resolutions agreed to by the Committee; but he trusted to the candour of the right hon. gentleman that he would not obstruct the ratification of the Resolutions respecting a loan, the terms of which were not at all objected to when first stated, and any obstruction to which might be productive of much public inconvenience.

Mr. Ponsonby said, he knew that there would be other stages for discussion, but thought the Report the most proper stage for debate.

The Speaker observed, that the regulat mode of proceeding would be to have the whole Report brought up to-morrow, and when it was brought up, to consider only that part of it which related to the Loan, postponing the consideration of the other parts, by ordering the Report to be taken into consideration on some future day.

The Report was then ordered to be received to-morrow.

EAST INDIA COMPANY'S AFFAIRS.] Lord Castlereagh moved the order of the day, to consider of the Resolutions, which, on the 5th instant, were reported from the Committee of the whole House, to whom it was referred to consider of the Affairs of the East India Company.

Sir John Newport rose, and declared he | thought it incumbent on the House at that late period of the session not to proceed further in a measure fraught either with incalculable good or evil, not only to this country, but to sixty millions of meu in India. The question was regarded unfortunately, merely as a commercial contest between the Company and the outports, whilst the ministers, acting as mediators, had produced a motley plan built upon compromise, but satisfactory to no party. An hon. director (Mr. Grant), to whose talents, information and integrity he was fully disposed to pay his tribute of respect, had declared that it was impossible the Company could execute the conditions involved in the third Resolution. When ever any plan was to be adopted in the nature of a contract, it was essentially ne cessary that the contracting parties should respectively be satisfied with the terms of the arrangement. One of the principal defects in the system contained and embodied in the Resolutions was, that no principle of sovereignty was expressed, and none of the primary obligations of all good government recognized. In a minute of council at Calcutta, in the year 1804, it was declared to be the paramount duty of those exercising sovereignty in India to exercise it for the benefit of the people in India, and to secure to them the full and secure enjoyment of their properties and labour. In the spirit of the declaration now alluded to he would say, that all arbitrary valuations were inconsistent with that duty, and that to deny the advantages of free competition was in effect to impose an arbitrary valuation. He could not, for his own part, admit the existence of any danger from the intercourse of the traders of this country with the natives of India, but thought it must tend greatly to their improvement and advantage. The agents of foreign merchants were admitted by the present regulations of the resident government, and he was too well persuaded of the character of British merchants to be under any apprehension from their general conduct. Never before had so vast and comprehensive a subject engaged the attention of parliament. The question was, whether the House would re-seat on the throne of Aurungzebe the chairman of the court of directors? or, whether by the free and honourable competition of British merchants, the industry of our Indian subjects should be excited, and the wants common

to them with the rest of the world gratified by the pursuits of an active commerce? At all events, deliberation, the most mature and cautious deliberation, was necessary in legislating for such mighty interests, and with this opinion influencing his judgment, he should move, with a view of inducing the House next session to abolish the monopoly altogether, that the further consideration of the Report be postponed to that day three months.

Lord Castlereagh said, that if he could at all persuade himself that what the right hon. baronet proposed would in any way assist the House in coming to a decision upon the subject, he would willingly adopt the amendment which he had proposed. He never had seen parliament come to any discussion of such importance more calmly, nor with greater prospect of arriving at a satisfactory decision than they had done on that question. It did appear to him, that with a view to the attainment of the object of the right hon. baronet, the course which he had just proposed was a mistaken one; for if he succeeded in making the House give up the prosecution of the subject in the stage in which it then was, he would leave the question precisely in that situation, which with regard to the object of the right hon. baronet was least desirable, as, when the question came again to be discussed, there would be no opportunity of referring to the preliminary decisions of parliament. Were he in the place of the right hon. baronet he would press the House to consider the Report, and even to have the Bill brought in, that there might be an opportunity of seeing how it was intended that the principles on which the Resolutions were framed should be applied. One object of the right hon. baronet, in wishing for the decision to be postponed was, that he expected he should be enabled to succeed in persuading the House to abolish the monopoly of the Company entirely, and to transfer at once to the great body of British merchants the trade to India. For his own part, he could not help thinking that such a measure would be a serious calamity. Unless the House came to a decision during that session, the great body of merchants would be tied up from making any exertions; and therefore he conceived that ministers would be guilty of a dereliction of their duty, if they postponed the decision of that important question. He hoped that next week he should be able to bring in the Bill.