he considered it something like a proud, the utmost value: he alluded to the gesituation for Great Britain, that the House nerally understood refusal of the Bank of should know, that the country and Europe England to give the loan contractors and should know, after the mighty exertions the public that accommodation which for we had made (without now entering into the last 25 years it had afforded, by the question of the fitness of the late war, making a proportion of advance on the or of the necessity for such expenses in instalments of the loan. He was very conducting), after the immense sacrifices glad that they had not consented to conof treasure to which the nation had sub-tinue this assistance; first, because, unless mitted, that it was at this moment, after a general wind-up of its concerns, in possession of a real unequivocal surplus of income beyond its expenditure of not less than two millions. He also agreed, that it was most fit that that surplus should be carried further than the existing amount of two millions-that it should be increased by the two modes, of reduced expenditure and additional taxes, to five millions. After the country should thus be placed in an attitude to command respect from all the world, he should feel most happy if, by economy, by the proposed regulations in the collection of the revenue, and lastly, by the operation of compound interest, those 5 millions were raised to 8 millions of surplus. That such should be the case, was not only of importance as affecting the national debt, but of infinitely more consequence in a moral point of view. It had been said, and said truly, that while we were without a surplus, the country was not in a situation to defend itself from sudden hostility with a surplus of two millions, it would have more power to assume a defensive position: 5 millions would still more strengthen it, and with a surplus of 8 millions, he should be glad to know if there was any nation of the world (though God forbid that he should insinuate that there existed at present any such design) which could make an attack upon Great Britain with the remotest chance of success. With respect to the loan, he, for one, was desirous of bearing his testimony of approbation to the whole plan this year adopted by ministers for raising a surplus: as far as his observation went, it was a plan that gave universal satisfaction, excepting to a few who, from a perversion of understanding, obvious enough and easily explained, had taken it into their heads that a loan of 30 millions would be much more advantageous to the nation than one of 12 millions. There was one part of the subject not adverted to, but upon which he was peculiarly sensitive; and though it appeared in itself trifling, it might produce results of he was much mistaken in his prophesy, the public would find that it could do without it with the utmost facility; and, secondly, because the transaction exhibited the corporation of the Bank of England in its true and proper colours. When he spoke of this corporation, he begged to be understood as having no reference to the conduct of particular individuals, because he had reason to know that there were among the directors some who had divided the court on this question, and had done their utmost to resist the determination of the majority. Of the acts of the corporation, however, he could only judge as they presented themselvns, and it appeared that it had peremptorily refused to continue the accommodation it had so long given. Yet the directors must forgive him for asserting, that there was something of littleness and low-mindedness, something of pique and spleen, in this refusal: it was an opposition to the government and the country, wholly unworthy of persons professing to take such an interest in the concerns of the nation. It was, perhaps, natural that the corporation should feel some degree of resentment against government, which, after 25 years of subserviency, had at last broken the fetters by which they had been so long and so injuriously bound; and he was not surprised that the directors now came forward and considered such an attempt as a resistance to their high and mighty authority. It was not to be wondered that four and twenty merchants, men engaged in the pursuit of gain, should be a little intoxicated with the power they had for a series of years exercised, and they might be allowed to feel a little chagrin and soreness that their power was now at an end. They had hitherto been anxiously consulted by ministers in all exigencies regarding the finances, and no doubt they thought it a little hard that those to whom (though not quite disin terestedly) they had given their advice and assistance, now turned against them. Perhaps even they might feel some portion of resentment at the apparent ingratitude of their protegés, the first lord of the treasury and the chancellor of the exchequer. It would be easy to go more at large into this point, but he would merely congratulate ministers that they had at length effected their emancipation from a species of tyranny as disgraceful to the government as injurious to the best interests of the country. With respect to the proposal for raising three millions by taxes, he was certainly disposed to think that this was not the most judicious moment for making the experiment: it would have been more advisable to have deferred it until next year, when it might be known whether the existing pressure upon and stagnation of trade had been removed, and after the operation of the plan suggested by the Bank committee had been ascertained. He took it for granted, that further opposition to the principle would be ineffectual; and as to the taxes themselves, every gentleman in a future stage would have an opportunity of expressing his opinion: at present he did not wish to commit himself upon a subject that he had not duly considered. He could not sit down without expressing his regret, that in consequence of the temporary indisposition of his right hon. friend (Mr. Tierney), he had been the first to reply to the chancellor of the exchequer: that indisposition, he was happy to add, was only temporary, and most probably his right hon. friend would be found at his post to-morrow. Mr. Manning was not much surprised at what had just fallen from the hon. gentleman on the subject of the Bank of England, though, considering the many opportunities he had sought to make attacks upon that establishment, it might have been spared upon the present occasion. The terms the hon. gentleman had employed, had certainly been far from courteous, but such at the same time as he was in the habit of employing. The compliment which had been attempted to the directors as individuals, he was not for one at all disposed to accept, when it was asserted that in their corporate capacity they had been guilty of a total dereliction of duty, and with acting in hostility to government from pique, spleen, and littleness of mind. He denied the charge most unequivocally. The hon. gentleman had talked of information he had received regarding the opinions and conduct of the directors in their court, on the subject of advances to the subscribers to the loan. Now, he could only have obtained his information from one of the members of the court, and that member could not have communicated it without a breach of duty and of confidence. On the part of himself and his colleagues, he would assert, that whatever had been the result of their deliberations, they had not been actuated by any thing like pique or animosity towards the existing government; they felt themselves superior to such paltry motives. The directors had been told, that they were not to be politicians: that they had nothing to do with the state of the country, or its interests; and that they ought to confine themselves to their books and banking business; but in the particular in which the hon. gentleman had blamed the Bank, he ought rather to have applauded it, at least if he wished to be consistent with himself. Why had they refused to grant the usual accommodation to the contractors, but that they might preserve that control over their issues for which the hon. gentleman and his friends had so long contended? If the directors wished to have this complete control, it was impossible that they could undertake to make the usual advances, without knowing the limits to which those advances might be required. Suppose, for instance, the loan had been 30 millions, and the Bank had been called upon to advance 9 or 10 millions. Suppose, too, an unfavourable harvest, or any other important external circumstance, over which they could have no influence, were to raise the price of gold to 47. 15s. or even to 4l. 10s. per oz., what then might not have been said against the Bank? Would not the hon. gentleman have been one of the first to charge the directors with imprudence for not preserving a due control over their issues, when they knew that a bill had passed to compel them, at a certain time and according to certain rates, to pay their notes in gold? It was due to the great establishment of which he was speaking, that it should stand right in the eyes of the House and of the country; and once for all, he repeated, that the conduct of the directors, on the particular question referred to, had nothing to do with the point now before the committee. He was quite willing to bear his share of responsibility for the decision at which that body had arrived, and he would not attempt to screen himself by any explanation of the motives by which he had been actuated. He assured the hon. gen tleman that it would be much more to his credit if in future he would abstain from employing such epithets as he had that night applied to the Bank of England, and such as those with which, week after week and day after day, he had fatigued the House. He again insisted, that public considerations only had influenced the Bank: at whatever conclusion the House might arrive, it was the anxious desire of the court of directors to comply strictly with the directions of parliament. or little-mindedness; he believed that they rather felt a pride in giving relief to the distresses of the country. The circumstance alluded to would, however, introduce greater independence of the Bank on the part of government. The observations made by the hon. member (Mr. Grenfell), respecting the advantages of placing the finances of the country in a situation that would command respect from other countries, indicated a truly British feeling. It had been frequently asserted, that ministers were deterred, from a sense of their weakness, from bringing forward the measures which were necessary for the security of the country. As he had opposed temporary expedients, he considered himself bound to give his support to a sound and vigorous system of finance. The measures adopted for the Mr. Pearse insisted that the attack made upon the Bank was wholly unwarranted and unprovoked. Whenever the conduct of the directors had been alluded to, the hon. gentleman had constantly indulged himself in a violent strain of invective, unjustified by any facts he was able to adduce. If this practice were continued, of course the House would pass its own judg-restoration of a metallic currency had his ment upon it. He would not throw back upon the hon. gentleman any of the gross terms he had used. Whether the hon. gentleman were actuated, in his uniform abuse of the Bank, by any feeling of pique or revenge, he could best deter mine. Mr. Mellish despised the compliments paid to him at the expense of his colleagues. The information on which the hon. member had spoken, must have been derived from a breach of confidence on the part of one of the directors, and if he knew who that gentleman was, he would be the first to move a vote of expulsion against him. He could assure the House, that the Bank had no pique against ministers, and he would add, that that body had performed their duty in a manner which entitled them to the thanks of the country. The hon. member for Portarlington (Mr. Ricardo), found fault with the Bank directors for not having attended sufficiently to the interests of the proprietors; the hon. member for Marlow (Mr. Grenfell), on the contrary, said, that the Bank had too many bonusses, and that the public ought to share in the profits. How were the directors to act so as to meet the wishes of both gentlemen. Mr. Grenfell said, that the information he had received had been communicated by a Bank director, in the open street, in the presence of three or four gentlemen, and without any intimation of secrecy being required. 1 Mr. Protheroe said, he was confident from the character of the Bank directors, that they were utterly incapable of pique entire concurrence. The measures for providing a real and effective sinking fund, he considered as founded both on political and financial justice. They were calculated to put the country in a situation to deter insult, and to prevent war. Sir J. Newport said, the Bank had been justified in using their discretion in adopting measures to enable them to resume cash payments. With respect to the measure proposed, he thought it was illadvised to add to the taxation of the country at present, as the people were not in a situation to bear additional bur thens. The tax on malt he understood, was to extend to Ireland and Scotland, while the tax on spirituous liquors was confined to this country. This would have the effect of injuring the morals, and lessening the comforts of the people of Ireland, as it would drive them to the use of spirits which would be cheap as compared with malt liquor so taxed. He hoped the right hon. gentleman would perceive the expediency of encouraging the use of malt liquor instead of spirits, as it was materially conducive to the morals and happiness of the people of Ireland. Mr. Bennet observed, that the country had some time ago been promised a sinking fund of 21 millions, and a total aboli tion of the war taxes. Now, however, it was found that they had only a sinking fund of two millions, and that seven millions of war taxes were still continued. They ought to remember the promises made in 1816. It was then said, that the revenue of the ensuing year would amount to 49 millions, whereas it turned out to be therefore passed, allowing the transfer of no more than 44,593,000l. The revenue English stock to Ireland. This act having of the last year had arisen to 48,416,000l. passed, there was such a remittance of but what security had the country money from Ireland as to raise the exnow that next year's revenue would not change between Dublin and London from decrease as that of the year 1816 had 8 to 14 per cent. If the English sinking done? In 1817, there was a deficiency of fund was to be reduced by 13 millions five millions in the promised amount of the and the Irish sinking fund was to remain revenue. How then could the promised untouched, it was obvious that the specurevenue of any future year be depended lation in the Irish funds would raise the on? Was this, he would ask, a time to sinking fund of that country in proportion impose new taxes on the people? He had to its stock, the consequence of which no hesitation in saying, that distress and would be, the raising the price of Irish misery, and crime resulting from this stock much above that of English stock. misery, were more prevalent now than He recommended it to the consideration they had been at any former period. In of the chancellor of the exchequer, wheevery district nothing was to be found ther the stock of both countries should but poverty and wretchedness. It was not be placed on an equal footing. He impossible to say what would be the re- was opposed to any new taxes, as he consult of this situation of things. They ceived this was not the proper time to immight force the taxation, but they must pose them. What prospect had the do it on one of two grounds-either they country now that the revenue would remust take from poverty what poverty main at it was, any more than they had could not spare, or else those taxes must in 1816? If they looked to the amount be made up from the poor-rates. As to of the revenue in January 1819, they the malt tax, he should give his opinion would find that the increase in the cusupon it when that question came to be toms was caused by a system of specudiscussed. If these new taxes were ulti-lation and overtrading, from which the mately carried, it must be because we were at the commencement of a new parliament. No member supporting such a measure at the close of a parliament could face his constituents without receiving that treatment which his conduct merited. country was now suffering and must continue to suffer for a considerable time. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that the Irish consolidated fund was sufficient to meet the immediate charges upon it in time of peace, and therefore it was unnecessary to apply the sinking fund of Mr. Mansfield said, that if new taxes that country to the purpose of a loan. It were necessary on account of the financial was necessary, after the contributions state of the country, and if the lower made by Ireland to allow her to recover orders were exhausted and depressed, the herself a little; besides, this trading in the House had a splendid opportunity of in- Irish funds could not be to a great troducing, not an income tax, but an ab- extent. When there was a loan of 30 solute property tax-a tax upon the millions here, no more than 44 millions fundholder and the landlord, a tax upon had been transferred to the Irish funds, themselves and upon the wealthier part therefore the present loan of 12 milof the community. He thought it infi- lions could not be supposed to affect nitely better for the House to say, those funds to any great extent. He "Come and lay on a modified property saw no grounds for taking a gloomy view tax of which we shall feel the burthen," of the revenue of the country: he had than to impose any other tax. But if stated on a former occasion that there gentlemen would not have a property tax, was a perceptible diminution in the reve he thought the taxes proposed were lenient. nue in the last quarter; but since that peMr. J. P. Grant said, if he understood riod he had received accounts of paythe right hon. gentleman rightly, the sink-ments having been made which, on the ing fund of Ireland was not to be made whole, turned the balance in favour of the applicable to the purpose of a loan. present year.. The sinking fund of that country was greater in proportion to its stock than the English sinking fund was. In conse quence of this, the commissioners found it difficult to invest their money; an act was Sir R. Wilson said, that if he wished to see a public commotion in this country, he would support, not only the resolutions before the House, but all the measures of his majesty's ministers. Though the chancellor of the exchequer conceived he was secure in his taxation by the holy alliance in front, and a strong army in his rear, the public creditor might, in the end, be willing to exchange these securities for the old system of the country. It was overwrought taxation in France which produced a convulsion, which lopped off two-thirds of the public debt, and though the successor of that system boasted that the guillotine was a mint and produced money by that expedient, he was at last paid in his own coin. When the French armies entered Prussia, their generals raised money where the Prussian financiers thought nothing was to be found, but the people repaid themselves by the punishment of their oppressors. It was possible to lay on taxes, but if they did not take warning from decrease, decline, and discontent, a convulsion would ensue. He attributed a great part of the expense thrown on the public, on account of the colonies, to improvident management. He had been attached to the corps which captured the Cape of Good Hope. They found that colony, with a well paid army of 4,000 men, an improving city embel lished with new works; a public treasury well filled and all this had been done by the Dutch governor Jansens, without a shilling from the mother country for several years, and while the trade of the colony had been intercepted; yet that colony was a constant drain on this country. In Ceylon a war was carried on, which would cost the country one million and a half. That morning advices had been received from Lower Canada, that the House of Assembly had refused to vote the supplies proposed to them stating, that the internal improvement of the province was the first duty of the legislature, and that "that duty would be most efficiently performed by reducing the overgrown bulk of the civil list of the province, the progress of which in every species of public improvement, seemed to have been tardy, in the direct proportion of the speed with which the expenses had accumulated." He was happy that the assembly had done so; if they had not, the expenditure of which they complained would have destroyed all independence, and not a word against the government would have been heard, except through the mouths of a "factious opposition." Feeling as he did the injustice and impolicy of the new taxes, he would object to every proposition respecting them. Mr. Calcraft said, the more he heard of the new taxes, the less he liked them, though he had but little doubt that if imposed, they would be paid; but they would be paid in part out of the poorrates. He was inclined to believe, that notwithstanding the untoward state of the country (which he could not help thinking would not long continue), the revenue would keep up to the 54 millions, at, which it was estimated by the finance committee. The moment however, which had been chosen for the imposition of new taxes, was, in his opinion, as unfavourable as could be pitched upon; and though he thought it would be desirable to have a sinking fund of 5 millions, he did not think the terms of the loan would have been more unfavourable, if there had been one of only two millions. On the subject of economy he had heard a great deal, but he was still of opinion, that great and important reductions might be made. He had not been able in the present session to discuss the army estimates, but he thought those of the present year as objectionable as the celebrated estimates of 1816, about which so much had been said at that time. If he lived until next year, and had a seat in the House, he would make it out to the satisfac tion of the House, that those estimates, were extravagantly large, and ought to be reduced. Mr. Alderman Wood opposed the new taxes, and said, he was surprised that the landed interest supported them. Though the tax on foreign wool had been held out as a bribe to them, that tax would not alter the price or prove any protection to the home growers. The malt tax would be a much greater loss than the wool duty could prove a gain to the agricul turist. Farms were now scarcely to be let at the old rents. In Suffolk, in the midst of a barley country, 700 acres could scarcely be let for 350l. a year, and in some parishes the poor-rates were a guinea in the pound. Mr. Ricardo said, he had already opposed the grant of 3 millions towards a sinking fund, because he did not wish to place such a fund at the mercy of ministers, who would take it whenever they thought that urgent necessity required it. He did not mean to say that it would be better with one set of ministers than another; for he looked upon it that all ministers would be anxious, on cases of what they conceived emergency, to appropriate it to |